Articulating back LCD

rawr · 03-09-2016, 02:26 PM

Left hinged screens are IMHO rather awkward to use compared to front-flipping screens.

I have a Canon SX50 'megazoom' and a old JVC video cam with left-hinging displays like the K-S2. When flipped out, their screens take your eye out of alignment with the lens when shooting, and can also make handling more clumsy, since the display, when flipped out, obstructs the position of the left hand around the camera body (particularly when you try and hold the camera from above).

Last edited by rawr; 03-09-2016 at 02:32 PM.

**monochrome** · 03-09-2016, 02:33 PM - **1 Like**

That's why Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended.

Kunzite · 03-09-2016, 03:26 PM

They have a point

I think I will like this system better, and I would use it more often than a point&shoot-ish system. See, I'm a lazy person and I don't want to be forced to flip and twist and tilt just to take a look from above; then all the other way around when I'm done (because you can't just leave the LCD hanging besides the camera, can you?). And the "LCD protection" feature is what I'd call flip and twist and flip again - even for a mere setting in the menu.
Combine the simpler operation with following the lens' optical path instead some virtual parallel to it, and we have a winner.
YMMV.

stevebrot · 03-10-2016, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by scottmasterton

I use a K-S2 and the articulating screen is enormously useful,

Now imagine something similar where the screen remains true to the optical axis

Steve

scottmasterton · 07-31-2016, 03:39 PM

I thought rather than a quick reply I'd ponder on this for a while but my imagination has yet to find any scenario in which I feel that this would be beneficial...

Barry Pearson · 07-31-2016, 10:53 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

I've noticed that when a camera has an extra feature, I automatically start looking for opportunities to use it. And "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

So, as well as all the good reasons identified so far, I suspect I will take photos that I might not even have considered without that screen, just "because I can". So I don't really know all the ways I will use it, but it will be interesting to find out!

I've used the articulated LCD a lot in the 3 months that I've had the K-1. It is the first time I've had an articulated LCD on a camera. but now I can't imagine buying a general-purpose system camera without one.

Whenever I flip out the LCD, I pretty-well always then go on to use the extra flexibility offered by the 4 legs to get the screen into an ideal position.

Here are some uses I've made of it; (links to photos I've uploaded earlier to DPReview):

I've used it a lot to take ground-level photos with Live View. Typically to get a more dramatic effect, but I've also used it to shoot under barriers.

Static displays of old aircraft

Portraits of re-enactors at an airshow

Details of a modern helicopter

I've used it to shoot over the heads of a crowd, again using Live View:

Bottom 3 photos on this page

Typically, when using the camera on a tripod, I use the articulation when using the "Info" or "Menu" buttons. I've also used it as a passenger in a car with the K-1 on my lap reading the GPS coordinates and elevation.

The hinged screen is necessary. The extra flexibility of the 4 legs is a bonus, but I always happen to use it.

scottmasterton · 08-01-2016, 02:35 AM

Hi Barry, thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong, I love the articulating screen, I use the one on my KS2 all the time and I wouldn't go back to a camera without one, but all of the things you describe can be done with the one on the KS2 exactly the same, I cannot see any advantage as one commentor said to having it in the optical axis.

I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended".

**Rondec** · 08-01-2016, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by scottmasterton

Hi Barry, thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong, I love the articulating screen, I use the one on my KS2 all the time and I wouldn't go back to a camera without one, but all of the things you describe can be done with the one on the KS2 exactly the same, I cannot see any advantage as one commentor said to having it in the optical axis.

I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended".

I thought the question was about whether people need an articulated screen at all, not about the style of it. My impression with the K-1 was that Pentax thought that this version was a little sturdier compared to the one on the K-S2 and gave adequate flexibility of movement. Old school photographers say that they never use the rear LCD and can't imagine using an articulated screen of any kind.

I find it handy in certain situations, but as to the specific type, it is unimportant to me.

Not a Number · 08-01-2016, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by scottmasterton

I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended".

The optical path comment is in regards to the screen of the K-1 only. When taken it this context there is no contradiction.

Barry Pearson · 08-01-2016, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by scottmasterton

Hi Barry, thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong, I love the articulating screen, I use the one on my KS2 all the time and I wouldn't go back to a camera without one, but all of the things you describe can be done with the one on the KS2 exactly the same, I cannot see any advantage as one commentor said to having it in the optical axis.

I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended".

I've never understood what is meant by "the screen stays in the optical path when extended".

The K-1 LCD doesn't!

Kunzite · 08-01-2016, 05:08 AM

It doesn't, indeed. But it's "aligned with the optical axis"

Barry Pearson · 08-01-2016, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

It doesn't, indeed. But it's "aligned with the optical axis"

What does that mean? Please explain in simple English. (Not Romanian, which won't help me at all!)

For example, if I pull the LCD back about 1 centimeter, I can then move it to left or right, or even up or down, keeping it parallel, perhaps half a centimeter. So the center of the LCD isn't aligned with the optical axis.

Or I can flip up the LCD so that is is horizontal, so that the optical axis passes under it. Or combine these.

Kunzite · 08-01-2016, 07:48 AM

It means precisely what you see when you're moving it one way or another.

This is not about a precise, two axis alignment. But, you are looking more or less from "behind the lens", or as if the lens' projected image is twisted in one direction or another (e.g. just like with a waist level finder, if the LCD is in its horizontal position - then, you can say there's alignment with the vertical plane containing the lens axis). If you're following the subject through the LCD, that makes for a more natural view.

If you want to see the difference, look at a flip&twist LCD. There, the LCD will sit practically next to the camera.

reh321 · 08-01-2016, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

What does that mean? Please explain in simple English. (Not Romanian, which won't help me at all!)

For example, if I pull the LCD back about 1 centimeter, I can then move it to left or right, or even up or down, keeping it parallel, perhaps half a centimeter. So the center of the LCD isn't aligned with the optical axis.

Or I can flip up the LCD so that is is horizontal, so that the optical axis passes under it. Or combine these.

Compare the K-1 LCD with the K-70 LCD. The K-70 LCD is a typical articulated unit; to get it facing upward, you have to rotate it on the vertical axis before you can rotate it on the horizontal axis to make it face upward. The result is that it can face upward only if it is completely to the side of the camera, completely sticking out from the side. With the K-1 system, the LCD may be a few degrees away from the optical axis, but it is still basically behind the lens, not completely off to the side.

added: Under the theory that "a picture is a thousand words", here is a picture from the Ricoh Japanese web-site showing the only position in which a K-70 LCD can be facing upward

deus ursus · 08-03-2016, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

I did my best in-camera photo composing when looking down at the viewing screen of a twin-lens-reflex medium-format film camera. Now if I could only make the image on the K1 screen upside down and reversed I'd be in heaven.

I'm sure there's a firmware upgrade for that lurking somewhere, waiting to be released ...

08-01-2016, 02:38 PM	#44
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Barry Pearson What does that mean? Please explain in simple English. (Not Romanian, which won't help me at all!) For example, if I pull the LCD back about 1 centimeter, I can then move it to left or right, or even up or down, keeping it parallel, perhaps half a centimeter. So the center of the LCD isn't aligned with the optical axis. Or I can flip up the LCD so that is is horizontal, so that the optical axis passes under it. Or combine these. Compare the K-1 LCD with the K-70 LCD. The K-70 LCD is a typical articulated unit; to get it facing upward, you have to rotate it on the vertical axis before you can rotate it on the horizontal axis to make it face upward. The result is that it can face upward only if it is completely to the side of the camera, completely sticking out from the side. With the K-1 system, the LCD may be a few degrees away from the optical axis, but it is still basically behind the lens, not completely off to the side. added: Under the theory that "a picture is a thousand words", here is a picture from the Ricoh Japanese web-site showing the only position in which a K-70 LCD can be facing upward Last edited by reh321; 08-01-2016 at 05:05 PM. Reason: add image

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03-09-2016, 02:26 PM	#31
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Left hinged screens are IMHO rather awkward to use compared to front-flipping screens. I have a Canon SX50 'megazoom' and a old JVC video cam with left-hinging displays like the K-S2. When flipped out, their screens take your eye out of alignment with the lens when shooting, and can also make handling more clumsy, since the display, when flipped out, obstructs the position of the left hand around the camera body (particularly when you try and hold the camera from above). Last edited by rawr; 03-09-2016 at 02:32 PM.

03-09-2016, 02:33 PM - 1 Like	#32
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	That's why Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended.

03-09-2016, 03:26 PM	#33
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	They have a point I think I will like this system better, and I would use it more often than a point&shoot-ish system. See, I'm a lazy person and I don't want to be forced to flip and twist and tilt just to take a look from above; then all the other way around when I'm done (because you can't just leave the LCD hanging besides the camera, can you?). And the "LCD protection" feature is what I'd call flip and twist and flip again - even for a mere setting in the menu. Combine the simpler operation with following the lens' optical path instead some virtual parallel to it, and we have a winner. YMMV.

03-10-2016, 12:07 PM	#34
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by scottmasterton I use a K-S2 and the articulating screen is enormously useful, Now imagine something similar where the screen remains true to the optical axis Steve

07-31-2016, 03:39 PM	#35
scottmasterton Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Scotland. Posts: 25	I thought rather than a quick reply I'd ponder on this for a while but my imagination has yet to find any scenario in which I feel that this would be beneficial...

07-31-2016, 10:53 PM - 1 Like	#36
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Barry Pearson I've noticed that when a camera has an extra feature, I automatically start looking for opportunities to use it. And "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail". So, as well as all the good reasons identified so far, I suspect I will take photos that I might not even have considered without that screen, just "because I can". So I don't really know all the ways I will use it, but it will be interesting to find out! I've used the articulated LCD a lot in the 3 months that I've had the K-1. It is the first time I've had an articulated LCD on a camera. but now I can't imagine buying a general-purpose system camera without one. Whenever I flip out the LCD, I pretty-well always then go on to use the extra flexibility offered by the 4 legs to get the screen into an ideal position. Here are some uses I've made of it; (links to photos I've uploaded earlier to DPReview): I've used it a lot to take ground-level photos with Live View. Typically to get a more dramatic effect, but I've also used it to shoot under barriers. Static displays of old aircraft Portraits of re-enactors at an airshow Details of a modern helicopter I've used it to shoot over the heads of a crowd, again using Live View: Bottom 3 photos on this page Typically, when using the camera on a tripod, I use the articulation when using the "Info" or "Menu" buttons. I've also used it as a passenger in a car with the K-1 on my lap reading the GPS coordinates and elevation. The hinged screen is necessary. The extra flexibility of the 4 legs is a bonus, but I always happen to use it.

08-01-2016, 02:35 AM	#37
scottmasterton Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Scotland. Posts: 25	Hi Barry, thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong, I love the articulating screen, I use the one on my KS2 all the time and I wouldn't go back to a camera without one, but all of the things you describe can be done with the one on the KS2 exactly the same, I cannot see any advantage as one commentor said to having it in the optical axis. I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended".

08-01-2016, 03:20 AM	#38
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,662	Originally posted by scottmasterton Hi Barry, thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong, I love the articulating screen, I use the one on my KS2 all the time and I wouldn't go back to a camera without one, but all of the things you describe can be done with the one on the KS2 exactly the same, I cannot see any advantage as one commentor said to having it in the optical axis. I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended". I thought the question was about whether people need an articulated screen at all, not about the style of it. My impression with the K-1 was that Pentax thought that this version was a little sturdier compared to the one on the K-S2 and gave adequate flexibility of movement. Old school photographers say that they never use the rear LCD and can't imagine using an articulated screen of any kind. I find it handy in certain situations, but as to the specific type, it is unimportant to me.

08-01-2016, 03:53 AM	#39
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by scottmasterton I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended". The optical path comment is in regards to the screen of the K-1 only. When taken it this context there is no contradiction.

08-01-2016, 04:55 AM	#40
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by scottmasterton Hi Barry, thanks for the reply, don't get me wrong, I love the articulating screen, I use the one on my KS2 all the time and I wouldn't go back to a camera without one, but all of the things you describe can be done with the one on the KS2 exactly the same, I cannot see any advantage as one commentor said to having it in the optical axis. I'm about to buy a K70 which has the previous style of screen, the same as the KS2, which appears to be contrary to what another poster said about "Pentax emphasizes that the screen stays in the optical path when extended". I've never understood what is meant by "the screen stays in the optical path when extended". The K-1 LCD doesn't!

08-01-2016, 05:08 AM	#41
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	It doesn't, indeed. But it's "aligned with the optical axis"

08-01-2016, 07:04 AM	#42
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Kunzite It doesn't, indeed. But it's "aligned with the optical axis" What does that mean? Please explain in simple English. (Not Romanian, which won't help me at all!) For example, if I pull the LCD back about 1 centimeter, I can then move it to left or right, or even up or down, keeping it parallel, perhaps half a centimeter. So the center of the LCD isn't aligned with the optical axis. Or I can flip up the LCD so that is is horizontal, so that the optical axis passes under it. Or combine these.

08-01-2016, 07:48 AM	#43
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	It means precisely what you see when you're moving it one way or another. This is not about a precise, two axis alignment. But, you are looking more or less from "behind the lens", or as if the lens' projected image is twisted in one direction or another (e.g. just like with a waist level finder, if the LCD is in its horizontal position - then, you can say there's alignment with the vertical plane containing the lens axis). If you're following the subject through the LCD, that makes for a more natural view. If you want to see the difference, look at a flip&twist LCD. There, the LCD will sit practically next to the camera.

08-03-2016, 02:20 AM	#45
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by Fenwoodian I did my best in-camera photo composing when looking down at the viewing screen of a twin-lens-reflex medium-format film camera. Now if I could only make the image on the K1 screen upside down and reversed I'd be in heaven. I'm sure there's a firmware upgrade for that lurking somewhere, waiting to be released ...