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03-18-2016, 02:22 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They've already lowered the pre-order price $500 in the USA, to $1,800. How low do you want them to go?

Since it will ship very soon we'll know very soon. We should hope - understanding that ILIS has no advantage over IBIS at less than 300mm - Pentax has invested the cost savings in other improvements to make a lens better than others at the $1.800US price point.
Reding what you said, that under 300mm, In Lens Stabilization has no advantage over SR, I was thinking that my photo technic is somehow wrong. Than, I had check your Album and Gallery. No airplane over your head, no birds in flight, not even a tall building from bellow. And I understand. Yes, in horizontal position, or at small angles around, a long lens is easy to control.

But try this with a 3 pounds or more lens on the camera over your head. And not one shot, but many. If you will use average or center weighted exposure, the sky will make image to dark, and compensating in PP will bring noise. I you use spot exposure, and you miss the target, because the image is dancing in the viewfinder, and on every sensor on the way, the same thing will happened. And the AF... If the your target is not over an AF point in that moment, another wasted shot. And when the target is as big as an airplane at over 35,000 feet, this is happening very easy.

Yes, for normal photographer, SR is enough. But for guys like me, is a pain in the a.., at any focal length over 100mm. Not useless, because is making his job, even with a 500mm lens, but a pain.

I could forget. Some people will tell me that for this type of picture I must use a tripod. I have 2 tripods. One is very high, 1.92 meters. I have bought it thinking that at my height, 1.80 meter, will be just good to keep the camera over my head. But no, is not good. Is very big even folded, is 11 pounds heavy, and still is not stable enough. And impossible to use for fast targets, like birds. Is better and easier handheld. And, anyway, I don't have a problem to carry 6 pounds, a camera and 2 lenses, every day, but not the high tripod.

So, everything is about perspective.


Last edited by JimmyDranox; 03-18-2016 at 02:39 PM.
03-18-2016, 03:40 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Reding what you said, that under 300mm, In Lens Stabilization has no advantage over SR, I was thinking that my photo technic is somehow wrong. Than, I had check your Album and Gallery. No airplane over your head, no birds in flight, not even a tall building from bellow. And I understand. Yes, in horizontal position, or at small angles around, a long lens is easy to control.

But try this with a 3 pounds or more lens on the camera over your head. And not one shot, but many. If you will use average or center weighted exposure, the sky will make image to dark, and compensating in PP will bring noise. I you use spot exposure, and you miss the target, because the image is dancing in the viewfinder, and on every sensor on the way, the same thing will happened. And the AF... If the your target is not over an AF point in that moment, another wasted shot. And when the target is as big as an airplane at over 35,000 feet, this is happening very easy.

Yes, for normal photographer, SR is enough. But for guys like me, is a pain in the a.., at any focal length over 100mm. Not useless, because is making his job, even with a 500mm lens, but a pain.

I could forget. Some people will tell me that for this type of picture I must use a tripod. I have 2 tripods. One is very high, 1.92 meters. I have bought it thinking that at my height, 1.80 meter, will be just good to keep the camera over my head. But no, is not good. Is very big even folded, is 11 pounds heavy, and still is not stable enough. And impossible to use for fast targets, like birds. Is better and easier handheld. And, anyway, I don't have a problem to carry 6 pounds, a camera and 2 lenses, every day, but not the high tripod.

So, everything is about perspective.
I don't think you are wrong at all - for your uses. in my most humble opinion you use case is unusual. How many long-lens shooters spend a significant portion of their time shooting airplanes? We've already conceded the tracking AF isn't the best for crossing BIF shooting.

But just because your use case suggests ILIS is superior particularly, it is disingenuous to set up that Strawman and then knock Pentax because the core technology is IBIS generally and then suggest the lens is overpriced lacking OIS.

I think I have I directly suggested long lenses usually benefit from ILIS. I've directly suggested Pentax might offer the ability to select one or the other for long lenses, so I essentially agreed with you.

I arbitrarily selected 300mm as 'long'. So let's use 200mm. Do you shoot BIF with a 70~200? How about airplanes? A 70~200 is shot horizontal most of the time (I know - someone will chime in and contradict me).

Suggesting the D-FA* 70~200 is inferior or overpriced because it doesn't have OIS is an empty argument. It doesn't need OIS.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-18-2016 at 03:50 PM.
03-18-2016, 04:48 PM   #48
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I did shot birds in flight with Sigma and Tamron 70-200. You can look at my Gallery.

I have never said or suggest that D FA 70-200 is inferior. Maybe, and I'm waiting to see some 1/1 shots with this lens at f/2.8, maybe is quite superior to other lenses in this range. Maybe is the best lens ever. For me, is just harder to use, and at this price range I was expecting an OIS lens. In fact, I was waiting for 2 OIS lenses, including the 150-450, and I was disappointed when these lenses was announced, one year ago, that none of it will have OIS. But this is already history. Some people will gladly buy these lenses at any price, others will skip it, anybody will find a way, only Ricoh will face the consequences, good or bad, of their decisions.
03-18-2016, 05:40 PM   #49
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OK. I don't think it is overpriced either way.

03-18-2016, 06:59 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK. I don't think it is overpriced either way.

Still a months pay here in the UK at 1850 and the UK retail price may even rise if the Pound continues it's pre-Brexit slump.

Economic times are fragile to put it mildly, globally not just the UK. As much as I really want the K-1 and this 70-200, this year I'm very cautious about spending on big ticket items. It's all great until I remember I've got three kids. Priorities kick in. Mend and make do will be 2016's theme . . . and 2017's . . . and likely 2018's.

What was once not that much, suddenly becomes a lot.
03-18-2016, 08:01 PM   #51
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It might be too much money but that doesn't mean it is expensive. *


* Me too. A strong dollar may make it less expensive but all together they're still too much money.
03-19-2016, 03:54 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It might be too much money but that doesn't mean it is expensive. *


* Me too. A strong dollar may make it less expensive but all together they're still too much money.
It really depends on what you use it for, not? If you are a wedding photographer and need fast, silent auto focus in this range on a full frame camera, this is the only lens available other than a used Sigma. On the other hand, if you are a hobbyist, it is a lot of money to spend (although birders don't blink at spending twice this on their long lenses).

I don't know that I will ever own one -- not necessarily due to cost. It is just such a big lens and while my wife uses 200mm f2.8 shooting weddings, she felt like the 70-200 zooms were too big and went with the DA *200 instead.
03-19-2016, 04:08 AM   #53
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I have the last of the Sigmas, and I've found it a very good lens for what it is. I wasn't thinking of getting the new pentax but it's funny how things change. My wifes bucket list includes a trip to Africa and a couple of trecks to see the Gorillas (next year)....... and a 70-200 lens would be one of the two I'd probally use there for that..... and $1,500 on top of the sale of my Sigma could be worth while for the weather resistance etc..... and the upgrade cost is nothing compared to the trip cost.

03-19-2016, 06:16 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It really depends on what you use it for, not? If you are a wedding photographer and need fast, silent auto focus in this range on a full frame camera, this is the only lens available other than a used Sigma. On the other hand, if you are a hobbyist, it is a lot of money to spend (although birders don't blink at spending twice this on their long lenses).

I don't know that I will ever own one -- not necessarily due to cost. It is just such a big lens and while my wife uses 200mm f2.8 shooting weddings, she felt like the 70-200 zooms were too big and went with the DA *200 instead.
Of course! I spend tens of thousands of dollars on software tools for my business. They're insanely expensive for what I get.

But they're not 'too much money' in that context.

I could - and probably should - easily sell some lenses, maybe most of or all of my lenses. I could buy the K-1 and this and the 24~70, keep the three Princesses and have rational, modern equipment. But that's not what I want. Adding this to what I have is a lot of money.
03-19-2016, 06:58 AM   #55
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I will say that I would never pre-order a lens unless I desperately needed it and if I had questions, I would rent it first.

If you wait six months to buy a lens, even if you eventually sell it, you won't take a huge beating on the resale value, whereas if you buy in the initial wave, you'll take a bigger beating on resale price. Of course, I don't buy lenses with the intention to resell them, but I don't really want to pay an early adopter tax if I don't have to, either.
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