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03-29-2016, 01:51 PM   #76
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Any time we try to illustrate an analogy win a political figure, half the people reading it think, "What is he going on about?" and the other half think, "What is he going on about?"

03-29-2016, 03:33 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wild Mark Quote
My point was missed. I actually don't get what Mothballs was going on about so I said 'please explain'. Then I realised that no one here except a few Aussies would get it (viz: 'Please explain?') so I explained 'please explain?'. Then I thought the Pauline Hanson reference might still be a little too eccentric so I drew parallels with Donald Trump to provide a more universal appreciation. And yes, neither person has a clue really of reality!

My point was I do not have a clue what Mothballs is trying to say. Oh well, I'll park my humour from now on (please don't like this post for this reason )
A used Pentax SMC 50mm f1.2, lacking auto focus and aperture communication, should realistically not cost what it's demanding on eBay at this point. Not saying it doesn't have value, but where it's sitting on average... No.

Also, the price is indicative of a demand. Would be foolish to not jump on that. Losing revenue potential to used sales because of no current production equivalent is not exactly smart.
03-29-2016, 04:22 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
It's worth reading this blog series and the comments sections too . . .

Lens Articles ? YANNICK KHONG
Petapixel ran that article 2 weeks ago. Comments section rips it to shreds.

The Problem with Modern Lenses
03-29-2016, 04:37 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mothballs Quote
A used Pentax SMC 50mm f1.2, lacking auto focus and aperture communication, should realistically not cost what it's demanding on eBay at this point. Not saying it doesn't have value, but where it's sitting on average... No.

Also, the price is indicative of a demand. Would be foolish to not jump on that. Losing revenue potential to used sales because of no current production equivalent is not exactly smart.
The A50/1.2's are certainly clearing between $550 and $600; the K's run about $150 less. Those prices are normal over the last couple years since rumors of K-1 became a little more real. They're maybe 35% higher than 3 years ago. I don't think they're particularly high for a scarce lens, and certainly no threat to Pentax. A modern 50/1.2 with all the trimmings could cost three or four times the used market, which could keep virtually all the legacy buyers out of the new lens.

03-29-2016, 04:43 PM - 1 Like   #80
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Except in the unlikely event that they did another run of A50-1.2's. Why would they? They need only take one look at Samyang's ability to sell Pentax A-compatible manual focus lenses and think "Why the hell not?"

That would certainly burst the bubble. Then we could have screaming troll fights about whether the new fifty with HD coatings was as good as, better, or worse than the old SMC...
03-29-2016, 05:07 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Except in the unlikely event that they did another run of A50-1.2's. Why would they? They need only take one look at Samyang's ability to sell Pentax A-compatible manual focus lenses and think "Why the hell not?"

That would certainly burst the bubble. Then we could have screaming troll fights about whether the new fifty with HD coatings was as good as, better, or worse than the old SMC...
They still couldn't sell an HD A50/1.2 low enough to affect the clearing prices of the legacy lenses. It isn't a bubble. People aren't buying them today to flip next month at a 25% profit. They're only $600 tops and they don't actually SELL above that. Some crazy Korean Buy It Now trolls might list higher, or Kevin, but that's a wish and a prayer.

The Samyang UMC 50/1.4 is $369. The Pentax SMC A50/1.4 is $125. I think the price ratio would hold 2x for 1.2 lenses new vs. legacy, at least, so $1,200 or more for a manual focus, manual aperture A50mm f/1.2 re-run. $1,800 if built to Limited or * standards.

If we want to talk stupid high clearing prices, let's talk A*85/1.4 with hood and caps.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-29-2016 at 07:25 PM.
03-29-2016, 08:12 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They still couldn't sell an HD A50/1.2 low enough to affect the clearing prices of the legacy lenses. It isn't a bubble. People aren't buying them today to flip next month at a 25% profit. They're only $600 tops and they don't actually SELL above that. Some crazy Korean Buy It Now trolls might list higher, or Kevin, but that's a wish and a prayer.

The Samyang UMC 50/1.4 is $369. The Pentax SMC A50/1.4 is $125. I think the price ratio would hold 2x for 1.2 lenses new vs. legacy, at least, so $1,200 or more for a manual focus, manual aperture A50mm f/1.2 re-run. $1,800 if built to Limited or * standards.

If we want to talk stupid high clearing prices, let's talk A*85/1.4 with hood and caps.
I think a new Pentax-A 1.2/50mm will be close to Nikons AIS NIKKOR 50MM F1.2 LENS MF which is still produced and sold for $699USD
03-29-2016, 08:35 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They still couldn't sell an HD A50/1.2 low enough to affect the clearing prices of the legacy lenses. It isn't a bubble. People aren't buying them today to flip next month at a 25% profit. They're only $600 tops and they don't actually SELL above that. Some crazy Korean Buy It Now trolls might list higher, or Kevin, but that's a wish and a prayer.

The Samyang UMC 50/1.4 is $369. The Pentax SMC A50/1.4 is $125. I think the price ratio would hold 2x for 1.2 lenses new vs. legacy, at least, so $1,200 or more for a manual focus, manual aperture A50mm f/1.2 re-run. $1,800 if built to Limited or * standards.

If we want to talk stupid high clearing prices, let's talk A*85/1.4 with hood and caps.
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM Lens is $1,449.00 new. Used $900-1000 average. (33% less used)

Lets do some extrapolation based on Canon vs Pentax prices.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM Lens: $899.00

Pentax smc Pentax-D FA 100mm f/2.8 WR Macro Lens: $546.95

Pentax is almost 30% cheaper (Also older)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens: $2,099.00

Pentax HD PENTAX D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW Lens: $1,796.95

Pentax is 19% cheaper (Also Newer)

Going by this general math (20% cheaper), Pentax would in theory charge approximately $1,200 for a 50mm 1.2. A used one of these would then, following the general math, theoretically cost around $800.

That WOULD drive down the used SMC-A prices. Would also take a few years, so there is that.

Mind you, this is based on existing data and cursory inspections thereof. There may be flaws. There probably are.

Now, If it's a LIMITED, well, I'd say the ballpark would be more around that $1,800 mark that was mentioned.

---------- Post added 03-29-16 at 08:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
I think a new Pentax-A 1.2/50mm will be close to Nikons AIS NIKKOR 50MM F1.2 LENS MF which is still produced and sold for $699USD
There's also this, yeah.

03-29-2016, 11:30 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
D-FA* 28mm F/2
D-FA 31mm F/1.8 LTD
D-FA* 35mm F/1.4
D-FA 43mm F/1.8 LTD
D-FA* 50mm F/1.2
D-FA 77mm F/1.8
D-FA* 85mm F/1.4
D-FA* 135mm F/1.8
Nice list! I'm also looking forward to these updates as well. On top of those I also wish there is an update version of the D-FA 100mm f2.8 macro lens with internal zoom and supersonic style motor.

Maybe the following would be good too:

D-FA 24-120mm f4/D-FA 28-135mm f4
D-FA 70-300mm f4-5.6
D-FA 16-35mm f4
D-FA* 200mm f2
D-FA* 200mm f4 macro
D-FA* 300mm f2.8
D-FA* 400mm f2.8
D-FA* 600mm f4

Last edited by ColiNiloK; 03-29-2016 at 11:40 PM.
03-30-2016, 01:26 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Any time we try to illustrate an analogy win a political figure, half the people reading it think, "What is he going on about?" and the other half think, "What is he going on about?"
The irony is I was declaring myself to be the person having no idea - problem was I found myself explaining away my obscure approach in making this declaration. Anyway, Mothballs has helped me understand the point being made. Regarding pricing I suggest that the market is finding the right price. Supply/ demand factors are in play. Demand is there because the lens is desirable. Supply is uncommon - hence the pricing. No bubble as far as I can see.

Just because it is second hand it doesn't mean it has to be cheap.

Cheers
03-30-2016, 02:25 AM   #86
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gimme a new Pentax DFA 20mm f/4, even a f/5.6 would do it ... just let it be similar to the DA15mm but sharper!
03-30-2016, 03:37 AM   #87
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I would like a 20-ish mm prime, f2.8 would be fine with regard to aperture.

As to the whole argument about number of lens elements, I think that is over stated. Lens designs in the old days did tend to have sharp centers and weaker borders than at present. Whether or not that is desirable is beyond me. As to how corrected optics are, I don't know. A lot of camera companies are under correcting their lenses and then using in camera processing to "fix" the images. Not sure if that is preferred. It certainly can lead to smaller lenses. In the end, I suppose the perfect number of lens elements is the number it takes to reach a specific look and sharpness. Not one more and not one less.
03-30-2016, 04:22 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sliver-Surfer Quote
I think a new Pentax-A 1.2/50mm will be close to Nikons AIS NIKKOR 50MM F1.2 LENS MF which is still produced and sold for $699USD
@Mothballs

OK, I'm probably high but at $699 I just can't see Pentax losing sleep over a few thousand lenses with maybe $100 profit each at the factory level and not enough sales to justify the carry at distributors.

Is the Nikon really in production or sold from old stock? What currency (country) is the stock held in?
03-30-2016, 04:33 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK, I'm probably high but at $699
I took a look last night, and prices excluding shipping were from just south of $500 to somewhere slightly north of a thousand. There was one which was over $2000, but that's the gold plated one with snake or crocodile skin on the focus ring, so that doesn't count - it deserves to be that much.

There were quite a few minty-looking ones out of Japan, which makes me wonder if someone somewhere has a source for them. When I was into slide rules in a big way, I heard a story about a slide rule collector who wandered into some tiny office supply store somewhere in Asia on the off chance, and hit the mother lode - there were piles and piles of them, new and unopened, in a corner of the store-room, and the owner was so unable to move them as to be pleased to give them away.

So maybe there's a stash of A50/1.2 in Japan which is gradually finding its way out? Who knows? Who cares? I don't. I'm still hoping for that lucky garage sale find from the person who doesn't know what it is they're selling for a pittance, and with a 1.2 lens already in hand I can afford to wait.

Last edited by pathdoc; 03-30-2016 at 04:38 AM.
03-30-2016, 04:52 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Mothballs

OK, I'm probably high but at $699 I just can't see Pentax losing sleep over a few thousand lenses with maybe $100 profit each at the factory level and not enough sales to justify the carry at distributors.

Is the Nikon really in production or sold from old stock? What currency (country) is the stock held in?
I think, it's more an NOS from Nikon Japan. There is few sold every year.


About an HD 50/1.2 : What make the K/A 50/1.2 so great is the size : it's noticeably smaller than the DA*55/1.4 and weight around the same.

If Pentax make a HD 50/1.2, it would be big and heavy i think. Making it a less interesting proposal. I would have to be a "limited" version : small and compact (which is possible, even if using the same formula as the DA*55)

Besides, the K/A have an aperture ring, which makes it a better proposal than the DA*55 specialy if you use film body and digital body.

And then price would be around 1,000 USD (considering the DA*55 price, the 50/1.2 would be more expensive), which would make the lens less interesting overall.
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