New glass - old glass. Which lenses should Pentax revisit?

jsherman999 · 03-30-2016, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by infoomatic

gimme a new Pentax DFA 20mm f/4, even a f/5.6 would do it ... just let it be similar to the DA15mm but sharper!

Yes, although they should be able to make a smallish, not-too-expensive (< $750) FA 20mm f/2.8, which would be a thrill to use on FF.

Re the K-mount 50 f/1.2 conundrum:

($200 and sweet

)

.

**acoufap** · 03-30-2016, 10:26 AM

In addition to the current lenses I'd like to see

Prime:
DFA f4.0/20 (Limited)
+ update of 31, 43 and 77 Limited

Zoom:
DFA f4/20-40 Limited (a FF version of the DA20-40)
DFA* f2.8/50-135 (a FF-version of the APSC lens) - in combination with a 1.4x TC we get a f4/70-190)

DFA AW 1.4x TC (if there are problems using the DA AW 1.4x

They should be as compact as possible high quality lenses appropriate for both FF and APSC - all WR or AW and with fast accurate AF.

Winder · 03-30-2016, 10:43 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by pathdoc

There were quite a few minty-looking ones out of Japan, which makes me wonder if someone somewhere has a source for them.

Originally posted by pathdoc

So maybe there's a stash of A50/1.2 in Japan which is gradually finding its way out? Who knows? Who cares? I don't. I'm still hoping for that lucky garage sale find from the person who doesn't know what it is they're selling for a pittance, and with a 1.2 lens already in hand I can afford to wait.

The Pentax A 50mm F/1.2 was still being made in small batches and sold in Japan until just 3 or 4 years ago, so it is still a common lens in Japan. That is why you see so many like new copies being sold out of Japan.

Mothballs · 03-30-2016, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

So maybe there's a stash of A50/1.2 in Japan which is gradually finding its way out? Who knows? Who cares? I don't. I'm still hoping for that lucky garage sale find from the person who doesn't know what it is they're selling for a pittance, and with a 1.2 lens already in hand I can afford to wait.

Ah. "I already have one, so who cares."

Well then. Good to know where you stand and why.

Still. An Auto focus variant. Would be a good plan...

And an F1.0. Just because then Canon doesn't have sole DSLR speed bragging rights.

pathdoc · 03-30-2016, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Winder

The Pentax A 50mm F/1.2 was still being made in small batches and sold in Japan until just 3 or 4 years ago, so it is still a common lens in Japan. That is why you see so many like new copies being sold out of Japan.

Interesting; I didn't know that. It would tend to reinforce the contention that it would not be an impossible thing to revive its full scale production (or indeed fit an AF system around it on the cheap, at least as a stop-gap).

Originally posted by Mothballs

Well then. Good to know where you stand and why.

I very much cared until I stumbled across an adequate substitute for substantially less, and I am not the only one who's done so:

Originally posted by jsherman999

($200 and sweet )

I want them to bring it back so it becomes something somewhat pricey but affordable, as opposed to cultish and near impossible.

Originally posted by Mothballs

And an F1.0. Just because then Canon doesn't have sole DSLR speed bragging rights.

The last thing Pentax needs is to get into an optical p***ing contest with the big boys to suit the taste of a handful of bokeh freaks. Pentax has bragging rights over Canon already, because we can still mount that manual-focus K or A 50/1.2 lens on our brand new full-frame in the first place, and the A in particular will still do everything it would do the day it was first affixed to an LX or a Super Program. The K has the whole green button issue, but if you're lucky enough to have one as a hand-me-down from a parent or grandparent or uncle, IT WILL WORK. Try that with a 1970's Canon lens. You can't; can you? And even if you can get some of the old fast glass onto the Canons in the first place, you have to be careful about whether the rear element or the aperture lever is going to foul the mirror. Pentax hasn't had that issue since before the Spotmatic. We Pentaxians are in a VERY privileged position with regards to available optics.

Winder · 03-30-2016, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by pathdoc

Interesting; I didn't know that. It would tend to reinforce the contention that it would not be an impossible thing to revive its full scale production (or indeed fit an AF system around it on the cheap, at least as a stop-gap).

There would be no cheap way to revise it with AF. F/1.2 is going to big, slow, & expensive. I would rather have a really good 50mm F/2 with really fast and accurate AF. It is hard to move large focusing groups both quickly as accurately.

**monochrome** · 03-30-2016, 01:03 PM

One way Pentax could make a new $500 A50/1.2 would be to resume the practice of making small batches of the old $500 A50/1.2, but I doubt Ricoh would do that.

edo · 04-02-2016, 04:51 PM - **2 Likes**

All those lenses deserve an homage edition :

My 50 1.4 because the lens design is a legend. Make the FA weather sealed and with silent focus!

My A35 2 into a f1.4!

My A24 2.8 cause it's classic and light WA

My A50 1.2 into a 1.0!

My A50 1.7 with 9 blades and SDM for light killer sharp lens

My FA*24 2 because it's too heavy and need a black coat

My A100 2.8 because I love that lens...

I think Pentax especially needs to do a 85mm f1.8 for us mortal, compact and with character like they made in their glorious past. Reflex and portrait are made for each other... And the FA* is sure expensive and with flaws in the digital age. As is the A*85 1.4

jeverettfine · 04-07-2016, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by ColiNiloK

Nice list! I'm also looking forward to these updates as well. On top of those I also wish there is an update version of the D-FA 100mm f2.8 macro lens with internal zoom and supersonic style motor.

Maybe the following would be good too:

D-FA 24-120mm f4/D-FA 28-135mm f4
D-FA 70-300mm f4-5.6
D-FA 16-35mm f4
D-FA* 200mm f2
D-FA* 200mm f4 macro
D-FA* 300mm f2.8
D-FA* 400mm f2.8
D-FA* 600mm f4

A 400 2.8 would be a monster lens...the 600 4.0 as well, but wouldn't the bird/wildlife photographers love one.

**jatrax** · 04-07-2016, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by jeverettfine

A 400 2.8 would be a monster lens..

It's been done. And yeah it's a monster: SMC Pentax-A* 400mm F2.8 ED [IF] Reviews - A Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

ColiNiloK · 04-07-2016, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by jeverettfine

A 400 2.8 would be a monster lens...the 600 4.0 as well, but wouldn't the bird/wildlife photographers love one.

I agree, but nice to have them in the system. I think Pentax can make them, the question is whether they will/need to, and whether there is enough interest to cover the manufacture and R&D cost.

pathdoc · 04-08-2016, 04:09 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ColiNiloK

the manufacture and R&D cost.

They have an optical formula - all they need is to work out the AF needed to drive it and how to package the whole deal. And though they would need to tweak the optics, they at least would not have to completely reinvent the wheel (unless the A* 400 was a complete dog of a lens, which given the * designation I seriously doubt).

deus ursus · 04-08-2016, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by pathdoc

[...] (unless the A* 400 was a complete dog of a lens, which given the * designation I seriously doubt).

According to the reviews in the lens database, it's a pretty decent lens.

**jatrax** · 04-08-2016, 09:17 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

would not have to completely reinvent the wheel (unless the A* 400 was a complete dog of a lens, which given the * designation I seriously doubt).

Originally posted by deus ursus

According to the reviews in the lens database, it's a pretty decent lens.

But are they taking any of the film era lenses and re-using the optical formulas? I don't think so. They might start with the old formula, or maybe not even bother. A lot of that old glass was very good, and still is if you overlook the issues such as fringing, flare and CA. I have and use a lot of old glass but look at the relatively simple optical formulas of those lenses compared to the really complex ones being used on modern glass. (For better or worse based on the arguments on this forum

)
I think any new glass is mostly going to start from scratch as far as the optical formula goes. We have better design tools, different glass, different ways of forming optics, different requirements for digital sensors, and even new environmental rules all of which means nostalgia is fine but they are still starting over as far as R&D is concerned.

Mothballs · 04-08-2016, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

But are they taking any of the film era lenses and re-using the optical formulas? I don't think so. They might start with the old formula, or maybe not even bother. A lot of that old glass was very good, and still is if you overlook the issues such as fringing, flare and CA. I have and use a lot of old glass but look at the relatively simple optical formulas of those lenses compared to the really complex ones being used on modern glass. (For better or worse based on the arguments on this forum

)
I think any new glass is mostly going to start from scratch as far as the optical formula goes. We have better design tools, different glass, different ways of forming optics, different requirements for digital sensors, and even new environmental rules all of which means nostalgia is fine but they are still starting over as far as R&D is concerned.

Except Zeiss is still using the Planar as a base for practically everything. Just tons of refinement.

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? There are some very very excellent film era lenses that would need relatively minor adjustments...

04-02-2016, 04:51 PM - 2 Likes	#98
edo Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 75	All those lenses deserve an homage edition : My 50 1.4 because the lens design is a legend. Make the FA weather sealed and with silent focus! My A35 2 into a f1.4! My A24 2.8 cause it's classic and light WA My A50 1.2 into a 1.0! My A50 1.7 with 9 blades and SDM for light killer sharp lens My FA24 2 because it's too heavy and need a black coat My A100 2.8 because I love that lens... I think Pentax especially needs to do a 85mm f1.8 for us mortal, compact and with character like they made in their glorious past. Reflex and portrait are made for each other... And the FA is sure expensive and with flaws in the digital age. As is the A85 1.4 Last edited by edo; 04-02-2016 at 05:18 PM.*

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03-30-2016, 09:33 AM	#91
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by infoomatic gimme a new Pentax DFA 20mm f/4, even a f/5.6 would do it ... just let it be similar to the DA15mm but sharper! Yes, although they should be able to make a smallish, not-too-expensive (< $750) FA 20mm f/2.8, which would be a thrill to use on FF. Re the K-mount 50 f/1.2 conundrum: ($200 and sweet ) .

03-30-2016, 10:26 AM	#92
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	In addition to the current lenses I'd like to see Prime: DFA f4.0/20 (Limited) + update of 31, 43 and 77 Limited Zoom: DFA f4/20-40 Limited (a FF version of the DA20-40) DFA* f2.8/50-135 (a FF-version of the APSC lens) - in combination with a 1.4x TC we get a f4/70-190) DFA AW 1.4x TC (if there are problems using the DA AW 1.4x They should be as compact as possible high quality lenses appropriate for both FF and APSC - all WR or AW and with fast accurate AF.

03-30-2016, 10:43 AM - 2 Likes	#93
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by pathdoc There were quite a few minty-looking ones out of Japan, which makes me wonder if someone somewhere has a source for them. Originally posted by pathdoc So maybe there's a stash of A50/1.2 in Japan which is gradually finding its way out? Who knows? Who cares? I don't. I'm still hoping for that lucky garage sale find from the person who doesn't know what it is they're selling for a pittance, and with a 1.2 lens already in hand I can afford to wait. The Pentax A 50mm F/1.2 was still being made in small batches and sold in Japan until just 3 or 4 years ago, so it is still a common lens in Japan. That is why you see so many like new copies being sold out of Japan.

03-30-2016, 11:23 AM	#94
Mothballs Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 275	Originally posted by pathdoc So maybe there's a stash of A50/1.2 in Japan which is gradually finding its way out? Who knows? Who cares? I don't. I'm still hoping for that lucky garage sale find from the person who doesn't know what it is they're selling for a pittance, and with a 1.2 lens already in hand I can afford to wait. Ah. "I already have one, so who cares." Well then. Good to know where you stand and why. Still. An Auto focus variant. Would be a good plan... And an F1.0. Just because then Canon doesn't have sole DSLR speed bragging rights.

03-30-2016, 12:23 PM	#95
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by Winder The Pentax A 50mm F/1.2 was still being made in small batches and sold in Japan until just 3 or 4 years ago, so it is still a common lens in Japan. That is why you see so many like new copies being sold out of Japan. Interesting; I didn't know that. It would tend to reinforce the contention that it would not be an impossible thing to revive its full scale production (or indeed fit an AF system around it on the cheap, at least as a stop-gap). Originally posted by Mothballs Well then. Good to know where you stand and why. I very much cared until I stumbled across an adequate substitute for substantially less, and I am not the only one who's done so: Originally posted by jsherman999 ($200 and sweet ) I want them to bring it back so it becomes something somewhat pricey but affordable, as opposed to cultish and near impossible. Originally posted by Mothballs And an F1.0. Just because then Canon doesn't have sole DSLR speed bragging rights. The last thing Pentax needs is to get into an optical p**ing contest with the big boys to suit the taste of a handful of bokeh freaks. Pentax has bragging rights over Canon already, because we can still mount that manual-focus K or A 50/1.2 lens on our brand new full-frame in the first place, and the A in particular will still do everything it would do the day it was first affixed to an LX or a Super Program. The K has the whole green button issue, but if you're lucky enough to have one as a hand-me-down from a parent or grandparent or uncle, IT WILL WORK. Try that with a 1970's Canon lens. You can't; can you? And even if you can get some of the old fast glass onto the Canons in the first place, you have to be careful about whether the rear element or the aperture lever is going to foul the mirror. Pentax hasn't had that* issue since before the Spotmatic. We Pentaxians are in a VERY privileged position with regards to available optics.

03-30-2016, 12:57 PM	#96
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by pathdoc Interesting; I didn't know that. It would tend to reinforce the contention that it would not be an impossible thing to revive its full scale production (or indeed fit an AF system around it on the cheap, at least as a stop-gap). There would be no cheap way to revise it with AF. F/1.2 is going to big, slow, & expensive. I would rather have a really good 50mm F/2 with really fast and accurate AF. It is hard to move large focusing groups both quickly as accurately.

03-30-2016, 01:03 PM	#97
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	One way Pentax could make a new $500 A50/1.2 would be to resume the practice of making small batches of the old $500 A50/1.2, but I doubt Ricoh would do that.

04-07-2016, 08:40 AM	#99
jeverettfine Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Austin, Texas Photos: Albums Posts: 328	Originally posted by ColiNiloK Nice list! I'm also looking forward to these updates as well. On top of those I also wish there is an update version of the D-FA 100mm f2.8 macro lens with internal zoom and supersonic style motor. Maybe the following would be good too: D-FA 24-120mm f4/D-FA 28-135mm f4 D-FA 70-300mm f4-5.6 D-FA 16-35mm f4 D-FA* 200mm f2 D-FA* 200mm f4 macro D-FA* 300mm f2.8 D-FA* 400mm f2.8 D-FA* 600mm f4 A 400 2.8 would be a monster lens...the 600 4.0 as well, but wouldn't the bird/wildlife photographers love one.

04-07-2016, 06:05 PM	#100
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by jeverettfine A 400 2.8 would be a monster lens.. It's been done. And yeah it's a monster: SMC Pentax-A* 400mm F2.8 ED [IF] Reviews - A Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

04-07-2016, 08:44 PM	#101
ColiNiloK Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 102	Originally posted by jeverettfine A 400 2.8 would be a monster lens...the 600 4.0 as well, but wouldn't the bird/wildlife photographers love one. I agree, but nice to have them in the system. I think Pentax can make them, the question is whether they will/need to, and whether there is enough interest to cover the manufacture and R&D cost.

04-08-2016, 04:09 AM - 1 Like	#102
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	Originally posted by ColiNiloK the manufacture and R&D cost. They have an optical formula - all they need is to work out the AF needed to drive it and how to package the whole deal. And though they would need to tweak the optics, they at least would not have to completely reinvent the wheel (unless the A* 400 was a complete dog of a lens, which given the * designation I seriously doubt).

04-08-2016, 04:21 AM	#103
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	Originally posted by pathdoc [...] (unless the A* 400 was a complete dog of a lens, which given the * designation I seriously doubt). According to the reviews in the lens database, it's a pretty decent lens.

04-08-2016, 09:17 AM - 1 Like	#104
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by pathdoc would not have to completely reinvent the wheel (unless the A* 400 was a complete dog of a lens, which given the * designation I seriously doubt). Originally posted by deus ursus According to the reviews in the lens database, it's a pretty decent lens. But are they taking any of the film era lenses and re-using the optical formulas? I don't think so. They might start with the old formula, or maybe not even bother. A lot of that old glass was very good, and still is if you overlook the issues such as fringing, flare and CA. I have and use a lot of old glass but look at the relatively simple optical formulas of those lenses compared to the really complex ones being used on modern glass. (For better or worse based on the arguments on this forum ) I think any new glass is mostly going to start from scratch as far as the optical formula goes. We have better design tools, different glass, different ways of forming optics, different requirements for digital sensors, and even new environmental rules all of which means nostalgia is fine but they are still starting over as far as R&D is concerned.

04-08-2016, 11:11 AM	#105
Mothballs Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 275	Originally posted by jatrax But are they taking any of the film era lenses and re-using the optical formulas? I don't think so. They might start with the old formula, or maybe not even bother. A lot of that old glass was very good, and still is if you overlook the issues such as fringing, flare and CA. I have and use a lot of old glass but look at the relatively simple optical formulas of those lenses compared to the really complex ones being used on modern glass. (For better or worse based on the arguments on this forum ) I think any new glass is mostly going to start from scratch as far as the optical formula goes. We have better design tools, different glass, different ways of forming optics, different requirements for digital sensors, and even new environmental rules all of which means nostalgia is fine but they are still starting over as far as R&D is concerned. Except Zeiss is still using the Planar as a base for practically everything. Just tons of refinement. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? There are some very very excellent film era lenses that would need relatively minor adjustments...