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03-27-2016, 01:58 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by zmohie Quote
ok theغ got my money to divid it among sony ,fujistu and others.!
in the past when the whole camera system was mechanichal yes all the benfite went to pentax or to the others photography company but now. pentax will get less!
This is very simple business. Ricoh manufactures what it can economically, buys in components that it can't possibly hope to manufacture itself, creates the products and sells them for considerably more than cost price. Hence, profit.

The cost of Ricoh building R&D and manufacturing facilities for every major component in the camera would be astronomical, the risks huge, and the return on investment so far into the future that it would make no economic sense.

EDIT: I notice from one of your other posts a little earlier today, you said "hard work to bring this amazing machine. thanks Ricoh again and again!" - so I think you understand that the K-1 is more than the sum of its physical component parts, whoever manufactured those components. The only other thing you need to bake in is the concept that Ricoh spends less on these components and product development than it intends to make from sales of the product. That's their financial benefit, at least.


Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-27-2016 at 02:14 PM.
03-27-2016, 01:58 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by zmohie Quote
the sensor,the engine,the motherboard the shutter unit are not pentax made
Just because other companies are involved in supplying the hardware doesn't mean that Pentax engineers just sit back and do nothing. Based on interviews and recent trade shows, it sounds like the K-1 was one of the company's biggest undertakings to date, since unlike other bodies, almost all of its hardware was developed from scratch or integrated for the first time. To put things more simply: when it comes to hardware components, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Doing everything in-house would not only be cost-prohibitive, but probably also inferior.

Pentaxians have been asking for full-frame for years. The high-end DSLR market is a great opportunity for Pentax, since both bodies and lenses can be sold at higher margins than smaller systems. Since there is no camera like the K-1 on the market today, especially considering its price point, it's undeniably going to attract attention like the 645D/Z did (though certainly to a lesser extent given the maturity of Canon and Nikon's systems). It can also serve as a viable backup or supplement for medium format shooters.

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03-27-2016, 02:12 PM - 1 Like   #18
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If you look at it from the strategic point of view, it's also part of a need to adapt Pentax to changing consumer demand.

10 years ago a substantial part of Pentax revenue came from stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap point and shoots. Phones have killed that category, so in order to survive they have had to discover consumers willing to part money for different product lines. High end products like 645D, 645Z, K1 give a lot more profit per unit, and are also a good way to reposition Pentax as a high end, quality brand.
03-27-2016, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #19
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Go down to your local Ford or Chevrolet deal and look at a new car then consider that virtually every part on the vehicle is made by a third party. The primary manufacturer makes the sheet metal, and running gear and not much else. It costs them less to farm or those parts than to make them in house. They get credit (or blame) for the entire product even they might actually make 30%

03-27-2016, 02:25 PM - 1 Like   #20
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While the ultimate goal of any business enterprise is to achieve a profit (assuming they want to stay in business) there are intangible benefits that are the real motivators for the majority of those involved, from the boardroom all the way through to the point of sale. Money, after all, has no inherent value, and in itself is not a lasting motivator, even though it is needed by most of us to live healthy, satisfying lives (the absence of money can be a motivator, of course). Anyone who has created anything, be they design engineer, chef or weekend handyman, knows the deep sense of satisfaction that results from both the process of creation and its outcome. So, if you want to be successful in business in the long term, you need to pay your employees and suppliers enough to satisfy their needs and you need to give them things to do that will allow them a sense of personal involvement and satisfaction. If you read through the Challengers section of the K-1 website, you'll get a glimpse of that in action.

Aside from that, to the best of my knowledge, Asahi Optical Company did not mine the metals that were used in the structure and mechanisms of their film cameras, let alone produce the glass for lenses, and neither did they slaughter and tan the hides of cattle to make the leather covers or eveready cases. The complexity of the components now supplied to make the end product, under Ricoh, has increased, to be sure, but suppliers are suppliers, nonetheless.

So, Ricoh gets a profit from the K-1, its employees and suppliers get paid, and everyone gets a sense of pride and satisfaction along the way, including the buyers, who get another tool to help them create the sort of pictures they want to make. The company, though, as an entity gets every potential buyer and commentator to notice that it's done something a bit different from what's gone before, and earns itself a place in their thinking, whether they buy the new product or not. Inevitably, though, some will buy, and that keeps the enterprise going until the next time.

It's really no different for any successful maker of real things, even some that aren't.
03-27-2016, 02:25 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by dakight Quote
Go down to your local Ford or Chevrolet deal and look at a new car then consider that virtually every part on the vehicle is made by a third party. The primary manufacturer makes the sheet metal, and running gear and not much else. It costs them less to farm or those parts than to make them in house. They get credit (or blame) for the entire product even they might actually make 30%
Absolutely. And so it goes for pretty much any complex product on the market today, regardless of manufacturer. In fact, in many cases the bought-in components are themselves manufactured using core materials and small components from still other manufacturers / suppliers

---------- Post added 03-27-2016 at 10:44 PM ----------

@RobA_Oz - eloquently put, Rob.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-27-2016 at 02:45 PM.
03-27-2016, 02:47 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by zmohie Quote
ok theغ got my money to divid it among sony ,fujistu and others.!
in the past when the whole camera system was mechanichal yes all the benfite went to pentax or to the others photography company but now. pentax will get less!
I have to ask - do you own a car?
03-27-2016, 03:16 PM   #23
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Oh, this is one of those threads... Why won't Ricoh kill the K-1 right now? Why are they making a DSLR, since everyone want a mirrorless nowadays? Why are they sitting idle and merely combine components made by others? And other BS like this.

So, tell me, zmoohie: if I would give you these components, are you able to make a camera out of them? Note that I won't be writing the firmware for you; I won't customize anything; I won't help you build a body and find where to stuff all these components; I won't help you find creative solutions where Ricoh/Pentax did. You will have to do the camera by yourself, or how do you call it... only the name and a black box!

You're not simply mistaken, but trying to spread misinformation. The sensor was customized to Ricoh's specification (if only the packaging and filter array); the "engine" might be a Fujitsu Milbeaut, but it runs on Ricoh/Pentax software; the motherboard is surely custom-made, otherwise it wouldn't fit in the custom-made body; the shutter unit... given that's a bit larger than a standard "full frame" one, might be customized to Ricoh's specifications as well. And the lenses... the new D FA line includes 2 rebadged Tamron lenses, but also (so far) 3 Ricoh/Pentax designs: the 28-105, 150-450 and the 70-200.

Why don't you think a bit before writing such nonsense, and perhaps read about some of the challenges Ricoh/Pentax engineers had to solve in order to make the K-1?
Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING

03-27-2016, 03:18 PM - 3 Likes   #24
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Oops!
I forgot this in my first post...

:facepaw: :facepaw: :facepaw:
03-27-2016, 03:19 PM - 2 Likes   #25
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I knew something was missing.
03-27-2016, 04:14 PM - 1 Like   #26
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The K-1 will be sold at a profit. Good for Ricoh, even after Sony, Fujitsu and others get their cut.

People who buy the K-1 will want new lenses, which Ricoh will sell at a profit. Good for Ricoh. Only two of the new lenses are re-badged Tamrons by the way....

Pentax might just improve its market share. Good for Ricoh.
03-27-2016, 04:41 PM   #27
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Its a great time to enter the FF market because sensor technology is mature and prices are affordable. That means you can make a model and not have to worry it will be obsolete in 6 months time with a whole lot of stock on your hands that has to be sold at a loss. Pentax also makes money from selling lenses, of which only 2 (out of 14 FF lenses) are manufactured by tamron to pentax spec (better coatings and wr). Not only will pentax make money on these lenses but they free up R&D to fill out their lens line and make the whole system more competitive as a whole. A compromise yes but the tamron lenses are proven performers and will be even better with pentax coatings.
03-27-2016, 04:53 PM   #28
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I am totally lost at OP's question and intent.... what about other camera makers? do they build everything from scratch in their own plant? Do car manufacturers make their own brand of tires and every component of the car?
03-27-2016, 05:03 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Oh, this is one of those threads... Why won't Ricoh kill the K-1 right now? Why are they making a DSLR, since everyone want a mirrorless nowadays? Why are they sitting idle and merely combine components made by others? And other BS like this.

So, tell me, zmoohie: if I would give you these components, are you able to make a camera out of them? Note that I won't be writing the firmware for you; I won't customize anything; I won't help you build a body and find where to stuff all these components; I won't help you find creative solutions where Ricoh/Pentax did. You will have to do the camera by yourself, or how do you call it... only the name and a black box!

You're not simply mistaken, but trying to spread misinformation. The sensor was customized to Ricoh's specification (if only the packaging and filter array); the "engine" might be a Fujitsu Milbeaut, but it runs on Ricoh/Pentax software; the motherboard is surely custom-made, otherwise it wouldn't fit in the custom-made body; the shutter unit... given that's a bit larger than a standard "full frame" one, might be customized to Ricoh's specifications as well. And the lenses... the new D FA line includes 2 rebadged Tamron lenses, but also (so far) 3 Ricoh/Pentax designs: the 28-105, 150-450 and the 70-200.

Why don't you think a bit before writing such nonsense, and perhaps read about some of the challenges Ricoh/Pentax engineers had to solve in order to make the K-1?
Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING
If it is nonsense why share your thoughts.
I was trying to make a different thread far away from the capability of the camera and the specifications which are repeated through the forum. A different method of interest about the cost and profit.
And please don't misunderstanding my point.
The point from first is to think outside the box.
03-27-2016, 05:07 PM   #30
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1. Prestige. A place between those only two manufacturers that are making FF DSLR today, Canon and Nikon. Yes, Sony makes FF camera, but mirrorless, and slowly, people start to came back from mirrorless to DSLR, talking about the advantages of DSLR over mirrorless.

2. Satisfaction of the users is a big thing for every serious business. And Pentax users are waiting for this K-1 from a very long time.

3. A step to go up, to upgrade, a point of attraction, for users, but not a very far away one, like the 645Z.

4. To stop the outflow of users who wanted an FF and changed the brand in the recent years, because there was none on the Pentax shelf.

4bis. Money. This point does not exist, because, in my opinion, profit from a new product on a new level is not the target right now. The real target for Ricoh is to place Pentax again in the 4 place (if not on the 3rd) on the market, regarding not the selling volume, but the attention, from public and photo pundits.

About assembling pieces from other manufacturers, I do not agree. Ricoh has launched a camera with new features, not present in any other FF cameras, and this deserve, and attract attention. Just today I have watched a video comparison between Canon D1X Mark 2 and Nikon D5. A lot of differences in numbers, but not in features.

Yes, there are things where K-1 is behind other FF camera, there are lenses missing to make a proffi setup, but as I believed not many years ago that a Pentax FF camera will come, despite fierce opposition from some members, I believe that in 2-3 years will see a much bigger line of Pentax lenses for K-1, and K-2, or whatever they will call it, and many people will be happy.

Signed, a Canon user.
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