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06-01-2016, 09:37 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by qdfb Quote
Hasselblad has a user adjustable delay between shots on its multishot cameras. The point is to allow studio strobes time to recycle between the four shots (on a four shot setting similar to the K1). I assume that with the K1, Pentax would have to do two things: add a delay for recycling and resetting the shutter, and also add an instruction to fire the flash other than by pushing the shutter button.
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Indeed they do, which would be a usable workaround under studio conditions for the current situation we are in with PS.
This is where we all shout in chorus, "It should be a simple firmware fix"


...or not*

In my opinion, I think allowing fine control of the pixel shift sequence would be a very cool thing and very much worthy doing. It may require splitting off part of the flash control from the mechanical shutter sequence, but would be totally worth it.


Steve

* Very seldom is anything simple in the world of process control.

06-02-2016, 03:16 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This is where we all shout in chorus, "It should be a simple firmware fix"
Depending on power requirements, most flashes won't be able to keep up in terms of recycling speed, though.

A Cactus V6 in group cycling mode could however support four full power flashes in extremely quick succession. One would just need four flashes (set to the same power output).

An alternative (equipment intensive) solution that works already with the current K-1 is to use a Cactus V6 in a regular mode but stage the triggering of the four V6 receivers (or RF60s) by setting increasing delay values on them. The delay would have to be aligned with the K-1's exposure sequence, but that should be possible, given the 1ms resolution of the delay.
06-02-2016, 05:56 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Depending on power requirements, most flashes won't be able to keep up in terms of recycling speed, though.
Studio strobes can recycle fairly quickly, but who says that the four exposures have to be so rapid-fire? If you have the camera mounted on a tripod then there would be no hurry whatsoever.
06-02-2016, 07:08 AM - 3 Likes   #49
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Here's one...

2 flash on wireless triggers (in lightbox/softbox) - these fire at the same time to give 1 more stop of power for the same setting.
Hence, if both are at 1/4 power, they give 1/2 power of a single flash while retaining the charge at 1/4 usage. (ie. can fire roughly 4x w/o a long recycle time)

Since its indoors, set ambient to as dim as possible after setting up the shot (plus focusing, etc)
At f8, f11, I'd think its shutter speed should be slow enough to be in the seconds range.
Choose a shutter speed such that there is enough time to trigger the flash via remote (4x thru the PS sequence )

---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 10:53 PM ----------

Whallah!

35mins after typing the above, I just had to show that its possible (and really doable )






2 YN560IV on light stands pointed to the same silver umbrella.
1 silver umbrella on the other side for fill
Flashes at 1/4 power

K1 set to pixel shift, M mode, ISO100, 5s per frame, f8 (lens : Vivitar 55mm macro)
2s timer release

Focus is on the Yashica Mat name plate.


Basically, I set up the shot, and focus, turned off the lights that would affect the ambient exposure.
Released the timed shutter released.
Once picture taking started, I started my stopwatch and manually triggered the flashes with a YN603N II within the interval of each 5s frame.


Full size uploaded on my flickr (just click on the sample and navigate there )



If a half baked strobist like me can pull this off after thinking of it within 35mins, I'm sure others can too.


Last edited by pinholecam; 06-02-2016 at 07:55 AM.
06-02-2016, 07:57 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Here's one...

2 flash on wireless triggers (in lightbox/softbox) - these fire at the same time to give 1 more stop of power for the same setting.
Hence, if both are at 1/4 power, they give 1/2 power of a single flash while retaining the charge at 1/4 usage. (ie. can fire roughly 4x w/o a long recycle time)

Since its indoors, set ambient to as dim as possible after setting up the shot (plus focusing, etc)
At f8, f11, I'd think its shutter speed should be slow enough to be in the seconds range.
Choose a shutter speed such that there is enough time to trigger the flash via remote (4x thru the PS sequence )

---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 10:53 PM ----------

Whallah!

35mins after typing the above, I just had to show that its possible (and really doable )






2 YN560IV on light stands pointed to the same silver umbrella.
1 silver umbrella on the other side for fill
Flashes at 1/4 power

K1 set to pixel shift, M mode, ISO100, 5s per frame, f8 (lens : Vivitar 55mm macro)
2s timer release

Focus is on the Yashica Mat name plate.


Basically, I set up the shot, and focus, turned off the lights that would affect the ambient exposure.
Released the timed shutter released.
Once picture taking started, I started my stopwatch and manually triggered the flashes with a YN603N II within the interval of each 5s frame.


Full size uploaded on my flickr (just click on the sample and navigate there )



If a half baked strobist like me can pull this off after thinking of it within 35mins, I'm sure others can too.
If that is possible, then Pentax should update firmwares to allow syncing flash with PS mode. There are no reasons of not to support syncing for PS mode.
06-02-2016, 08:04 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
If that is possible, then Pentax should update firmwares to allow syncing flash with PS mode. There are no reasons of not to support syncing for PS mode.

Perhaps...

But I got kind of frustrated that 4 pages into this, all that there is was big theories and "someone should have done this/that" but no action.


To me, the camera is a dead thing, the person is thinking.... so instead of waiting and talking.... might as well try it.


Ultimately, if we want it, we owe it to ourselves to use the equipment and knowledge at hand and try it out, make it work.

Better than just waiting for Pentax to drop it on our laps, which may/not happen.

Last edited by pinholecam; 06-02-2016 at 08:18 AM.
06-02-2016, 09:05 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Studio strobes can recycle fairly quickly, but who says that the four exposures have to be so rapid-fire? If you have the camera mounted on a tripod then there would be no hurry whatsoever.
Exactly. The "fix" is to allow manual timing (release shutter four times?) of the four exposures with option for flash sync. It would be very much a niche feature, but much appreciated by folk doing documentation photography and certain types of product shots and perhaps some creative stuff too.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-02-2016 at 09:16 AM.
06-02-2016, 09:11 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
But I got kind of frustrated that 4 pages into this, all that there is was big theories and "someone should have done this/that" but no action.
What kind of action do you propose? We could picket Ricoh Imaging, NA perhaps? Edit: ...posted before seeing your excellent studio hack

QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
If that is possible, then Pentax should update firmwares to allow syncing flash with PS mode. There are no reasons of not to support syncing for PS mode.
There are plenty of reasons from a business perspective (all features come at a cost) and there are probably also a few technical reasons. I can imagine (just short of putting money on it) that the existing flash control components are hard-wired to take their sync from the (mechanical) shutter module. That small piece would be a trick to overcome in firmware.


Steve

06-02-2016, 09:13 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Here's one...

2 flash on wireless triggers (in lightbox/softbox) - these fire at the same time to give 1 more stop of power for the same setting.
Hence, if both are at 1/4 power, they give 1/2 power of a single flash while retaining the charge at 1/4 usage. (ie. can fire roughly 4x w/o a long recycle time)

Since its indoors, set ambient to as dim as possible after setting up the shot (plus focusing, etc)
At f8, f11, I'd think its shutter speed should be slow enough to be in the seconds range.
Choose a shutter speed such that there is enough time to trigger the flash via remote (4x thru the PS sequence )

---------- Post added 06-02-2016 at 10:53 PM ----------

Whallah!

35mins after typing the above, I just had to show that its possible (and really doable )






2 YN560IV on light stands pointed to the same silver umbrella.
1 silver umbrella on the other side for fill
Flashes at 1/4 power

K1 set to pixel shift, M mode, ISO100, 5s per frame, f8 (lens : Vivitar 55mm macro)
2s timer release

Focus is on the Yashica Mat name plate.


Basically, I set up the shot, and focus, turned off the lights that would affect the ambient exposure.
Released the timed shutter released.
Once picture taking started, I started my stopwatch and manually triggered the flashes with a YN603N II within the interval of each 5s frame.


Full size uploaded on my flickr (just click on the sample and navigate there )



If a half baked strobist like me can pull this off after thinking of it within 35mins, I'm sure others can too.
Great hack!


Steve
06-02-2016, 11:12 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
What kind of action do you propose? We could picket Ricoh Imaging, NA perhaps? Edit: ...posted before seeing your excellent studio hack



There are plenty of reasons from a business perspective (all features come at a cost) and there are probably also a few technical reasons. I can imagine (just short of putting money on it) that the existing flash control components are hard-wired to take their sync from the (mechanical) shutter module. That small piece would be a trick to overcome in firmware.


Steve
Looks like Hasselblad already achieved multishot with flash syncing but they used electronic shutter and controller.
06-02-2016, 11:55 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Better than just waiting for Pentax to drop it on our laps, which may/not happen.
Nice work. Not that it's terribly relevant to the discussion, but my inner pixel-peeper compels me to ask if you can also post a regular non-PS version of that pic?
06-02-2016, 02:35 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
If that is possible, then Pentax should update firmwares to allow syncing flash with PS mode. There are no reasons of not to support syncing for PS mode.
Except possibly the fact it is mechanically impossible with the current shutter.
06-03-2016, 08:43 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Studio strobes can recycle fairly quickly, but who says that the four exposures have to be so rapid-fire?
I considered the possibility that PS only works well if the shifting can occur in relatively quickly. Apparently, as rather long shutter speeds seem to be supported, there is no such restriction.
06-04-2016, 12:49 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
2 YN560IV on light stands pointed to the same silver umbrella.
1 silver umbrella on the other side for fill
Flashes at 1/4 power

K1 set to pixel shift, M mode, ISO100, 5s per frame, f8 (lens : Vivitar 55mm macro)
2s timer release

Focus is on the Yashica Mat name plate.

Basically, I set up the shot, and focus, turned off the lights that would affect the ambient exposure.
Released the timed shutter released.
Once picture taking started, I started my stopwatch and manually triggered the flashes with a YN603N II within the interval of each 5s frame.

If a half baked strobist like me can pull this off after thinking of it within 35mins, I'm sure others can too.
Nice to see someone ending the whining and take some grown up responsibility to find a solution.

If you have a second body (many seem to do), you might connect the flashes to the second body and set it to do a 5 sec intervall shooting, thus ending the need to trigger the flashes manually. You then just need to triger both cameras in sync.
06-04-2016, 01:04 AM - 1 Like   #60
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..... or going back to my original suggestion, if you don't absolutely need to use strobes why not continuous LED?! For typical studio portraiture that does not need high speed, I think you woudl be surprised what can be accomplished!
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