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06-04-2016, 01:50 AM   #61
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Yes, in a modern setup continous LED lights are the pro solution since pixelshift is meant for static objects anyway.
You obviuously just need LEDs with good color characteristics, not the cheap China ones.

Or use other options like the Hensel C-Light Ds.

06-04-2016, 03:04 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
..... or going back to my original suggestion, if you don't absolutely need to use strobes why not continuous LED?! For typical studio portraiture that does not need high speed, I think you woudl be surprised what can be accomplished!

I doubt portraits will work, a PS sequence takes roughly a second even with a short shutter speed.
06-04-2016, 04:28 AM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
..... or going back to my original suggestion, if you don't absolutely need to use strobes why not continuous LED?! For typical studio portraiture that does not need high speed, I think you woudl be surprised what can be accomplished!

Or even light bulbs. Power output is no problem as. You can use long shutter speeds.
06-04-2016, 09:05 AM   #64
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Motion comp pixel shift should still give benefit over non motion comp
I've tried experimenting with mc pixel shift in dcu. It works but obviously if model moves you are not necessarily going to get the full pixel shift benefit.
If you are willing to bump ISO (remembering that pixel shift gives you at least 2 stop noise benefit) you could drive up that shutter speed and probably get much better pixel shift result with regards to tonality, color....
I see no reason that it can't be used for portraits to get a better end result to non PS.
Obviously I'm talking about leveraging pixel shift mc mode for this

Just a thought.

06-04-2016, 10:25 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
Motion comp pixel shift should still give benefit over non motion comp
I've tried experimenting with mc pixel shift in dcu. It works but obviously if model moves you are not necessarily going to get the full pixel shift benefit.
If you are willing to bump ISO (remembering that pixel shift gives you at least 2 stop noise benefit) you could drive up that shutter speed and probably get much better pixel shift result with regards to tonality, color....
I see no reason that it can't be used for portraits to get a better end result to non PS.
Obviously I'm talking about leveraging pixel shift mc mode for this

Just a thought.
Channeling my inner digitalis(?). If you're already in a studio, shooting with a 35mm sensor at iso 100.... You probably don't need pixel shift to get high quality images. Do you guys have k1's, or arguing hypotheticals?
06-04-2016, 05:03 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Nice to see someone ending the whining and take some grown up responsibility to find a solution.

If you have a second body (many seem to do), you might connect the flashes to the second body and set it to do a 5 sec intervall shooting, thus ending the need to trigger the flashes manually. You then just need to triger both cameras in sync.

Thats very cool indeed!
I'm going try that out with my Q7 as the trigger.


QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
..... or going back to my original suggestion, if you don't absolutely need to use strobes why not continuous LED?! For typical studio portraiture that does not need high speed, I think you woudl be surprised what can be accomplished!
Exactly!
In fact, the good ole classic window light too.
06-04-2016, 05:14 PM   #67
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Have a k1. Not arguing, just trying to help.
As for the question of benefits of pixelshift for studio photography, it potentially opens up high end medium format levels of color tonality for larger prints/advertising campaigns.
There is something wonderful about the 16bit files from a hassleblad, effectively the resulting 16bit tiff files made from 4 , 14 bit exposures within a pixelshift file (14bit data each for red, green and blue ) should provide an even better tonality when a resulting 16bit tiff is output.
For sure it's very niche, however it potentially opens up quality that you used to need to spend 15k+ on... more if using a higher end hassleblad.

06-05-2016, 02:22 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Thats very cool indeed!
I'm going try that out with my Q7 as the trigger.
I used the JJC wireless trigger where each receiver can fire both camera and flash at the same time.

06-05-2016, 06:56 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
Channeling my inner digitalis(?). If you're already in a studio, shooting with a 35mm sensor at iso 100.... You probably don't need pixel shift to get high quality images. Do you guys have k1's, or arguing hypotheticals?
35mm @iso100 in a studio is not the ultimate in digital picture quality, or those medium format beasts wouldn't exist.

Why wouldn't you want these cameras to both punch above their image quality weight class AND be a simple drop in solution for an existing flash-based studio stills setup?

Integrating Pixel Shift with studio lights or flashes is obviously doable (see other brands) or with the Pentax via a roundabout approach (as pinholecam has shown ). It's also not just about the k-1, but Pentax's implementation across its future lineup. I'd doubt this would ever be added as a firmware update (if it's even possible via firmware alone), but maybe in the next generation.
06-05-2016, 11:45 AM   #70
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It's simple to arrange. Hasselblad "multi-shot" cameras work with studio strobes by including a short delay between shots, about 2-5 seconds, to allow the studio strobes time to recycle. So long as good quality strobes are used, its very simple. In 4 shot mode, the camera shifts the sensor by one pixel, just like the K1 does, fires the strobes, and then moves on to the next shot, fires the strobes again, and does this 4 times.

All the K1 needs is two steps which could be added in firmware: a user adjustable delay between each of the four shots, and for the camera to fire the strobes each shot.
06-05-2016, 12:41 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by qdfb Quote
It's simple to arrange. Hasselblad "multi-shot" cameras work with studio strobes by including a short delay between shots, about 2-5 seconds, to allow the studio strobes time to recycle. So long as good quality strobes are used, its very simple. In 4 shot mode, the camera shifts the sensor by one pixel, just like the K1 does, fires the strobes, and then moves on to the next shot, fires the strobes again, and does this 4 times.

All the K1 needs is two steps which could be added in firmware: a user adjustable delay between each of the four shots, and for the camera to fire the strobes each shot.
The second part may be the problem. Are you sure the K1 has an electronic flash trigger? I suspect asking the camera to stay positioned at the pixel level through 4 shutter actuations might be asking a bit much.
06-06-2016, 01:54 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Except possibly the fact it is mechanically impossible with the current shutter.
Do we have any information on who actually makes the shutter units for pentax cameras? they don't appear to be stock components considering the sync specifications.
06-10-2016, 06:13 AM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Nice to see someone ending the whining and take some grown up responsibility to find a solution.

If you have a second body (many seem to do), you might connect the flashes to the second body and set it to do a 5 sec intervall shooting, thus ending the need to trigger the flashes manually. You then just need to triger both cameras in sync.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I finally had some spare time to try this out.

I had started off with a still life setup but then I spotted this moth on the wall, so turned my attention to it instead.




Q7 in 5s interval shooting mode with the RF601II (wireless flash TX) that is in sync with the K1 at f11, 5s, ISO100.
One YN560IV used at 1/32 power shot thru a shoot-thru umbrella.


To me, its basically case closed to Pixel shift not being able to do strobed studio type shots.

Last edited by pinholecam; 06-10-2016 at 07:30 AM.
06-10-2016, 08:31 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Do we have any information on who actually makes the shutter units for pentax cameras? they don't appear to be stock components considering the sync specifications.
The shutters are Copal catalog product reputably built to suit.* It is my understanding that little has changed from the 70s with most Japanese cameras using shutters made by either Copal or Seiko. Is in the old days, the shutters are off the shelf with the controller being specific to the implementation.

http://www.nidec-copal.com/en-Global/product/optical/shutterdigitalcamera/


Steve

* Copal labeling is prominent on the tear down photos I have seen of various Pentax models.

Last edited by stevebrot; 06-10-2016 at 08:48 AM.
03-09-2017, 01:56 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Q7 in 5s interval shooting mode with the RF601II (wireless flash TX) that is in sync with the K1 at f11, 5s, ISO100.
One YN560IV used at 1/32 power shot thru a shoot-thru umbrella.
If you're reasonably coordinated,without an extra camera, setting the YN560IV to Multi-Mode 4x at 1Hz with the K-1 at 1s exposure time, you can trigger the K-1 and then flash for the same result. Easiest with some old PC sync cable, but holding the pilot button for 5s will do. If you have a metronome, it helps hitting the middle of the first frame at faster speeds manually.

Trouble is that you need a short delay (~50ms, or ~10ms with M.UP) for the shutter to open, so you can't simply use a dual switch. I had improvised something like that once mechanically, by a nut falling and hitting two thin wires for the shutter release before landing on the flash release wires 20cm lower. Something similar should work, but the flash trigger needs to be closed for the entire "burst" duration, so you may want the nut to kick out an insulator between a snapping contact for the flash instead.
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