Pentax K-1 Mirror slap issue?

Kunzite · 05-27-2016, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by 2351HD

The shutter shake is there OSV, it's just that they refuse to see it. It has to be there, without an EFC shutter it can not be banished, no matter how good the shutter.

So the shutter shake is there because it has to be there? Cool. That would convince everyone.

2351HD · 05-27-2016, 09:27 PM

You can't fully prove it because the camera has no EFC to compare it too.

Wheatfield · 05-27-2016, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by 2351HD

You can't fully prove it because the camera has no EFC to compare it too.

For the love of pete. All one needs to do is look at images at the pixel level.

---------- Post added 05-27-16 at 11:47 PM ----------

Originally posted by normhead

So what you;re saying here is, there's no such thing as damping? And you're quoting Newton's third law, as if that proves it?
That's a very disturbing extrapolation.

And having taught photography for 14 years, I have had access to materials where people have tested that theory and come to the conclusion, that every hand held image up to 1/1000 of a second has discernible motion blur viewed at 11x14, when compared to the same image taken with a tripod. Research would suggest that you weren't as good as you thought you were.

It's pretty safe to presume that he looked at his slides with a projector given his description, perhaps it didn't have a great lens.

**clackers** · 05-27-2016, 11:14 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by 2351HD

.

Just like my 645z, my K1 will experience exactly the same issues with shutter shake, on lenses over 90mm with shutter speeds between roughly 1/20 and 1/200, the danger zone for any lens with a normal shutter.

That's nuts! My K-1 shots with a 70-200 don't look any different shot at 1/100s or 1/1000s, or with a lens wider than 90mm.

You do too much hand-wringing for mine! ☺

Kunzite · 05-28-2016, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by 2351HD

You can't fully prove it because the camera has no EFC to compare it too.

That's not exactly true

You could compare with one frame from a Pixel Shift Resolution sequence.
You can and should prove it's a significant issue (as opposed to a theoretical problem) before saying "the shutter shake is there".

rawr · 05-28-2016, 04:50 AM - **1 Like**

Having just shot 800 images in a row (most paparazzi style, via flash in X mode @ 160/sec) for an event with the K-1, if there is a K-1 mirror slap issue, I never saw it today.

36MP K-1 behaves just like 24MP K-3, which I used to shoot the same event last year.

osv · 05-28-2016, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

For the love of pete. All one needs to do is look at images at the pixel level.

a rather important detail that the pentax user community doesn't quite seem to understand... Pentax K1 Shutter shock.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

digilloyd already compared pixel-level images, i posted his comment.

---------- Post added 05-28-16 at 12:16 PM ----------

Originally posted by 2351HD

The shutter shake is there OSV, it's just that they refuse to see it. It has to be there, without an EFC shutter it can not be banished, no matter how good the shutter.

yes, dpr proved that it's there for canon and it's there for nikon; they'll measure the k-1 for both shutter shock and mirror vibration at some point, it'll have the same issues that all dslrs have.

Zygonyx · 05-28-2016, 02:32 PM - **1 Like**

We don't understand what we don't see. And all what we see looks like mirrorless proselytism ... if not PentaxIsDoomism.

**Rondec** · 05-28-2016, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by osv

a rather important detail that the pentax user community doesn't quite seem to understand... Pentax K1 Shutter shock.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

digilloyd already compared pixel-level images, i posted his comment.

---------- Post added 05-28-16 at 12:16 PM ----------

yes, dpr proved that it's there for canon and it's there for nikon; they'll measure the k-1 for both shutter shock and mirror vibration at some point, it'll have the same issues that all dslrs have.

You only quoted part of 2351HD's quote. He also said that he thought problems with the K1 are pretty minimal.

I don't deny this might be present. I just don't see it actually spoiling any real world images.

Kunzite · 05-28-2016, 04:34 PM

The 2351HD's argument is "it's there because it has to be there"

Then we have the Sony A7R user looking for shutter shake on other brands' cameras.

**jatrax** · 05-28-2016, 05:29 PM - **1 Like**

Is there a way to put this thread out of it's misery? Drive a stake through it?

osv · 05-28-2016, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

You only quoted part of 2351HD's quote. He also said that he thought problems with the K1 are pretty minimal.

i don't find the shutter shake on my a7r to be much of an issue either, and if i wanted a ff dslr, the vibration issues certainly wouldn't stop me from buying a k-1... i think that you and i and 2351hd realize that no camera is perfect.

Wheatfield · 05-29-2016, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by osv

i don't find the shutter shake on my a7r to be much of an issue either, and if i wanted a ff dslr, the vibration issues certainly wouldn't stop me from buying a k-1... i think that you and i and 2351hd realize that no camera is perfect.

There's not perfect, and then there is insisting that because it can't be perfect, it has to have something that you have arbitrarily chosen to be wrong with it.
I put my K1 onto the back of an A*600/5.6 yesterday, put that onto a Feisol 3371 with a Wimberley gimbal and ran the camera from 1/4 second up to 1/200th second shooting a power line about a block away, both shooting mirror up and mirror down. I saw no evidence at the pixel level of blurring. I realize this is my conditions only, and YMMV, but it does tell me that for my conditions, bounce is unlikely to be an issue on this camera.

snimcho · 09-03-2016, 09:57 AM

Hello,

I'd like to ask if someone could do a short test with k-1.
Because all that k-1 shutter shock noise started from the DPR samples, it will be interesting to see if the sharpening is changing with the ISO change. It means that the speed should be the same - 1/40 and the ISO to be 100 and 800. It will show if it is Pentax image processing (increased sharpness with ISO increase) or some kind of shock.

Thanks

stevebrot · 09-03-2016, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by snimcho

Hello,

I'd like to ask if someone could do a short test with k-1.
Because all that k-1 shutter shock noise started from the DPR samples, it will be interesting to see if the sharpening is changing with the ISO change. It means that the speed should be the same - 1/40 and the ISO to be 100 and 800. It will show if it is Pentax image processing (increased sharpness with ISO increase) or some kind of shock.

Thanks

Pentax does not apply sharpening to its RAW files, though what you describe may be possible with in-camera JPEG.

Steve

05-29-2016, 07:36 AM	#133
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by osv i don't find the shutter shake on my a7r to be much of an issue either, and if i wanted a ff dslr, the vibration issues certainly wouldn't stop me from buying a k-1... i think that you and i and 2351hd realize that no camera is perfect. There's not perfect, and then there is insisting that because it can't be perfect, it has to have something that you have arbitrarily chosen to be wrong with it. I put my K1 onto the back of an A600/5.6 yesterday, put that onto a Feisol 3371 with a Wimberley gimbal and ran the camera from 1/4 second up to 1/200th second shooting a power line about a block away, both shooting mirror up and mirror down. I saw no evidence at the pixel level of blurring. I realize this is my conditions only, and YMMV, but it does tell me that for my conditions, bounce is unlikely to be an issue on this camera. Last edited by Wheatfield; 05-29-2016 at 03:23 PM.*

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05-27-2016, 02:18 PM	#121
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by 2351HD The shutter shake is there OSV, it's just that they refuse to see it. It has to be there, without an EFC shutter it can not be banished, no matter how good the shutter. So the shutter shake is there because it has to be there? Cool. That would convince everyone.

05-27-2016, 09:27 PM	#122
2351HD Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 750	You can't fully prove it because the camera has no EFC to compare it too.

05-27-2016, 09:48 PM	#123
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by 2351HD You can't fully prove it because the camera has no EFC to compare it too. For the love of pete. All one needs to do is look at images at the pixel level. ---------- Post added 05-27-16 at 11:47 PM ---------- Originally posted by normhead So what you;re saying here is, there's no such thing as damping? And you're quoting Newton's third law, as if that proves it? That's a very disturbing extrapolation. And having taught photography for 14 years, I have had access to materials where people have tested that theory and come to the conclusion, that every hand held image up to 1/1000 of a second has discernible motion blur viewed at 11x14, when compared to the same image taken with a tripod. Research would suggest that you weren't as good as you thought you were. It's pretty safe to presume that he looked at his slides with a projector given his description, perhaps it didn't have a great lens.

05-27-2016, 11:14 PM - 1 Like	#124
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by 2351HD . Just like my 645z, my K1 will experience exactly the same issues with shutter shake, on lenses over 90mm with shutter speeds between roughly 1/20 and 1/200, the danger zone for any lens with a normal shutter. That's nuts! My K-1 shots with a 70-200 don't look any different shot at 1/100s or 1/1000s, or with a lens wider than 90mm. You do too much hand-wringing for mine! ☺

05-28-2016, 02:10 AM	#125
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by 2351HD You can't fully prove it because the camera has no EFC to compare it too. That's not exactly true You could compare with one frame from a Pixel Shift Resolution sequence. You can and should prove it's a significant issue (as opposed to a theoretical problem) before saying "the shutter shake is there".

05-28-2016, 04:50 AM - 1 Like	#126
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Having just shot 800 images in a row (most paparazzi style, via flash in X mode @ 160/sec) for an event with the K-1, if there is a K-1 mirror slap issue, I never saw it today. 36MP K-1 behaves just like 24MP K-3, which I used to shoot the same event last year.

05-28-2016, 12:08 PM	#127
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Wheatfield For the love of pete. All one needs to do is look at images at the pixel level. a rather important detail that the pentax user community doesn't quite seem to understand... Pentax K1 Shutter shock.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review digilloyd already compared pixel-level images, i posted his comment. ---------- Post added 05-28-16 at 12:16 PM ---------- Originally posted by 2351HD The shutter shake is there OSV, it's just that they refuse to see it. It has to be there, without an EFC shutter it can not be banished, no matter how good the shutter. yes, dpr proved that it's there for canon and it's there for nikon; they'll measure the k-1 for both shutter shock and mirror vibration at some point, it'll have the same issues that all dslrs have.

05-28-2016, 02:32 PM - 1 Like	#128
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	We don't understand what we don't see. And all what we see looks like mirrorless proselytism ... if not PentaxIsDoomism.

05-28-2016, 02:49 PM	#129
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by osv a rather important detail that the pentax user community doesn't quite seem to understand... Pentax K1 Shutter shock.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review digilloyd already compared pixel-level images, i posted his comment. ---------- Post added 05-28-16 at 12:16 PM ---------- yes, dpr proved that it's there for canon and it's there for nikon; they'll measure the k-1 for both shutter shock and mirror vibration at some point, it'll have the same issues that all dslrs have. You only quoted part of 2351HD's quote. He also said that he thought problems with the K1 are pretty minimal. I don't deny this might be present. I just don't see it actually spoiling any real world images.

05-28-2016, 04:34 PM	#130
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The 2351HD's argument is "it's there because it has to be there" Then we have the Sony A7R user looking for shutter shake on other brands' cameras.

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05-28-2016, 05:29 PM - 1 Like	#131
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Is there a way to put this thread out of it's misery? Drive a stake through it?

05-28-2016, 08:18 PM	#132
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Rondec You only quoted part of 2351HD's quote. He also said that he thought problems with the K1 are pretty minimal. i don't find the shutter shake on my a7r to be much of an issue either, and if i wanted a ff dslr, the vibration issues certainly wouldn't stop me from buying a k-1... i think that you and i and 2351hd realize that no camera is perfect.

09-03-2016, 09:57 AM	#134
snimcho Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 79	Hello, I'd like to ask if someone could do a short test with k-1. Because all that k-1 shutter shock noise started from the DPR samples, it will be interesting to see if the sharpening is changing with the ISO change. It means that the speed should be the same - 1/40 and the ISO to be 100 and 800. It will show if it is Pentax image processing (increased sharpness with ISO increase) or some kind of shock. Thanks

09-03-2016, 03:13 PM	#135
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by snimcho Hello, I'd like to ask if someone could do a short test with k-1. Because all that k-1 shutter shock noise started from the DPR samples, it will be interesting to see if the sharpening is changing with the ISO change. It means that the speed should be the same - 1/40 and the ISO to be 100 and 800. It will show if it is Pentax image processing (increased sharpness with ISO increase) or some kind of shock. Thanks Pentax does not apply sharpening to its RAW files, though what you describe may be possible with in-camera JPEG. Steve