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05-05-2016, 08:28 PM   #1
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Pixel shift results from DPreview

No alias: Pentax K-1 Pixel Shift shows impressive early results: Digital Photography Review

Pentax 645 used 90mm f2.8 macro, Nikon used 85mm f1.4, and Pentax FF used FA 77mm f1.8 limited.

I downloaded all raw files to look closer. Well, pixel shift is not that effective from these images I feel. D810 beat all Pentax cameras base on those images. Pentax 645 with 90mm is quite disappointing tho. I can't see the difference between Pixel shift on and off.

Any thoughts?

05-05-2016, 08:39 PM   #2
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If you're not using the proper software to process the Pixel Shift RAW files you won't see any difference. What did you use to look at the RAW files?
05-05-2016, 08:52 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
Any thoughts?
Already being discussed.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/320346-dpr-pixel-shift-comparison.html

The opinion on the part of the DPR test staff is that the lens used has problems. They are going to redo with another copy.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-05-2016 at 09:02 PM.
05-05-2016, 09:09 PM   #4
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Plus it seems the D810 had extra sharpening processed on their images..

So the Pentax was tested with a soft lens and the D810 was tested with extra sharpening.. hahaha

05-05-2016, 10:41 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlatjsrud Quote
No alias: Pentax K-1 Pixel Shift shows impressive early results: Digital Photography Review

Pentax 645 used 90mm f2.8 macro, Nikon used 85mm f1.4, and Pentax FF used FA 77mm f1.8 limited.

I downloaded all raw files to look closer. Well, pixel shift is not that effective from these images I feel. D810 beat all Pentax cameras base on those images. Pentax 645 with 90mm is quite disappointing tho. I can't see the difference between Pixel shift on and off.

Any thoughts?
I think the Nikon has the sharper lens. I did look at the pixel shift before and after of the K1. It seems like the after PS of the K1 matched the D810 and it is slightly better in certain areas of the test image. Both Pentaxes suffer in the corners where the Nikon lens shines. My go to section to see differences for center of the image is the dollar bill with the coins. Lots of fine lines to resolve. The K1 PS is the best of the bunch. However the Nikon matches it in certain other areas. The corners are a different story altogether. I don't know what is going on with these Pentax lenses. I know they are good but why such a poor performance in the corners?

We did our own test of the K1 (with the 28-105) yesterday. In certain images the PS effect is clearly visible and certain others you cannot tell the difference. Today I tried my FA 77 at f8 to see more of what a "better" lens can do. For the fun of it I also shot the same thing at 200mm with my Tamron 70-200. Boy did I get a big surprise. In the corner of the image the Tamron at 200mm at f4 is visibly sharper than the mighty FA77 at f8. I know this was not a scientific test so I do not want to draw any final conclusion.

In the test we did yesterday (at my friend's studio) we also shot his Sony A6000 just for the heck of it. One thing is sure the K1 is far out when it comes to detail, color fidelity and accuracy. The Sony picture looks like it came from a point and shoot camera... and the K1 from a medium format! I was too lazy to take out my K3 out of the bag to do a more "fair" comparison. However, today I did shoot the K3 next to the K1. The difference is noticeable. There is a lot more detail in the K1 shots.

I got the K1 to shoot and print larger files of my nature pictures. I think I got THE camera at a bargain price. I have never posted images in the forum posts. If I can figure it out, I will post some images of what I am talking about.

I held back on the K1 purchase thinking I was gonna go with the 645Z. By next week, I will list the few 645 lenses I had acquired in anticipation of the 645Z. I do not think I am gonna need them anymore! The K1 is going to deliver and deliver big for me. I just have to figure out what lenses make it shine more.

Last edited by btnapa; 05-05-2016 at 10:44 PM. Reason: typo
05-05-2016, 11:33 PM - 1 Like   #6
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Wait! Wait!
just wait!


Before we go into more big theories again and throw everyone off tangent.


Richard Bulter's response on DPR :


"The 100mm Macro is considerably longer than we'd usually use for our studio scene, so we'd prefer not to use that unless we have to.

We have just received a second copy of the 77mm from Ricoh, having had to rent the existing one from LensRentals. We'll be checking to see which copy is better and will make sure the best possible images are posted.

However, let us keep this in perspective. The K-1 studio shots look very good and it should be clear that having some softness in one corner cannot be the result of the camera body. We will do our best to get the best result we can but we're not going to go to increasing extremes in order to push for an unattainable degree of perfection.

Richard - dpreview.com

"


So I'd not read too much into the current results on DPR for now
05-06-2016, 12:19 AM   #7
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Yeah, "it should be clear that having some softness in one corner cannot be the result of the camera body". In the meanwhile, certain kind of people are posting images with the grass/foliage (you know, those near the corners and moved by the HVAC currents) to "prove" how badly the K-1 "loses".
05-06-2016, 03:11 AM   #8
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The default ACR setting for the 810 sharpened the cr*p out of the image. Thats why the aliasing is way worse despite the 810 having a AA filter while the K1 does not. (unless it was switched on by mistake) Then the lens used was slightly de-centred/field curvature/flat battery. DPR should use flat field lenses(macro) in their testing of sensors. 100mm for FF, 70mm(sigma) for aps-c and 50mm for 4/3rds.

05-06-2016, 05:36 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yeah, "it should be clear that having some softness in one corner cannot be the result of the camera body". In the meanwhile, certain kind of people are posting images with the grass/foliage (you know, those near the corners and moved by the HVAC currents) to "prove" how badly the K-1 "loses".
I think k-1 does an admirable job at it, but I am a little concerned with the lens now - it's pretty obvious k-1 is a great camera with great capabilities but are there any lens that can keep up? I'm seriously thinking of upgrading from my aging k-5, but what would be the point of there are no lens that can do proper justice of that sensor? I have a Japan made FA77 but these aren't really designed for absolute sharpness anyway... I don't particularly buy the argument that the lens copy is defective either but would like to wait and see...

Does anyone know what lens options tested are equivalent to the great (but expensive) lens Nikon offers? Sharpness corner to corner...
05-06-2016, 05:43 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yassarian Quote

Does anyone know what lens options tested are equivalent to the great (but expensive) lens Nikon offers? Sharpness corner to corner...
I think Pentax, I think the rendering, Yassarian, but if you like, go for the D FA f2.8 zooms, the 50mm and 100mm f2.8 macro primes, the Samyang and Zeiss primes, Sigma 35mm and 70mm primes, Tamron 90mm, etc.
05-06-2016, 05:47 AM   #11
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Perhaps Adam or one of the PF staffers can run similar tests with better glass on the Pentax. As for the claim of not seeing any difference between the pixel shift vs normal the browser viewer isn't very good. Download the RAW files and view them in DCU 5.5.1 - there is quite a bit of difference if you look at the Beatles patch or the lock of hair. You can see strands of hair that the Nikon doesn't pick up.

- edit-

Here's a similar test from Imaging Resource. They compare the K-1, K3ii, Canon EOS 5DS R, 645z, Nikon 810, Sony A7R II, and Olympus PEN-F. They used the Sigma 70mm macro on the Canon, Nikon and K-mounts. For the Sony they used the Sony FE 55mm F1.8 ZA, Olympus - Zuiko Digital ED 50mm F2.0 Macro and the 645z - smc PENTAX-D FA 645 55mm F2.8 AL [IF] SDM.

They only provide JPEGs.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/pentax-k1/pentax-k1A.HTM#tech2

Last edited by Not a Number; 05-06-2016 at 06:19 AM.
05-06-2016, 07:37 AM   #12
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the new D FA 2.8 (Tamron design?) is expected to out-perform the FA limited in terms of sharpness? I do have the DFA 100 macro as well, would be great to see some test of it in the future.

I get rendering, I like my FA77, but I would think that when Pentax is advertising this pixel shift thing it's with sharpness and resolving power in mind. Yet, seems like all the sharper lens are made by 3rd party?

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think Pentax, I think the rendering, Yassarian, but if you like, go for the D FA f2.8 zooms, the 50mm and 100mm f2.8 macro primes, the Samyang and Zeiss primes, Sigma 35mm and 70mm primes, Tamron 90mm, etc.
05-06-2016, 07:49 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
They used the Sigma 70mm macro...
That is why I prefer Imaging Resource's test shots. They shoot the same lens* for their image tests. I also prefer their target image or DPReview's.


Steve
05-06-2016, 12:37 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Wait! Wait!
just wait!


Before we go into more big theories again and throw everyone off tangent.


Richard Bulter's response on DPR :


"The 100mm Macro is considerably longer than we'd usually use for our studio scene, so we'd prefer not to use that unless we have to.

We have just received a second copy of the 77mm from Ricoh, having had to rent the existing one from LensRentals. We'll be checking to see which copy is better and will make sure the best possible images are posted.

However, let us keep this in perspective. The K-1 studio shots look very good and it should be clear that having some softness in one corner cannot be the result of the camera body. We will do our best to get the best result we can but we're not going to go to increasing extremes in order to push for an unattainable degree of perfection.

Richard - dpreview.com

"


So I'd not read too much into the current results on DPR for now
I have a range of views on this...
  1. DPReview could have told LensRentals what they were going to do with the lens (especially when they publically thank LensRentals for the unit - just toss them under the bus, why don't you). LensRentals has a $100K optical bench that they could have run the lens through, aligning it - thereby providing as perfect a lens as possible.
  2. LensRentals apparently just pulled a 77Ltd off the shelf sending it out. They check their lenses and this one was OK (for just about all uses other than a critical review of a new body).
  3. Now, having said all of that - a lens off the shelf should be OK, but then again having an OK lens provide a basis for an early review of the K-1 on DPReview - letting everyone take pot shots (just reading the comments there had the full range of soup to nuts).
So, a randomly selected lens should be OK - representative results of what most folks will see. On the other hand, if you are going to do a critical review of a body, get the best lens available so as to ONLY show up any issues with the body. Then again, the Canon and Nikon folks (and there were some snide remarks in the comments) got what they wanted - another opportunity to take pot shots at anything Pentax.

So, the initial comment of Wait! Wait! just wait! - I think is a bit off the mark. Richard had a choice of options available to him. Also, DPR has not always been the most friendlies of places to anything Pentax in the past - so he is dragging a bit of history with him. He could have put forth a bit more of an effort.

I will say, that Pentax could have expected this. 85mm lenses appear to be one of the standard primes reviewers like to use. They could have made some custom 77's available for review (it would have been in their best interest) - and also, they could have considered including a new 85mm prime in the initial roll-out. In this respect Pentax is just being Pentax, and not thinking the entire introduction / roll-out process / approach out in advanced. Some malice of forethought does help.

That begs the question as to the pedigreed of the other lenses that were used?

There is enough egg on the face for everyone concerned here. It's impossible to make all the folks happy, all of the time....

05-06-2016, 12:48 PM   #15
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I wouldn't be surprised to discover Denver doesn't have a tested-to-spec loaner 77 just lying around, and Pentax Denver is managing the DPReview outreach.

These are things Nikon and Canon have done 100 times; their internal marketing group considers them routine. Pentax hasn't done anything like this in years. Maybe decades.
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