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05-19-2016, 09:21 AM   #1
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K1 Alternative in a Lighter, slightly Reduced Spec Body

Assuming the K1 shows that there is a market for a Pentax branded Full Frame, what do you think is the likelyhood of Ricoh introducing one for the experienced amateur in a lighter re-inforced plastic body similar in build to the K-S2 / K50 all be it with a slightly reduced spec.

Changes could include in built flash for emergency use rather than than the GPS / Astro Tracer, simpler articulating screen (like the K-S2), fewer buttons etc. (more like the K5ll / lls), bringing back the dust alert function. I would however keep the top LCD and anti-aliasing mechnism like the K-S2.

Hopefully this could reduce the body only weight to something like the K5 ll / K3. If it (the body) then was marketed at about 75% of the K1's price and teamed up with primes or the 28mm -105mm zoom you would have a fantastic relatively low cost, relatively light weight package for most photographic subjects. It would also beat similar offerings from Nikon / Canon by a mile. It could be called the K-F1. (Remember the Spotimatic F?)

05-19-2016, 09:34 AM   #2
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i don't see the need for what you have described as a consumer level, plastic APS-C model, but with a FF sensor. Why does an enthusiast need a FF sensor over an APS-C? I cannot figure out what demographic would be targeted with a plastic FF K3.
05-19-2016, 09:38 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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As I keep saying in various places...whatever the next camera is going to be...I would expect to see some better video in it. It's the only thing left to "innovate" concerning Pentax cameras. A wild card would be a "Ricoh" video-centric camera with k-mount or K-mount adapter.
05-19-2016, 09:39 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
don't see the need for what you have described as a consumer level, plastic APS-C model, but with a FF sensor
Those who fell for the FF equivalists and fetishize FF, but do not want to spend that much money.
Which is a fairly big market segment these days. It used to be just MP, now its MP and sensor size

QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
A wild card would be a "Ricoh" video-centric camera with k-mount or K-mount adapter.
Now that's an interesting idea. You are right, of course, Pentax has not been near the forefront of video functions in DSLRs. I assume the video camera would be without inbody SR? I remember Ricoh saying that is a major problem for video in general, as it produces heat and audible noise

05-19-2016, 09:44 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by LoneWolf Quote
what do you think is the likelyhood of Ricoh introducing one for the experienced amateur in a lighter re-inforced plastic body similar in build to the K-S2 / K50 all be it with a slightly reduced spec.
I would say slim to none. I suspect they will introduce another APS-C body with high end features. But a low end FF? I don't think so. The Pentax market share is too small to have so many models.
05-19-2016, 09:47 AM - 4 Likes   #6
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I hope not. As it is the K-1 is a pretty exceptional value proposition, and that's part of the reason it's been so successful. Ok, so let's assume they cheapen up the build of the K-1. What are they going to cheapen up exactly?

* A slower and louder shutter? That would cost money to develop.
* A 98% coverage, 0.6 magnification viewfinder? That will cost money to develop.
* remove some features from the firmware? That will cost money to develop.
* a cheaper, less good sensor? The saving probably isn't going to be that great.
* replace the mag alloy body with something cheaper? maybe remove the weather sealing? It'll just be panned in reviews.

How about this: instead of wasting development money on a cheap FF camera, why not spend that money on a better AF module and improved shutter speed for a K-1ii, which you can release in two years time? If that ends up at a list price of 1600, and the K-1 drops to 1200, it will end up keeping everyone happy. One of the reasons I like Pentax, is that they don't hobble the capabilities of their lower end cameras. I like the fact that I can still buy a brand new K-3, even though the K-3ii exists. The more expensive k-3ii option represents phenomenal value at its current list price, the K-3 even more so. Given the great reception of the K-1, given that it's a phenomenal value proposition as is, I'd prefer Pentax to simply carry on what they are doing (hell the 645z, whilst out of my price range, still represents great value for money). This is what Pentax do. I like them for it. No, I'd prefer them to invest the money in the areas where they have a little catching up to do, and provide that new technology at a price point that is affordable to those of us who are willing to fund that r&D.
05-19-2016, 09:49 AM   #7
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I would love to have a lighter K-1 just for the couple stops of high ISO advantages compared to K-3. But I don't think there's room for a lower end K-1 model from price point of view plus it's a small segment.
05-19-2016, 09:58 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by LoneWolf Quote
Assuming the K1 shows that there is a market for a Pentax branded Full Frame, what do you think is the likelyhood of Ricoh introducing one for the experienced amateur in a lighter re-inforced plastic body similar in build to the K-S2 / K50 all be it with a slightly reduced spec.
If you consider using new lenses, the K1 isn't the most expensive part, it's already priced low and may drop down to $1500 within less than 2 years. The trend with all brands is increasing of prices for new lenses and new bodies to compensate for drop of market due to lot of people leaving their cameras at home and using a smartphone. If you consider using old glass, then a lower cost FF would make sense but then it wouldn't bring much money to Ricoh.

If I look in my crystal ball, it says that the DSLR market splits into two portions: the people upgrading to FF format and the people who currently keep APSC so they can continue to use their current small lenses and get very good images without having to spend a trillion in a new system. Ricoh is likely to serve the part of customers who don't upgrade to FF by upgrading the K3 (e.g D500 style camera) to serve folks who stay with APSC and will benefit from the next tech of APSC (likely BIS). Then the next upgrade of Pentax FF maybe with video and BIS sensor (taken from Sony A7RII).

05-19-2016, 10:01 AM - 2 Likes   #9
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People seem to keep asking for more and more different models and lines, ignoring the fact that Ricoh Imaging is a small manufacturer that cannot support R&D for a million lines. We have the K-S1, K-S2, apparently a successor to the K-50 soon, the K3 II, K-1, 645Z - that's six parallel lines already. And now people are asking for a lower specced FF and a higher specced K3 (akin to the 7D Mk II and D500).
05-19-2016, 10:09 AM   #10
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In the same manner as the Leica 60, a basic, fully manual proper vintage retro would be good. But I can't see there's sufficient market for it. The K-1 is already a pretty cheap option and that's at launch.
05-19-2016, 10:10 AM   #11
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I would like a K3iii with 24-28MP sensor (would not say no to Samsungs BSI 28mp sensor) but with a hybrid on sensor and off sensor pdaf system that would allow good af in video.

I wouldn't mind the K1 AF system being ported to APSC - coupled with a higher FPS it would be pretty incredible.
05-19-2016, 10:41 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
We have the K-S1, K-S2, apparently a successor to the K-50 soon, the K3 II, K-1, 645Z - that's six parallel lines already. And now people are asking for a lower specced FF and a higher specced K3 (akin to the 7D Mk II and D500).
Don't forget the Q
05-19-2016, 10:55 AM   #13
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Why would Ricoh/Pentax introduce a camera with a lower profit margin that would also steal sales from the K-1? K-1 is a good value proposition for FF.

A K-3III with better video and improved anti-shake seems a lot smarter in grabbing sales from NiCan and keeping current Pentax APS-C DSLR owners interested in keeping it in the family, so to speak. Or some kind of focus peaking overlay in the optical viewfinder.

Personally I'd like to see them aim some engineering firepower on some different wide fast primes instead, like a D FA 15, 20, or 24...
05-19-2016, 11:05 AM   #14
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I don't see the problem with the weight of the K-1. I don't consider it heavy at all and I'm an old weakling. The A series zoom lenses that I use are heavier than the K-1 body. It doesn't sound like the OP really needs a FF body in any case and lowering the specs won't lower the price point as you're asking for a whole new body. Wait a couple of years and after the K-1 II comes out and you'll find a used K-1 for a good price. Just my $0.02.
05-19-2016, 11:17 AM - 1 Like   #15
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Since the K-3II and KS-2 already are excellent bodies that produce excellent results I'm struggling to find a reason for this. If the K-1 was 4500.00 USD maybe there would be room for a $1500 body or $2000 body but since Pentax was so aggressive in pricing there is little room between the K-1 and the K-3II. The practical upshot of this is that you don't have room in the price structure to intro this camera that you are talking about.
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