[ivorianebony]

do you really want to say, you dont know what i meant by "we need a spotmatic" effect?

- eat more bananas. :P

Sry, but i thought it was obvious and that you would be able to make the conclusion that we would need something that sells the way the spotmatic did compared to todays sales numbers...

And now please go and bring me a new Ferrari for 90.000-100.000bucks. oh wait, that is not possible... because the cheapest Ferarri nowadays costs about 200.000USD.
Now go please explain to me, I am so dumb i dont understand that.

[RonHendriks1966]

But, while 4 million SLR cameras in a decade (1966 to 1976) was market-leading for those times, these days it corresponds to a market share of about 4%. Around 9.7 million SLRs were made and shipped last year (and 3.2 mirrorless ILCs).

Oh last year was so great......This year we will probably sell less then 10 million units dslr and milc all together. The market is shrinking fast. Pentax doesn't sell 400.000 units a year. So that would be exceptional to have that. I think Pentax can be happy with 100k units this year for k-mount. But those are bringing in much more money then last year, with the K-1.

[Kunzite]

Assuming a constant 7,000 K-1 units sold, that makes for over 60,000 K-1 units for the entire year (since April). Sure, I'm not factoring in the effect of the Kumamoto earthquakes - but neither for the larger initial batches, nor for eventual upwards production adjustment.
Then, there are the other products - APS-C K-mount DSLRs, the 645z; you might want to raise your estimation.

do you really want to say, you dont know what i meant by "we need a spotmatic" effect?

Often, obvious things are those that need explaining the most. But you might have meant a magical product, one which by itself would make Pentax the dominant SLR brand all of the sudden despite the intense competition. However, this is not what the Spotmatic did.

[RonHendriks1966]

Assuming a constant 7,000 K-1 units sold, that makes for over 60,000 K-1 units for the entire year (since April). Sure, I'm not factoring in the effect of the Kumamoto earthquakes - but neither for the larger initial batches, nor for eventual upwards production adjustment.
Then, there are the other products - APS-C K-mount DSLRs, the 645z; you might want to raise your estimation.

I said K-mount, so Q and 645Z are not in my estimation. Half of it K-1 (quake counted in and I don't see a rise in production yet, there is stock overhere) and the rest for K-3ii, K-S2 and K-70 (and who know some K-50 and K-s1, but if they alady shippe you can't count them twice).

[Kunzite]

So... when exactly did they start the production for the K-1?

[ivorianebony]

However, this is not what the Spotmatic did.

no it did not. but it spreaded the brand amongst people... And as you see, nowadays its all about beeing seen or "going viral" as a brand.

if you dont know it already, because you are really interested in technical things and the bang for the buck factor... and nobody in your family would have had a PENTAX.
Would you even realize that it is on the shelf next to some lower priced Nikon?

There should be ONE, just ONE really awesomely priced product on the shelf from PENTAX that doesnt give anything about what all the preceding PENTAX cameras offered or what consumers that bought a same priced product would say if the new DSLR could do 2times more for the same price or less.
Or just offer less features but something that no one else offers... For instance a 16MP Full Frame DSLR that can do nothing else than take photos with a nice burst rate of 6-8fps... in a magnesium alloy body that is weather sealed.
No UHS-II, no USB3.0, not even a second card slot, no wifi built-in, no-gps built-in, no headphone jack, not even a TOP-LCD, but a tilt-LCD, K-5 body design and amazingly cheap. give it a unique touch color the leather brown and the body black, apply a bit chrome on the mode dial.. or vice versa or i dunno... but you get the point.
Just raw Camera, amazingly cheap but durable. For 800 bucks with a cheap plastic DC WR 35mm F:3.2 lens.

Now the only thing you would have to do further is marketing.
MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING,
for only that very special product. And market only this and hype, hype, hype,...

Just like they did with the GOpro.
Find young people that have fun doing photography and let them represent the brand.
Why on gods earth would i want any pricey APS-C Nikon, if i could have such a package from PENTAX for a killer-price...


Voila, PENTAX would gain market share perceptibly. I would go so far and bet 500 bucks on that such a thing would be the real deal-breaker.

After you have such a package in your hands, you would immediately want to upgrade to a newer or ""better"" PENTAX after less than half a year i guess, because you would really fall in love with the PENTAX-brand&photography and you would want more. Be it more or faster lenses, be it some other PENTAX DSLR.


And talking about the real deal...Since the thread is named "24mp full frame K mount camera, possible?" i wanted to note everybody who is involved at Ricoh-Imaging, that speaking for my person only, i would be the guy who would wait for a
24MP FF that does good at video, shoots 9-10fps, has USB3.0, UHS-II or/and XQD or UFS,
plus all the features of the K-1 except :
fr.. wheels,
moonlander and
a crippled top-LCD

and yes i would pay 2600-3000Euro for it.

though that I am sure, such a product(real professional DSLR) would not mean much more market share for the PENTAX brand and RICOH-Imaging.

[Kunzite]

For Pete's sake, a company that makes crippled products sold through marketing? That's not our Pentax. Ask somebody else to do it; perhaps some Chinese company. You're asking for this: "Olympia" camera - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia made digital.

Besides, the way you're crippling the imaginary camera doesn't make sense... it's a mess from different ideas.
- do you want a hype-based product? Look at what Fujifilm does: retro styled, but modern products. They're nowhere near cheap.
- do you want a special ("Limited-like") camera, retro not only in style but also simplicity? That's what Leica does. At Leica prices.
- do you want the cheapest mass volume product? Then, don't remove the features that attracts the masses.
- do you want aggressive marketing? Marketing has a cost which must be integrated into the product's price.
And even if you'd have the perfect plan guaranteed to raise Pentax' sales by an order of magnitude (which you definitely don't, because if it would exist the competition would be able to follow it, too - and we'd be back to square one) - the cost of raising the production by an order of magnitude would be huge.
Or as they say: "you know nothing, Jon Snow".

As for GoPro, such a nice example... do you know they're doing quite badly, these days?

Last but not least, prepare to spend at least 5-6000 euro for your "real professional DSLR". Performance is costly.

---

Last edited by Kunzite; 08-22-2016 at 09:31 AM.

[ivorianebony]

FTF: One cant cripple an imaginery camera. repeat a 100 times pls.
If you want to write it down.

BTW. i dont think a K-5 with better AF and 16MP FF-sensor is such a bad idea, and i think brown leather and chrome application as found on the Pentax K-x will not ruin pentax as you can/could buy cameras from the "K-?0" line in nearly every color. How you take this and lead this to fuji.. it strikes me "questionably".

For Pete's sake, a company that makes crippled products sold through marketing? That's not our Pentax. Ask somebody else to do it; perhaps some Chinese company. You're asking for this: "Olympia" camera - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia made digital.

Besides, the way you're crippling the imaginary camera doesn't make sense... it's a mess from different ideas.
- do you want a hype-based product? Look at what Fujifilm does: retro styled, but modern products. They're nowhere near cheap.
- do you want a special ("Limited-like") camera, retro not only in style but also simplicity? That's what Leica does. At Leica prices.
- do you want the cheapest mass volume product? Then, don't remove the features that attracts the masses.
- do you want aggressive marketing? Marketing has a cost which must be integrated into the product's price.
And even if you'd have the perfect plan guaranteed to raise Pentax' sales by an order of magnitude (which you definitely don't, because if it would exist the competition would be able to follow it, too - and we'd be back to square one) - the cost of raising the production by an order of magnitude would be huge.
Or as they say: "you know nothing, Jon Snow".

As for GoPro, such a nice example... do you know they're doing quite badly, these days?

Last but not least, prepare to spend at least 5-6000 euro for your "real professional DSLR". Performance is costly.

HOW you always turn things around... Kuni i love it. really.

The same bad idea like a 360deg camera? Maybe *rofl*

You compared Fuji with that idea. Why? Is it comparable? I dont think so. Fuji offers no 35mm digital. None. ZIP. nada. and i dont care about retro... (I dont even find that word in the post you are refering to... )

Or as they say: "you know nothing, Jon Snow".

i want to turn this exact sentence back to you. just think about what YOU KNOW about asian business.
My father bought parts/components for a cell-phone maker, so if I know one thing for sure:
The higher the magnitude the cheaper the production. If you missed something, we are not talking about cabinetmakers here.

Just because you maligned me: Where in gods name did i say "plastic body"? I cant repeat often enough: Read before you write. ts ts ts

GoPro failed at evolution. Not at the dealbreaker product.
Pentax doesnt fail at evolution. Pentax fails at the dealbreaker product that consumes consumers...

like i said before.. i was talking, wishing for 2 products.
One for my very own person. - Be it 2.800(i guessed that just for a price point at which Ricoh would dare to offer it) or 5.000, I actually do not care. Really.(if they offer nice lenses with stabilization also)

One for fishing out PENTAX of that murky water it is soaking in at the moment.
And yes, the cheapest mass volume-product(still durable) with aggressive marketing would do the trick here.

And be there competition or not.
Who runs first beyond the finish line wins the race. Especially if he has set up his own league. (What a cheap 16MP FF Camera with 6-8fps nowadays would be for sure- an own league)- The next race is a whole other thing. But PENTAX seems to be set up real good for getting better in some other league.

BTW: Kunzite... Where is your input? You always try to nag on other peoples ideas or suggestions. But where are your own???

in short:
Fatalism is always a "way out" for the non-believers. They fit in the church the best.
I thought if you give me a link i will have to give you one in return ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalism
or maybe one more ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy (just fits, when i think about the link you posted)

[Kunzite]

I never said anything against the Ricoh Theta. You accused me in the past of having attacked the Pentax FF, and of lying, and... oh, why bother. I lost too much time feeding you.
Boriscletoed.

[jlstrawman]

Boriscletoed.

Most excellent idea. Life is too short. Boriscletoed.

[Barry Pearson]

do you really want to say, you dont know what i meant by "we need a spotmatic" effect?
....
Sry, but i thought it was obvious and that you would be able to make the conclusion that we would need something that sells the way the spotmatic did compared to todays sales numbers...

I started using a Spotmatic S1A in 1967. In the early 1970s I bought two SP500s, which were simplified Spotmatics. (I still have them). So I've probably had more experience with Pentax Spotmatics than the majority of people here. And probably more experience than you!

Those were days when the major shooting-time contributions to image quality really came from lenses and films. My Spotmatics were basically a way to hold a lens in front of a film and ensure that it had the right exposure. It did so well, with a good viewfinder and focusing scheme. (It didn't succeed because it was simple. It succeeded because it was effective).

Lenses remain important. Film has been replaced with technology in the camera (and post-processing). To satisfy the range of image-quality options desired by photographers, previously achieved by changing films and filters and developers, cameras need lots of features in menus, etc.

So - what can Ricoh do with dSLRs to have the same impact on photographers that the Spotmatics did? Nothing that anyone here can think of! The market is too mature; vast numbers of options have already been explored. There is no evidence that "simple" sells in large numbers; except perhaps in mobile phones. Do we want Pentax to major on mobile phones?

Talk of a "Spotmatic effect" is just a way of avoiding identifying tangible proposals that would achieve the desired end. And that is because no one has such a tangible proposal.

[Parallax]

Boriscletoed.

Most excellent idea. Life is too short. Boriscletoed.

No need.

[jatrax]

No need.

Thank you.

[jlstrawman]

No need.

+1.

Thanks.