Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-14-2016, 12:54 PM   #106
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tromsų, Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 922
QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Check out lenses and lens prices for the FF system. If you want to pay less it is not for you.
I dont agree. I have a collection of FF lenses and I paid quite little for it. You don't need the newest lenses to use a K-1.

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
They have a full range of APS-C lenses and need to update these cameras as well with similar pixel counts.
36 Mp APS-C? Why? 24 is plenty, maybe even too much for many of us. Pixel count basically just follows what Sony is producing.

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
As long as people buy Pentax why on earth should they lower the price.
So more people buy Pentax.. Or do you think their long term goal for the FF investment is to keep the market share stably low?

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
I would expect an K1 update within 2 years with K1 dropping in price - this will be your entry level camera.
K-1 holds some expensive components and high end features. It makes sense to make a cost cut version which marks a distance to the high end model. Pentax needs to identify bottlenecks and increase production capacity before they can launch this cost cut model.

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Pentax does not really lack cameras right now, they lack lenses.
Many FF lenses will come in 2017. Pentax have had several APS-C cameras available simultaneously the last years. They can have more then one FF camera too.

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
And the medium format line also needs attention.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they should stay with only one FF camera.

07-14-2016, 04:34 PM - 2 Likes   #107
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,424
I think the point was about people also buying lenses. I agree with zapp, they won't try to make a significantly cheaper camera just because some people won't pay for a K-1 (that in itself doesn't mean there's a large enough market for a "K-1 lite"); and I would add, especially if there would be no/few additional lens sales.

24 might be plenty, but 36 are plentier There are good reasons for the higher resolution, namely the ability to crop (important, as many of us are migrating from APS-C) and that it makes the K-1 a "D810-like at an amazing price", instead of a "better but more expensive D610".

There are only 5 lenses on the D FA lens roadmap, nowhere near enough. Where's the full line of affordable zooms? The affordable, and the top of the line primes covering all the bases? It will take some time to sort the FF K-mount out.

In the future, they might have a 2-tier FF; but for now, I can't see it happening.
07-26-2016, 05:27 PM   #108
Banned




Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 19
The exact same people, that said, that a Pentax FF would make no sense and may not arrive until the year 2525, now say that 24mp FF with fast framerates makes no sense and will not see the market anytime .

oh wow.. see ? ... a FF arrived.(not exactly what would be good for the most pentax buyers but OK, its FF, a PENTAX and certainly LOOKS like a serious camera- despite those "wheels of redundancy" and the ridiculously small top info-display, BTW why not OLED with vari-info if already that small?)

same people who said that pentax would not invest in developing features good for video... and now.. whoops a new experiment(K-70) with hybrid AF in LV-mode just arrived...

same people who would hang other people, just for using capital letters or telling the truth about the K-1.
Which is actually a lame camera, that could have been a good camera if some market researchers wouldnt have given so much about the loud voices of blown up egos on the forums...

Peeps, it seems there is no way around this, if you want to change something. you will have to get yourself heard also. and dont believe anything just because some guy took a forum-name that sounds japanese... maybe he is just... ok .. lets say : something else than he wants to be.

Just let us know what you think. Dont give anything about those "trolls with correct forum behaviour.", that talk around the same issue a dozen times and about who is right and why.
Just post, what you want and why you want it.

The truth is out there and its neither 36MP(not even all professionals make use of) nor is it 4fps...


IMHO the K-1 just sells so good for being PENTAX and FF... and for nothing else. (OK Pixelshift may be a reason but it stops right there...)
it could sell much better with USB3.0 on board, fast framerates and an operability much more like the NX1 ... no matter how high above 24MP the Megapixel count is...
If the NX1 would have been lets say a GX4 ...
it would have been the dealbreaker for me that would have made me ignore any upcoming FF-PENTAX and i really invested much hope that PENTAX should not be much behind the NX1 especially when looking at the OS and its essential features(hooking up to wifis and upload...etc.....) it offers in deep the oldschool look and how to access menupoints is still OK..... but now i am a bit paralyzed by the fact that its just a D800E with pixelshift.
What it offers (except Pixelshift of course) effectively is nothing more than a 4 year old Megapixel-Monster from Nikon... Where is the gain?
would be OK if the upped the burst to 6fps (ff) but no. just like the Nikon its just about 4 frames... LOL...

I am sure we will see a new FF "experiment" soon as technically(earthquake) possible, but anyway, i will wait for the next APS-C that can compete with Canon 7DII or Nikon D500..., that one will have 20-28MP, a nice buffer for long n fast bursts and 4K video at 30fps on board... And i guess 2 years after that one is out, we will see the first FF from Pentax that really fits
and can compete with what APS-C Cameras already offer...

RIP Samsung NX1 ... its a shame you are not PENTAX-Mount, DSLR/SLT and FF...

watch out capital letters following.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
07-26-2016, 05:46 PM - 1 Like   #109
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,166
:Troll:

07-26-2016, 06:04 PM - 1 Like   #110
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,288
Well I actually read all that. But then I'm standing in the grocery waiting for my wife and nothing better to do.
07-26-2016, 06:09 PM - 4 Likes   #111
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,483
It is my opinion that Pentax will focus their efforts the next two years on lenses for both FF and consumer APSc, as well as a flagship APSc body and - maybe - another between K-70 and flagship. I suspect a second FF is entirely dependent on the longer term sales of K-1 and the ongoing penetration of underserved global markets with $800 - $1,200 APSC bodies. That price range is unlikely to support another Pentax FF camera without violating their core brand values: small, durable, sealed, full OVF, innovative around the edges and more and different features at each price point than CaNikon.

We already have CaNikon. Pentax is an alternative. We don't need Pentax to match every camera body already in the market.

Last edited by monochrome; 07-27-2016 at 04:18 AM.
07-27-2016, 01:08 AM   #112
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tromsų, Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 922
K-1 offers a ton of features that D800E don't. All it share is the sensor. A couple of grams of the ~1000 gram camera.

Samsung stopped making NX1 cameras, but they potentially may still be making sensors for others. The sensor is the only standout component in NX1 that I would want to see in a future Pentax camera.
07-27-2016, 02:40 AM - 1 Like   #113
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,955
QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I dont agree. I have a collection of FF lenses and I paid quite little for it. You don't need the newest lenses to use a K-1.


36 Mp APS-C? Why? 24 is plenty, maybe even too much for many of us. Pixel count basically just follows what Sony is producing.


So more people buy Pentax.. Or do you think their long term goal for the FF investment is to keep the market share stably low?


K-1 holds some expensive components and high end features. It makes sense to make a cost cut version which marks a distance to the high end model. Pentax needs to identify bottlenecks and increase production capacity before they can launch this cost cut model.


Many FF lenses will come in 2017. Pentax have had several APS-C cameras available simultaneously the last years. They can have more then one FF camera too.


Yes, but that doesn't mean they should stay with only one FF camera.
The question is what camera will fill the price slot beneath the K-1. My guess is eventually it will be the K-1 followed by APS-C and there will be another camera released that is above the K-1. So you would have K3 III (or whatever) at 1000 dollars, K-1 at 1400 and K-2 (or whatever name) at 2000. As long as the K-1 is selling well, Pentax will keep it at its current price, but eventually it will drop somewhat.

It isn't as though sticking a 24 megapixel sensor in a full frame camera guarantees better performance. The D610 does 6 fps, the D750 has 6.5 fps, which isn't exactly a speed monster and the 6D only does 4.5 fps The D610 and D750 only have buffers that hold 14 and 15 RAW files respectively. They are a little cheaper than the K-1 currently, but they are also old cameras that are close to the end of their life cycle. My expectation is that when Canon and Nikon release their replacements, the replacements will be in the exact same price range the K-1 is now.

07-27-2016, 05:02 AM   #114
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,415
I have a Sony A7II with a 24MP sensor and, yes, 24MP is plenty, but I doubt we ever see a 24MP FF K-mount. There are too many users who have invested in ASP-C glass and for them crop mode is very important as they transition to FF glass. The 24MP FF sensor really needs an AA filter and the crop mode would be too limited given the current market. The 36MP doesn't need an AA filter and provides a decent crop mode. The 36MP outperforms the 24MP is just about every way.
07-27-2016, 07:55 AM   #115
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,556
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The question is what camera will fill the price slot beneath the K-1. My guess is eventually it will be the K-1 followed by APS-C and there will be another camera released that is above the K-1. So you would have K3 III (or whatever) at 1000 dollars, K-1 at 1400 and K-2 (or whatever name) at 2000.
We have enough camera models I think. The marketshare of Pentax is small in dslr. Even if they double it they don't need an extra model. Currently there is no bottom entry level dslr in production, but Pentax doesn't have shelf place in stores to move them in enough quantity's.

The current line (and what would make logic to replace it)
- K-70 (just new, so 2018)
- K-3ii (at it's end, so 2017)
- K-1 (just new, so 2019)
- 645z (midlife, so 2018)

Some other models on sale now, like K-S1, K-S2 and K-50 that are slowly disappearing. For 645 there could be a 100MP model in the line. If Pentax would like a cheaper body, then maybe a mirrorless body could be placed under K-70 with K-mount. An extra full frame would need a bigger marketshare.
07-28-2016, 05:09 AM   #116
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tromsų, Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 922
Some twin models can be considered the same in terms of development and production costs. Like K-50 and K-500. But they still count as two separate models for potential buyers and logistics. I believe that is a very cheap way of having "1,5" camera models. I hope the K-70 get a little twin brother. Basically the same camera, but with a couple of cost cutting differences.

For K-1 I think there will be a slightly different strategy. From 2018 i think stocks of K-1 will be sold along with a newer cost cut variant "K-1 lite" until K-1 stocks are sold out. I also expect a new "K-1 super" to be introduced around the same time as "K-1 lite". The lite and super variants will probably be produced simultaneously. I'm sure Pentax are looking into how to increase production capacity to enable this. Things that bottleneck K-1 production may be removed from the "lite" variant or they will increase those capacities.
07-28-2016, 05:51 AM   #117
Pentaxian
Barry Pearson's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Stockport
Posts: 870
QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
For K-1 I think there will be a slightly different strategy. From 2018 i think stocks of K-1 will be sold along with a newer cost cut variant "K-1 lite" until K-1 stocks are sold out. I also expect a new "K-1 super" to be introduced around the same time as "K-1 lite". The lite and super variants will probably be produced simultaneously.
I think a key statement there is '... a new "K-1 super" to be introduced around the same time as "K-1 lite"'. I think Ricoh will be wary of introducing a "K-1 lite" before they have introduced a "K-1 super".

I remember when Pentax didn't introduce a "*istD super" for years, but introduced (in effect) "istD lite" models instead. It made some of us wonder if they had lost the will to develop more advanced models. I considered jumping ship until the K10D re-positioned Pentax.

I believe Ricoh can live without a "K-1 lite" for longer than they can live without a "K-1 super". Perhaps for ever.

(Ricoh are keen to sell more lenses. They presumably want to supply cameras to the sort of people who buy more lenses).

Last edited by Barry Pearson; 07-28-2016 at 06:03 AM.
07-28-2016, 06:13 AM   #118
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,830
Current price of DFA lenses weight more than FF camera body. Cheaper lenses should unlock some of the FF sales for customers with limited budgets. Most objections for the Pentax FF are currently: 1) price of lenses 2) size/weight of lenses. I haven't seen much complains about the size of the K1 itself, which is one of the smallest FF dslr to date.
07-28-2016, 07:26 AM   #119
Pentaxian
Barry Pearson's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Stockport
Posts: 870
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Current price of DFA lenses weight more than FF camera body. Cheaper lenses should unlock some of the FF sales for customers with limited budgets. Most objections for the Pentax FF are currently: 1) price of lenses 2) size/weight of lenses. I haven't seen much complains about the size of the K1 itself, which is one of the smallest FF dslr to date.
Yes. The D FA 28-105mm lens shows the way. I take it everywhere the K-1 goes.

I think a smallish, lightish, "affordable" zoom below that range, (say 18-36mm) plus a smallish, lightish, "affordable" zoom above that range, (say 75-250mm) would complement the 28-105mm and make not only an entry level FF system but also a fairly comprehensive FF travel system.

(I just guessed those focal lengths to give a feel for what I was saying! I don't know if they make sense competitively or in cost/benefit terms. But I do think that being too generous with the zoom ranges would impact price or image quality or both).
07-28-2016, 07:32 AM   #120
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 647
It would be nice to see the Samsung 28mp BSI-CMOS sensor in the next GR.

As for the K-1 the only area Pentax dropped the ball on was not implementing UHS-II bus interface especially since they went with the 36mp sensor.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24mp full frame, 24x36mm, body, camera, d610, dslr, expenses, features, ff, files, frame, full-frame, image, k-1, k1, level, pentaprism, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, pixel, price, sensor, system, time, viewfinder, volume
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Irix 15mm f/2,4 for full frame K-mount Simen1 Pentax News and Rumors 457 03-04-2017 07:55 AM
Sony Alpha a7 Mirrorless Digital Camera, Full Frame 24MP $398 Adorama interested_observer Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 9 04-24-2016 11:14 PM
For Sale - Sold: Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 Full Frame K Mount EricBrown Sold Items 6 03-23-2016 06:58 AM
Pentax Full Frame to Support All K-mount Lenses PF Staff Homepage & Official Pentax News 8 12-12-2015 04:21 AM
Leica announces 'M' 24MP live view full-frame CMOS rangefinder with movies jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 22 09-30-2012 01:17 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:30 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top