24mp full frame K mount camera, possible?

mee · 05-31-2016, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by grahame

I was very exited when I read the first part of it sentence...:-(

I don't think of you that way. Mistakes happen.

zmohie · 05-31-2016, 07:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by grahame

It looks like K1 sells pretty well, in Japan and in elsewhere. The question is, is pentax going to stick with K1 since it sells well, or the the good selling would give them $$ to develop newer body?

BTW, I have big problem with this statement from pentax: does it mean Pentax is going to stop developing new model if K1 does not sell well enough? How well to keep them moving forward? I remember them said on K1s box: "we promise.... always be with you".

the new ff lenses tells the truth: pentax is going forward on dslr ff. we have 5 new ff lenses. this is a prove that ff will be their main horse.

**jatrax** · 05-31-2016, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Simen1

No doubut K-1 was a major piece of engineering, but they probably wont spent remotely close to that many engineering hours on follow up models. Think more like K-7 -> K-5 -> K-5 II. I think follow up models will have large similarities to K-1 like similar camera housing and electronics with a few distinct changes compared to K-1:

I've no doubt there will be follow up models, assuming K-1 sales meet expectations. But like your example K-7>K-5>K-5II I think they will be incremental improvements on the same concept, not additional models with a different concept. K-1 is a high MP field camera, followups will likely follow that theme. So I don't see a place for a low MP 'cheaper' or 'sports' model in the lineup. Not for some time at least. They need the lens catalog to support those and they don't have that yet. Maybe by 2020 or so if things continue to go well.

gorme · 05-31-2016, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by dafbp

Nobody needs "8 fps 8 frames in the garbage" because the AF

Some people would probably benefit from 8fps even without AF. Just an example, I did a bit of horse races pictures and my typical way of doing it was to manual focus on the obstacle or a bit in front and wait for the horses to jump it and when the horses jumped taking a burst. With the K3 at 8fps I was sure to get some correct pictures.

That beeing said, I agree that they need to improve the AF

slip · 06-06-2016, 06:42 PM - **1 Like**

some manufacturers are moving to lower pixel count to improve low light performance. doesn't Nikon claim the magic number is 20 MP?

Thanks

Randy

**jpzk** · 06-06-2016, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by willeisner

but their biggest complaint is the low FPS.

Is this "FPS" "frame per second" ?
If yes, then how fast do you really NEED the "FPS" for birding .... even for BIF??
Curious.

Simen1 · 06-07-2016, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by slip

some manufacturers are moving to lower pixel count to improve low light performance. doesn't Nikon claim the magic number is 20 MP?

Who are moving to lower pixel count?
What are the magic solution to a compromise?

If it was possible I would want to adjust the pixel count just like I adjust ISO or aperture so I can have few pixels when I shoot high ISO in low light, and high pixel count when I shoot in low contrast daylight. Since that isn't possible yet a second solution would be to have several cameras. Since I don't have the money or wish to lug around several cameras, I have to go for a compromise.

The truth is that the magic number magically follows the current top model.

**monochrome** · 06-07-2016, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

Actually I'm thinking yes. Only one FF model at a time. I don't see the market as large enough to support more. And the feature / price of the K-1 seems more to be spot in the middle, not leaving much room for other models. But it will be fun to see what happens.

What happens after all the doggedly loyal Pentaxians have a K-1? How many people switch to Pentax?

The answer to the second question answers the others.

**jatrax** · 06-07-2016, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

What happens after all the doggedly loyal Pentaxians have a K-1? How many people switch to Pentax?

I don't think all the Pentaxians have a k-1 yet, though it appears we are getting closer. How many converts will we get? No idea, but a lot I think, relative to the current user base.

But I still don't think we will see a two FF line up for a long time. For a number of reasons.

sculptor666 · 06-07-2016, 10:27 AM

i don't know how many people will switch... but there are always people moving up to dslr's. more and more, pentax is a great option... if they're made aware of it!

Barry Pearson · 06-07-2016, 02:46 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by JimmyDranox

First, the hard work is already done. Second, a lower resolution FF camera will be on the trend with all others major manufacturers, and a big help for some customers to decide for a step to FF. Will also be a sign of Pentax determination to be in the first line, with Canon, Nikon, and Sony.

I think that if there is to be a more "affordable" Pentax FF camera, there will have to be more "affordable" FF lenses, especially zooms.

Ricoh can't rely on legacy lenses, nor on 3rd-party lenses. They need their own lenses in their current catalogue at the time of the camera.

There is the lovely 28-105mm lens, but I think they would at least need a wider zoom and a longer zoom than that. (I know there are patents which may be suitable).

JimmyDranox · 06-07-2016, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

I think that if there is to be a more "affordable" Pentax FF camera, there will have to be more "affordable" FF lenses, especially zooms.

Ricoh can't rely on legacy lenses, nor on 3rd-party lenses. They need their own lenses in their current catalogue at the time of the camera.

There is the lovely 28-105mm lens, but I think they would at least need a wider zoom and a longer zoom than that. (I know there are patents which may be suitable).

I agree with your points. Yes, Pentax needs new afordable lenses, And is a long debate between me and some others forum membewrs about the prices of the new Pentax lenses, more when we think that some of this lenses are renamed Tamron lenses.

But I am confident that Ricoh will take the steps to develop an affordable, and also an performant FF line. And the first step, in my view, is a low, (24), Mpixel, fast burst, and video capable camera.

Barry Pearson · 06-08-2016, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by JimmyDranox

I agree with your points. Yes, Pentax needs new afordable lenses, And is a long debate between me and some others forum membewrs about the prices of the new Pentax lenses, more when we think that some of this lenses are renamed Tamron lenses.

But I am confident that Ricoh will take the steps to develop an affordable, and also an performant FF line. And the first step, in my view, is a low, (24), Mpixel, fast burst, and video capable camera.

I would buy a Pentax camera, either FF or APS-C, with at least the AF capability of the K-1 (SAFOX 12, etc), at least 20 MP, and at least a robust 10 fps.

(I would use it with the 70-200mm and 150-450mm lenses I already have).

Gyroscope · 06-17-2016, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

As I recall Ricoh said in one of the interviews further FF development would depend on the reception (sales) of the K-1.

Resolution a 24 mpx sensor in crop mode would be what - 10.7 mpx? About the same as the K10D?

My first reaction to that was so what? These types of camera's from Canon and Nikon don't have a crop mode but I guess they don't have to rely on a lot of crop sensor lenses either so it is valid point. I think the full frame lens lineup would have to be fleshed out (especially fast telephoto) before a 24mp sensor would be viable.

Gyroscope · 06-18-2016, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

What happens after all the doggedly loyal Pentaxians have a K-1? How many people switch to Pentax?

The answer to the second question answers the others.

I think there will be a few converts. As a canon user of 20 years I am now going to be picking up my K1 and 24-70 next week

Whether I go completely pentax depends on how I take to it and what lenses Pentax brings out. My conversion would not be typical though as I am coming from my first Pentax camera of the 645Z which has no competition anywhere else.

06-07-2016, 04:48 AM	#38
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by jatrax Actually I'm thinking yes. Only one FF model at a time. I don't see the market as large enough to support more. And the feature / price of the K-1 seems more to be spot in the middle, not leaving much room for other models. But it will be fun to see what happens. What happens after all the doggedly loyal Pentaxians have a K-1? How many people switch to Pentax? The answer to the second question answers the others. Last edited by monochrome; 06-07-2016 at 05:06 AM.

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05-31-2016, 06:53 AM	#31
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by grahame I was very exited when I read the first part of it sentence...:-( I don't think of you that way. Mistakes happen.

05-31-2016, 07:12 AM - 1 Like	#32
zmohie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: egypt Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 435	Originally posted by grahame It looks like K1 sells pretty well, in Japan and in elsewhere. The question is, is pentax going to stick with K1 since it sells well, or the the good selling would give them $$ to develop newer body? BTW, I have big problem with this statement from pentax: does it mean Pentax is going to stop developing new model if K1 does not sell well enough? How well to keep them moving forward? I remember them said on K1s box: "we promise.... always be with you". the new ff lenses tells the truth: pentax is going forward on dslr ff. we have 5 new ff lenses. this is a prove that ff will be their main horse.

05-31-2016, 07:20 AM	#33
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Simen1 No doubut K-1 was a major piece of engineering, but they probably wont spent remotely close to that many engineering hours on follow up models. Think more like K-7 -> K-5 -> K-5 II. I think follow up models will have large similarities to K-1 like similar camera housing and electronics with a few distinct changes compared to K-1: I've no doubt there will be follow up models, assuming K-1 sales meet expectations. But like your example K-7>K-5>K-5II I think they will be incremental improvements on the same concept, not additional models with a different concept. K-1 is a high MP field camera, followups will likely follow that theme. So I don't see a place for a low MP 'cheaper' or 'sports' model in the lineup. Not for some time at least. They need the lens catalog to support those and they don't have that yet. Maybe by 2020 or so if things continue to go well.

05-31-2016, 07:30 AM	#34
gorme Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Galway - Ireland Posts: 213	Originally posted by dafbp Nobody needs "8 fps 8 frames in the garbage" because the AF Some people would probably benefit from 8fps even without AF. Just an example, I did a bit of horse races pictures and my typical way of doing it was to manual focus on the obstacle or a bit in front and wait for the horses to jump it and when the horses jumped taking a burst. With the K3 at 8fps I was sure to get some correct pictures. That beeing said, I agree that they need to improve the AF

06-06-2016, 06:42 PM - 1 Like	#35
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	some manufacturers are moving to lower pixel count to improve low light performance. doesn't Nikon claim the magic number is 20 MP? Thanks Randy

06-06-2016, 06:51 PM	#36
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by willeisner but their biggest complaint is the low FPS. Is this "FPS" "frame per second" ? If yes, then how fast do you really NEED the "FPS" for birding .... even for BIF?? Curious.

06-07-2016, 12:52 AM	#37
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Originally posted by slip some manufacturers are moving to lower pixel count to improve low light performance. doesn't Nikon claim the magic number is 20 MP? Who are moving to lower pixel count? What are the magic solution to a compromise? If it was possible I would want to adjust the pixel count just like I adjust ISO or aperture so I can have few pixels when I shoot high ISO in low light, and high pixel count when I shoot in low contrast daylight. Since that isn't possible yet a second solution would be to have several cameras. Since I don't have the money or wish to lug around several cameras, I have to go for a compromise. The truth is that the magic number magically follows the current top model.

06-07-2016, 07:26 AM	#39
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by monochrome What happens after all the doggedly loyal Pentaxians have a K-1? How many people switch to Pentax? I don't think all the Pentaxians have a k-1 yet, though it appears we are getting closer. How many converts will we get? No idea, but a lot I think, relative to the current user base. But I still don't think we will see a two FF line up for a long time. For a number of reasons.

06-07-2016, 10:27 AM	#40
sculptor666 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 675	i don't know how many people will switch... but there are always people moving up to dslr's. more and more, pentax is a great option... if they're made aware of it!

06-07-2016, 02:46 PM - 1 Like	#41
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by JimmyDranox First, the hard work is already done. Second, a lower resolution FF camera will be on the trend with all others major manufacturers, and a big help for some customers to decide for a step to FF. Will also be a sign of Pentax determination to be in the first line, with Canon, Nikon, and Sony. I think that if there is to be a more "affordable" Pentax FF camera, there will have to be more "affordable" FF lenses, especially zooms. Ricoh can't rely on legacy lenses, nor on 3rd-party lenses. They need their own lenses in their current catalogue at the time of the camera. There is the lovely 28-105mm lens, but I think they would at least need a wider zoom and a longer zoom than that. (I know there are patents which may be suitable).

06-07-2016, 03:27 PM	#42
JimmyDranox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ploiesti, Romania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,632	Originally posted by Barry Pearson I think that if there is to be a more "affordable" Pentax FF camera, there will have to be more "affordable" FF lenses, especially zooms. Ricoh can't rely on legacy lenses, nor on 3rd-party lenses. They need their own lenses in their current catalogue at the time of the camera. There is the lovely 28-105mm lens, but I think they would at least need a wider zoom and a longer zoom than that. (I know there are patents which may be suitable). I agree with your points. Yes, Pentax needs new afordable lenses, And is a long debate between me and some others forum membewrs about the prices of the new Pentax lenses, more when we think that some of this lenses are renamed Tamron lenses. But I am confident that Ricoh will take the steps to develop an affordable, and also an performant FF line. And the first step, in my view, is a low, (24), Mpixel, fast burst, and video capable camera.

06-08-2016, 01:08 AM	#43
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by JimmyDranox I agree with your points. Yes, Pentax needs new afordable lenses, And is a long debate between me and some others forum membewrs about the prices of the new Pentax lenses, more when we think that some of this lenses are renamed Tamron lenses. But I am confident that Ricoh will take the steps to develop an affordable, and also an performant FF line. And the first step, in my view, is a low, (24), Mpixel, fast burst, and video capable camera. I would buy a Pentax camera, either FF or APS-C, with at least the AF capability of the K-1 (SAFOX 12, etc), at least 20 MP, and at least a robust 10 fps. (I would use it with the 70-200mm and 150-450mm lenses I already have).

06-17-2016, 10:54 PM	#44
Gyroscope Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 166	Originally posted by Not a Number As I recall Ricoh said in one of the interviews further FF development would depend on the reception (sales) of the K-1. Resolution a 24 mpx sensor in crop mode would be what - 10.7 mpx? About the same as the K10D? My first reaction to that was so what? These types of camera's from Canon and Nikon don't have a crop mode but I guess they don't have to rely on a lot of crop sensor lenses either so it is valid point. I think the full frame lens lineup would have to be fleshed out (especially fast telephoto) before a 24mp sensor would be viable.

06-18-2016, 01:00 AM	#45
Gyroscope Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 166	Originally posted by monochrome What happens after all the doggedly loyal Pentaxians have a K-1? How many people switch to Pentax? The answer to the second question answers the others. I think there will be a few converts. As a canon user of 20 years I am now going to be picking up my K1 and 24-70 next week Whether I go completely pentax depends on how I take to it and what lenses Pentax brings out. My conversion would not be typical though as I am coming from my first Pentax camera of the 645Z which has no competition anywhere else.