[ivorianebony]

no, there are not enough camera models, especially not in full frame version.
Because the K-1 is a sluggish Megapixel-Beast, and you only make a small amount of people happy with such a thing.

Even if some self-voters demand to know better and say, "36 MP is just right for everybody. Shut up i know it better." many of us will know it better when we just compare high ISO results of 36MP sensor cameras with those of 24, 20 or 12 MP FF-Cameras by ourselves.

As many people on the internet mentioned before, 24MP is more than enough(actually 20MP would be enough) especially with Pixel-Shift(or its maybe to come successor or add up function)
and this is indeed the reason why there is a gap. cheaper or priced the same?? -> i throw in my 2 cents and say it will not matter, the demand is there. Defenitely.


yep... they missed UHS-II and USB3.0.... what (if not also XQD and 4K -- at least 4K is available on the WG-M platform now) is a must in the next DSLR.
But looking at the K-1 only having USB2.0 and remembering a low-res picture of a PENTAX FF-prototype-body i saw on the internet actually before the K-3 came out and it looked strikingly just like the K-1 now does...,
I go so far and say, they pulled a rabbit out of a hat, because the pressure of the Pentax-Community was already too high and now the next FF-DSLR(with USB3.0 and at least UHS-II if not also an XQD slot) is already waiting for packing in some container or warehouse.

And yes. I totally agree, we have a missing lenses problem.... Where is F:4.0 WR glass...?? Where is that 28-300 from Tamron rebranded as a PENTAX?

I am pretty sure, that even people who do not feel 100% OK with PENTAXs first step into the digital full frame world, would immediately buy a K-1 if the glass wasnt that expensive...
The 15-30 with F-mount costs 600-700 LESS than the K-mount version...
The 24-70 2.8 with F-mount only costs around 800 ...

Those overpriced rebranded tamrons are a real "shot in the dark"... they not only keep people away from the pentax Full-Frame... no, it also keeps people sticking with dead old glass.

And overpriced is overpriced... For instance:
If you are honest to yourself, you would find an "in-lens-stabilzer" very useful at focal lengths over 135mm.... Because not even 5-axis SR can keep up with an in-lens solution at focal lengths from 135 up to ∞(infinity). Just try the Sigma 50-500 at the long end with OS turned on... you will be amazed.

And Nikon glass priced the same as the new 70-200 2.8 from Pentax, at least has VR(Vibration Reduction) for what it costs you... And as an L is mostly a real L, a G is mostly a real G and therefore such lenses are not only high value, they most of the times are also what we call "weather resistant" in Pentax-World, but are just priced mostly the same(Nikon)

Dont get me wrong. I really appreciate the PENTAX SR... but most other professionals i had a talk with, said that they would really like to have both... "in-body SR" for good, chunky manual glass and an "in-lens stabilizer" solution for/in high value tele and super-tele lenses...

Not only that it is better at normal stabilization with long focal lengths.. No!
It is also very helpful, when you want to "pan" something(f.i. fast driving cars etc.) and you can switch the OS from normal stabilization to panning stabilization....

Equivalent Tamron Glass with this feature and F:2.8 costs about 1.200 or less...

There is indeed "need for action" on RICOH/PENTAXs side. Now.


But nonetheless.
I am totally convinced, that a 24MP K-Mount DSLR with fast bus and framerates would sell like hot cake right now already...

Even if it is missing those totally valuable screen and the "idunnoforwhat-wait-i-just-use-the-buttons" wheels on top.
And therefore would have a normal Top-LCD and a simple tiltnswivel display ...

ESPECIALLY ... if it would hit the market together with some nice and sharp "DFA XX-XXX F:4.0througout DC WR" zoom-glass...

[grahame]

well said!
They might have left UHS-II and USB3.0 on purpose for the next model but i don't think it could make enough difference for a new model, even just for "II"
And i really hope pentax can listen and release a lower resolution FF camera, because I am not that satisfied with K1's low light high ISO performance. I know many will through stones to me, but at low light, ISO 1600 is the limit to have noise free image from K-1. 3200? I will have to deal with it in PP. pushing ISO to 6400 at good light is a different story and is not very helpful, only misleading.

I am only worrying about AA filter that will have to be added back for 24MP sensor. I don't have problem with that, but many hat to see it in the camera and I wonder if Sony will make one for pentax.

[Kunzite]

Even if some self-voters demand to know better and say, "36 MP is just right for everybody. Shut up i know it better." many of us will know it better when we just compare high ISO results of 36MP sensor cameras with those of 24, 20 or 12 MP FF-Cameras by ourselves.

As many people on the internet mentioned before, 24MP is more than enough(actually 20MP would be enough) especially with Pixel-Shift(or its maybe to come successor or add up function)
and this is indeed the reason why there is a gap. cheaper or priced the same?? -> i throw in my 2 cents and say it will not matter, the demand is there. Defenitely.

In other words, the people who say "24MP is more than enough for everybody. Shut up i know better." are right? Do I understand correctly?

Let me put it this way: you don't know "the demand is there" for another 24MP FF DSLR. Right now, it would compete with the K-1 - and guess what, those of us who bought the K-1 won't get another camera, so soon.
But it doesn't matter, because no 24MP FF Pentax is planned right now. There are other things to be done before expanding the FF camera range.

[Simen1]

Pentax have recently prioritized high end f/2,8 zooms for FF. Nest year will be high end primes for FF. These lenses are what Pentax expect us to combine with the high end K-1 model.

The f/4 zooms and cheaper variable aperture zooms and cheaper primes are probably scheduled for 2018 at earliest. And this is the lenses that matches up with a cheaper FF model.

[Kunzite]

That cheaper FF model... could it be the K-1, 2 years from now?

[mee]

K-1 II would be confusing..

"It is a 1.. or a 2?" "..Who is on first." "That's what I want to know!"

[surfar]

What's on first,whose on 2nd!

[Barry Pearson]

That cheaper FF model... could it be the K-1, 2 years from now?

Good question! Let's think about this from Ricoh's point of view.

Until Ricoh has launched a set of cheaper and/or more varied, modern, FF lenses, there appears to be no motivation for Ricoh to launch a cheaper FF camera. The people who would buy such a camera instead of the K-1 are probably not the people who would spend much money buying new Pentax lenses. They are more likely to be people with legacy lenses, or who will buy 2nd-hand lenses or lenses from 3rd parties. There appears to be little or no margin for Ricoh in an early cheaper FF camera.

Achieving a better Pentax FF lens line-up appears to be the objective for the next (say) two years. At which time Ricoh can respond to the question: "now what should our FF camera range look like?"

The K-1 will have experienced price-erosion and presumably margin-erosion by two years time. It will be time for either a "mid-like kicker" such as a K-1II, or a significantly improved alternative to the K-1. (The K-5II(s) came about 2 years after the K-5. The K-3II came a bit less than 2 years after the K-3).

Either way, the option will be available for the K-1 to continue in production as the entry-level Pentax FF camera at a price less than it is now. (And what an entry-level FF camera!) Depending on the amount of improvement of the new Pentax FF camera, the price difference between the 2 models may be small or large.

That appears to make sense for Ricoh. It probably doesn't make sense for photographers who don't want to spend much money buying new Pentax cameras and lenses but "simply" want a cheap Pentax FF camera for their own reasons.

[surfar]

That appears to make sense for Ricoh

Yes, why go down the scale....In 2 years a K1 successor with the same tilt out screen, 42+ mp,4k video, and by then about 12-15 DFA lenses to choose from.Obviously priced another 500/700 above the K1(yes it becomes the entry level FF, but that's what it is now!)

[Rondec]

no, there are not enough camera models, especially not in full frame version.
Because the K-1 is a sluggish Megapixel-Beast, and you only make a small amount of people happy with such a thing.

Even if some self-voters demand to know better and say, "36 MP is just right for everybody. Shut up i know it better." many of us will know it better when we just compare high ISO results of 36MP sensor cameras with those of 24, 20 or 12 MP FF-Cameras by ourselves.

As many people on the internet mentioned before, 24MP is more than enough(actually 20MP would be enough) especially with Pixel-Shift(or its maybe to come successor or add up function)
and this is indeed the reason why there is a gap. cheaper or priced the same?? -> i throw in my 2 cents and say it will not matter, the demand is there. Defenitely.


yep... they missed UHS-II and USB3.0.... what (if not also XQD and 4K -- at least 4K is available on the WG-M platform now) is a must in the next DSLR.
But looking at the K-1 only having USB2.0 and remembering a low-res picture of a PENTAX FF-prototype-body i saw on the internet actually before the K-3 came out and it looked strikingly just like the K-1 now does...,
I go so far and say, they pulled a rabbit out of a hat, because the pressure of the Pentax-Community was already too high and now the next FF-DSLR(with USB3.0 and at least UHS-II if not also an XQD slot) is already waiting for packing in some container or warehouse.

And yes. I totally agree, we have a missing lenses problem.... Where is F:4.0 WR glass...?? Where is that 28-300 from Tamron rebranded as a PENTAX?

I am pretty sure, that even people who do not feel 100% OK with PENTAXs first step into the digital full frame world, would immediately buy a K-1 if the glass wasnt that expensive...
The 15-30 with F-mount costs 600-700 LESS than the K-mount version...
The 24-70 2.8 with F-mount only costs around 800 ...

Those overpriced rebranded tamrons are a real "shot in the dark"... they not only keep people away from the pentax Full-Frame... no, it also keeps people sticking with dead old glass.

And overpriced is overpriced... For instance:
If you are honest to yourself, you would find an "in-lens-stabilzer" very useful at focal lengths over 135mm.... Because not even 5-axis SR can keep up with an in-lens solution at focal lengths from 135 up to ∞(infinity). Just try the Sigma 50-500 at the long end with OS turned on... you will be amazed.

And Nikon glass priced the same as the new 70-200 2.8 from Pentax, at least has VR(Vibration Reduction) for what it costs you... And as an L is mostly a real L, a G is mostly a real G and therefore such lenses are not only high value, they most of the times are also what we call "weather resistant" in Pentax-World, but are just priced mostly the same(Nikon)

Dont get me wrong. I really appreciate the PENTAX SR... but most other professionals i had a talk with, said that they would really like to have both... "in-body SR" for good, chunky manual glass and an "in-lens stabilizer" solution for/in high value tele and super-tele lenses...

Not only that it is better at normal stabilization with long focal lengths.. No!
It is also very helpful, when you want to "pan" something(f.i. fast driving cars etc.) and you can switch the OS from normal stabilization to panning stabilization....

Equivalent Tamron Glass with this feature and F:2.8 costs about 1.200 or less...

There is indeed "need for action" on RICOH/PENTAXs side. Now.


But nonetheless.
I am totally convinced, that a 24MP K-Mount DSLR with fast bus and framerates would sell like hot cake right now already...

Even if it is missing those totally valuable screen and the "idunnoforwhat-wait-i-just-use-the-buttons" wheels on top.
And therefore would have a normal Top-LCD and a simple tiltnswivel display ...

ESPECIALLY ... if it would hit the market together with some nice and sharp "DFA XX-XXX F:4.0througout DC WR" zoom-glass...

I think the whole point is that Pentax has to start somewhere. They launched an 1800 dollar full frame camera, which to me was a nice price. Clearly they don't have the structure in place to design and produce a bunch of new lenses for a new mount. The 70-200, which they did design, is a very nice lens, but it was supposed to be launched a year before it actually came out.

Video has never been Pentax's thing. Maybe that will change some day, but it doesn't feel like now. USB 2 versus 3 just says that development started quite awhile ago and they didn't feel like they could change that and didn't feel like it was a big deal (it isn't -- I use a card reader to grab my images and that is faster than using a USB cord).

Having launched a full frame camera, the next year or so is going to be devoted to trying to fill out their lens line up. A lot of primes and maybe an f4 zoom or two will come out.

As to this idea that 24 megapixel camera is going to be so much faster than a K-1, I doubt it. The D750 is priced higher than the K-1 and has 6.5 fps (not a speed demon) a top shutter speed of 1/4000 second and a buffer capacity of 15 RAW files. That is a little faster than the K-1 for sure, but it isn't huge. The D750 clearly isn't the answer to most sports photographer's needs, which is why Nikon has a D5 and D500.

However, this thread was created to talk about how Pentax could undercut the K-1 by releasing a cheaper 24 megapixel full frame camera and clearly, even if Pentax just cloned the D750, with all its strengths and weaknesses, it would come in at a price above the K-1.

I agree with Kunzite. In a year or two, the K-1 will move to a second tier status and sell for 1500 or so and there will be a new full frame with faster frame rates and best USB support. I suppose it will have some sort of 4K video, but I doubt it will be a top end codec, but I suppose it will be adequate.

In the end, I think Pentax released a very nice camera. Those who aren't pleased with it probably should move on at this point -- not because they aren't wanted, but because Pentax isn't a big enough company to release three different full frame cameras to satisfy all the different folks here who want something different (sports camera, cheap camera, video camera).

[Kunzite]

Technically speaking, what they could've done is a 24MP version of the K-1 - same body, same AF, same processor, same everything except the sensor. This could raise its frame rate to about 6.5fps (since the mechanics are definitely capable of that, and assuming the sensor itself can), but it still wouldn't be anywhere near a "sports camera". It would not compare favorably with the D750 on speed.

We have to realize how difficult it was to make the K-1 as it is; in order to get the low price yet still develop the required technologies (for a first FF DSLR), a series of compromises had to be made. The sensor, though excellent for stills, is quite old; as many components as possible were reused (e.g. the AF sensor). It wasn't a "no effort spared" camera, it wasn't an NX1 or K-M 7D which would bury a company because they're too ambitious. It is an affordable camera designed to be sold in 7,000 units per month (or about 1% of the DSLR market).

Remove said compromises - for example, use a custom made 4K-capable 24MP sensor - and the price will go up, not down. IMHO, none of the people who are asking for more features and a lower price would pay for it.

[harryzero]

I was told before from a rep at my local store that Ricoh will come with d750 like after 6 or 13 monthes from k1 release date. but when i asked hime a week ago he said it will depends on the demends on k1.
not sure if his info is updated but my mind tells me that 24 mp sensor is a realeastic step.
BTW sorry for your k1.

I have K7 and have been waiting for FF, If only Ricoh had kept it simple a digital equivalent of the classic K2. Or even a K1000, Gimmicks and twisty viewing screens killed the K1 for me. I would have been happy to pay £1000 for no frills with weather seals. Since then I have 2 compacts with Leica lenses that give every bit of quality that my DSLR kit gives me. The longer I wait the more chance of me losing interest altogether.

[Kunzite]

Do you mean, you would be happy to pay £1000 over the current price for no frills?

[harryzero]

Do you mean, you would be happy to pay £1000 over the current price for no frills?

Not OVER the current price. Just £1000 for a FF basic spec body with weather seals. Maybe with. FGZ compatible hot shoe as I have flash gun.

[Barry Pearson]

Gimmicks and twisty viewing screens killed the K1 for me.

Why?

You don't have to use them!