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07-19-2016, 10:15 AM   #46
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Samuel, would you mind sharing original DNGs. Would be curious to compare using different PP engine really.

07-19-2016, 10:30 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by vladfrenkel Quote
Samuel, would you mind sharing original DNGs. Would be curious to compare using different PP engine really.
I'm going to do another test tomorrow under better lighting conditions and will share the raw files. What's the best way to do that?
07-19-2016, 10:34 AM   #48
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Dropbox, Onedrive? I usually post on onedrive and share the folder...
07-19-2016, 10:44 AM   #49
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I use Dropbox when I want to do things like that.

07-19-2016, 12:02 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by SamuelDixon Quote
...

[/COLOR]Another random question re my switching, has anyone had experience with both the Sigma 85mm 1.4 and the Pentax 77mm 1.8?

That 85mm was a go to for me on the 5D, I ordered the 77mm that I know people love, just hoping it holds it's own.
i don't know anything about the Sigma 85, but feel very good that you will be pleased with the FA77, it is my favorite Pentax lens, hands down, and a definite fan favorite around here. Some visible CA is well noted, but easily corrected and the luscious rendering is worth the price!
07-19-2016, 03:04 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
i don't know anything about the Sigma 85, but feel very good that you will be pleased with the FA77, it is my favorite Pentax lens, hands down, and a definite fan favorite around here. Some visible CA is well noted, but easily corrected and the luscious rendering is worth the price!
Do you know if Lightroom has a lens profile for the 77mm?
07-19-2016, 04:14 PM   #52
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Capture one definitely does...
07-19-2016, 04:55 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by SamuelDixon Quote
Do you know if Lightroom has a lens profile for the 77mm?
It does.

07-19-2016, 06:35 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by RollsUp Quote
It does.
already answered, but YES, lol
07-19-2016, 08:42 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
already answered, but YES, lol
lol Really? Where?
07-19-2016, 10:48 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by RollsUp Quote
lol Really? Where?
FA 77 has had a profile in Lightroom since v3.3 - ie years ago.
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/supported-lenses.html

To find the profile, this article may be useful:

What To Do When Lightroom Can't Find Your Lens Profile - Lightroom Killer Tips
07-20-2016, 02:24 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
FA 77 has had a profile in Lightroom since v3.3 - ie years ago.
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/supported-lenses.html

To find the profile, this article may be useful:

What To Do When Lightroom Can't Find Your Lens Profile - Lightroom Killer Tips
I know, rawr.
07-20-2016, 03:08 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by RollsUp Quote
I know, rawr.
Sorry!

Anyway, now everyone in this thread knows that the FA77 and LR are friends.
07-20-2016, 04:38 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by SamuelDixon Quote
The first thing that strikes me is how much brighter iso 1600 is on the canon than it is on the K1. Anyone know why this is?
Using the same settings and profiles in Lightroom does not mean that two RAW files from different cameras will get the same treatment.

A brightness setting of "0" for one camera may correspond to a brightness setting of "+6" for another camera. An Adobe "0" does not mean "neutral". It just means the "default" for that particular camera (and profile).

Don't be fooled by a linear curve either. When LR (Adobe) shows you a linear curve that just means "you haven't done any adjustments yourself yet. Under the hood, the camera profile already contains a pretty strong "S"-curve. If it did not, all RAW files would look very flat.

So even if you choose "Adobe Standard" and all controls look identical, you'll get different processing. It is not secret that Adobe puts more effort into some brands over others in terms of making results look "good" out of the box.

To get a real comparison, either use a converter that does not apply different defaults under the hood (such as dcraw, or perhaps RawTherapee), or just tweak the files so that they look similar and then check which one suffered more (e.g., has more noise).

Also note what others have pointed out already: A manufacturer's ISO rating means almost nothing. Manufacturers consistently overrate the ISO value, e.g., state "ISO 1600" whereas it really is just "ISO 1150". Fuji is a particularly well-known offender. Sometimes this is rather obvious in camera comparisons when the same scene is shot with various cameras, all using the same ISO setting and f-stop, but some have to use slower shutter speeds to get a similar exposure. Oops.

I would have pointed you to a comparison page showing the real vs measured ISO values of the Canon 5D Mk II and the Nikon D800 (the K-1 has a very similar sensor; it does not have the same sensor as the D810, no matter what TN or others think), but DxOMark.com isn't working at the moment. The main effect you are seeing, however, most likely comes from different "under the hood" tone curves.

If you want to investigate this, you could use Adobe's DNG profile editor and make a clones of the "Adobe Standard" profiles with entirely linear tone curves. That would level the playing field to some extent, but I'm sure there are more "under the hood" differences when it comes to ACR and different camera brands.

QuoteOriginally posted by SamuelDixon Quote
But honestly, to me, the canon files look better.
See above and I hope you are not making the mistake of comparing 100% views. A lower MP sensor will always look better in such comparisons as the higher MP sensor provides more magnification, with the latter making lens imperfections more obvious and increasing noise as well. If you want to compare noise levels, either look at both images at the same size, or -- if you want to pixel peep -- rescale one so that it has the same number of pixels as the other one.
07-20-2016, 05:56 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Using the same settings and profiles in Lightroom does not mean that two RAW files from different cameras will get the same treatment.

A brightness setting of "0" for one camera may correspond to a brightness setting of "+6" for another camera. An Adobe "0" does not mean "neutral". It just means the "default" for that particular camera (and profile).

Don't be fooled by a linear curve either. When LR (Adobe) shows you a linear curve that just means "you haven't done any adjustments yourself yet. Under the hood, the camera profile already contains a pretty strong "S"-curve. If it did not, all RAW files would look very flat.

So even if you choose "Adobe Standard" and all controls look identical, you'll get different processing. It is not secret that Adobe puts more effort into some brands over others in terms of making results look "good" out of the box.

To get a real comparison, either use a converter that does not apply different defaults under the hood (such as dcraw, or perhaps RawTherapee), or just tweak the files so that they look similar and then check which one suffered more (e.g., has more noise).

Also note what others have pointed out already: A manufacturer's ISO rating means almost nothing. Manufacturers consistently overrate the ISO value, e.g., state "ISO 1600" whereas it really is just "ISO 1150". Fuji is a particularly well-known offender. Sometimes this is rather obvious in camera comparisons when the same scene is shot with various cameras, all using the same ISO setting and f-stop, but some have to use slower shutter speeds to get a similar exposure. Oops.

I would have pointed you to a comparison page showing the real vs measured ISO values of the Canon 5D Mk II and the Nikon D800 (the K-1 has a very similar sensor; it does not have the same sensor as the D810, no matter what TN or others think), but DxOMark.com isn't working at the moment. The main effect you are seeing, however, most likely comes from different "under the hood" tone curves.

If you want to investigate this, you could use Adobe's DNG profile editor and make a clones of the "Adobe Standard" profiles with entirely linear tone curves. That would level the playing field to some extent, but I'm sure there are more "under the hood" differences when it comes to ACR and different camera brands.


See above and I hope you are not making the mistake of comparing 100% views. A lower MP sensor will always look better in such comparisons as the higher MP sensor provides more magnification, with the latter making lens imperfections more obvious and increasing noise as well. If you want to compare noise levels, either look at both images at the same size, or -- if you want to pixel peep -- rescale one so that it has the same number of pixels as the other one.
Wow, thanks for that in depth answer.

Yeah I looked at as many of those comparison sites as I could find with K1 images before I picked this up and it always seems to perform very well in those tests. I do wish DXO would test it but I guess they seem to not pay much attention to Pentax cameras?

I've never really been much of a pixel peeper, but getting this camera kinda makes you want to check all that stuff out. The files are massive, the pixel shift ones in particular.
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