Focus method in landscape photography

mee · 09-30-2016, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by tuco

It's a rule of thumb!!

Yes, yet it is often not discussed as such. Even in this very thread.

Gimbal · 10-01-2016, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

The problem I have with this statement is that that live view output from the sensor is subsampled, such a high degree of magnification cannot be completely trusted due to the use of pixel averaging and line skipping tricks manufacturers use to produce the video signal in the first place. I won't go past 8X, in LV to asses focus. 16X is pointless as no real detail is further resolved beyond 6X as it is garbled by subsampling. A 7" HDMI external monitor with focus peaking capability (and when FP is tweaked) can be both fast, accurate and a lot clearer when assessing critical focus across the image than zooming in with the rear LCD.

Maybe you don't get more details beyond 8x, I don't know. But the detail you do get is larger and easier to see, why keep it small? I wouldn't mind a 32x enlargement.

**Digitalis** · 10-01-2016, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

I wouldn't mind a 32x enlargement

...why stop there?

128X I want to see all the things!

Wheatfield · 10-02-2016, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Mattox

FOCUS METHOD IN LANDSCAPE PHOTOGRAPHY

As mentioned interestingly enough in a previous post not related, what are you finding to be the most accurate and effective focus technique for shooting landscape/still photography with the K1?

Manual focus seems to work well.

**Wheatridger** · 10-02-2016, 09:43 PM

Man, I am struggling with focus like never before, since I got a K-1! Even at f8-11, it's hard to hold focus from front to back of a large bush at ten yards, as just one example. Depth of Field seems to have dwindled since the past time I used FF Digital, with a Sony a850. That was only 24 MPx- was that a relevant difference? When I go for 100% view now, I'm digging 50% deeper into each image. The actual focal plane is phenomenally detailed, critically sharp at 100% on a 27in. Retina screen. Is that same screen view so detailed that I'm finally seeing the range of unsharpness that always exists within the specified zone of DOF, but I was never able to enlarge this much to see it?

Admittedly I've gotten rusty on focusing skills, a combination of working mostly with wideangles on smaller formats. My usual rule of thumb that "under 70mm, over f8 and over ten feet away" will do, but that needs revision.

The amazing K-1 seems to have solved almost every other challenge and puzzle of digital photography: stabilization, dynamic range, color, noise. But suddenly, it's harder than ever to stay focused in a 3-D world.

splash_fr · 10-04-2016, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by dcshooter

MF in live view with 16x magnification.

I only use 10x (i.e. 100%), but this is the most precice imo.

rgds,
Gerd.

noelpolar · 10-04-2016, 05:17 AM - **1 Like**

I must admit... if I was LeRolls I'd struggle to know where to focus.... and 16x magnification .... well.....

(did I just type that out loud...)

Last edited by noelpolar; 10-06-2016 at 04:19 PM.

krazykat · 10-05-2016, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by noelpolar

I mist admit... if I was LeRolls I'd struggle to know where to focus.... and 16x magnification .... well.....

(did I just type that out loud...)

Thank heavens for shake reduction.

pinholecam · 10-06-2016, 06:44 AM

The best method for me so far has been LV with x8 magnification (more if unsure).
There is a lot of field curvature in the old wides and care needs to be taken to look out for them, so usually, I will have the magnified view on the off center instead of just the center.
I'd also check with the DOF preview if necessary.

Once I get familiar enough with a lens, some of these steps can be skipped, since I will know what distance marking will usually give me a edge to edge sharp shot.

f8 is often no longer enough on FF and with the high res of the K1 (as well as perhaps some lenses I use being old).
f11 is almost my 'go to' landscape f-stop nowadays.

Other observations,
24mm where its a soft spot between DOF to cover foreground to infinity with much ease.
With 28mm on FF, its much harder to get both foreground and infinity within the DOF (and focus stack may become necessary).

Mattox · 10-10-2016, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by dcshooter

MF in live view with 16x magnification.

how do you magnify with the K1 for focus. It is so completely different to the K5

splash_fr · 10-10-2016, 06:50 AM

Hit OK in LV

Na Horuk · 10-10-2016, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Mattox

how do you magnify with the K1 for focus. It is so completely different to the K5

You have to be in Live view and then you hit Ok button. The amount of magnification can then be chosen using an e-dial, or as an option somewhere in the Menu (I think its called Digital zoom). The good thing about this digital zoom is that it opens the aperture of the lens, so you can do some precise focusing. This is especially great with very fast primes and with manual focus, because Live view alone usually stops down the lens a little. And you can use this in combination with focus peaking.

Mattox · 10-10-2016, 10:42 AM

Stupid question, I know. The k5 was a little less complex to setup in live view that's for sure. Interesting to here everyone talk about DOF with ff. I have heard so much about FF being challenging for landscapes in this area. To think I used to love shooting at f8 on the k5, after hearing so much about DOF in FF I don't think I will be shooting under f11-14

MJKoski · 10-11-2016, 07:35 AM

It is impossible to have universal rule how to focus a landscape image (which hyperfocal focusing tries to achieve). There is usually something eye catching in the image worth focusing to. And Magnified Liveview gets you there. If there is nothing to focus on, then maybe the photo is not worth taking? Using Pixel-Shift successfully with landscape photo requires careful focusing to a target, be it a rock or a stick or whatever, to make it pop.

photoptimist · 10-11-2016, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

It is impossible to have universal rule how to focus a landscape image (which hyperfocal focusing tries to achieve). There is usually something eye catching in the image worth focusing to. And Magnified Liveview gets you there. If there is nothing to focus on, then maybe the photo is not worth taking? Using Pixel-Shift successfully with landscape photo requires careful focusing to a target, be it a rock or a stick or whatever, to make it pop.

You are entirely right that there's no universal rule because there's no universal pattern to landscapes.

To me, the best landscapes often have nothing to focus on (or everything to focus on) in that they capture an entire world that one might walk into and explore. Everything in the landscape is equally pin-sharp -- the wild flowers in the foreground, the trees to the left, the stream to the right, the rugged mountains in the background, the brilliant marshmallow clouds on a deep azure sky. They can be a like a natural wheres-Waldo picture with interesting animals, rocks, plants, etc. found throughout the image. But that's me!

Of course, some landscape photos do literally blur into the genres of more specific subject photography (e.g., wildlife, wedding, trains, BIF, etc.) in having a specific focal subject with the surrounding landscape providing a supporting/complementary role.

10-01-2016, 04:42 PM	#18
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Gimbal I wouldn't mind a 32x enlargement ...why stop there? 128X I want to see all the things! Last edited by Digitalis; 10-01-2016 at 10:51 PM.

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09-30-2016, 06:33 PM	#16
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by tuco It's a rule of thumb!! Yes, yet it is often not discussed as such. Even in this very thread.

10-01-2016, 09:03 AM	#17
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by Digitalis The problem I have with this statement is that that live view output from the sensor is subsampled, such a high degree of magnification cannot be completely trusted due to the use of pixel averaging and line skipping tricks manufacturers use to produce the video signal in the first place. I won't go past 8X, in LV to asses focus. 16X is pointless as no real detail is further resolved beyond 6X as it is garbled by subsampling. A 7" HDMI external monitor with focus peaking capability (and when FP is tweaked) can be both fast, accurate and a lot clearer when assessing critical focus across the image than zooming in with the rear LCD. Maybe you don't get more details beyond 8x, I don't know. But the detail you do get is larger and easier to see, why keep it small? I wouldn't mind a 32x enlargement.

10-02-2016, 08:40 AM	#19
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by Mattox FOCUS METHOD IN LANDSCAPE PHOTOGRAPHY As mentioned interestingly enough in a previous post not related, what are you finding to be the most accurate and effective focus technique for shooting landscape/still photography with the K1? Manual focus seems to work well.

10-02-2016, 09:43 PM	#20
Wheatridger Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Colorado Front Range Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 644	Man, I am struggling with focus like never before, since I got a K-1! Even at f8-11, it's hard to hold focus from front to back of a large bush at ten yards, as just one example. Depth of Field seems to have dwindled since the past time I used FF Digital, with a Sony a850. That was only 24 MPx- was that a relevant difference? When I go for 100% view now, I'm digging 50% deeper into each image. The actual focal plane is phenomenally detailed, critically sharp at 100% on a 27in. Retina screen. Is that same screen view so detailed that I'm finally seeing the range of unsharpness that always exists within the specified zone of DOF, but I was never able to enlarge this much to see it? Admittedly I've gotten rusty on focusing skills, a combination of working mostly with wideangles on smaller formats. My usual rule of thumb that "under 70mm, over f8 and over ten feet away" will do, but that needs revision. The amazing K-1 seems to have solved almost every other challenge and puzzle of digital photography: stabilization, dynamic range, color, noise. But suddenly, it's harder than ever to stay focused in a 3-D world.

10-04-2016, 03:53 AM	#21
splash_fr Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 178	Originally posted by dcshooter MF in live view with 16x magnification. I only use 10x (i.e. 100%), but this is the most precice imo. rgds, Gerd.

10-04-2016, 05:17 AM - 1 Like	#22
noelpolar Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Goolwa, SA Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,310	I must admit... if I was LeRolls I'd struggle to know where to focus.... and 16x magnification .... well..... (did I just type that out loud...) Last edited by noelpolar; 10-06-2016 at 04:19 PM.

10-05-2016, 05:15 AM	#23
krazykat Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 546	Originally posted by noelpolar I mist admit... if I was LeRolls I'd struggle to know where to focus.... and 16x magnification .... well..... (did I just type that out loud...) Thank heavens for shake reduction.

10-06-2016, 06:44 AM	#24
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,709	The best method for me so far has been LV with x8 magnification (more if unsure). There is a lot of field curvature in the old wides and care needs to be taken to look out for them, so usually, I will have the magnified view on the off center instead of just the center. I'd also check with the DOF preview if necessary. Once I get familiar enough with a lens, some of these steps can be skipped, since I will know what distance marking will usually give me a edge to edge sharp shot. f8 is often no longer enough on FF and with the high res of the K1 (as well as perhaps some lenses I use being old). f11 is almost my 'go to' landscape f-stop nowadays. Other observations, 24mm where its a soft spot between DOF to cover foreground to infinity with much ease. With 28mm on FF, its much harder to get both foreground and infinity within the DOF (and focus stack may become necessary).

10-10-2016, 06:26 AM	#25
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	Originally posted by dcshooter MF in live view with 16x magnification. how do you magnify with the K1 for focus. It is so completely different to the K5

10-10-2016, 06:50 AM	#26
splash_fr Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 178	Hit OK in LV

10-10-2016, 07:56 AM	#27
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by Mattox how do you magnify with the K1 for focus. It is so completely different to the K5 You have to be in Live view and then you hit Ok button. The amount of magnification can then be chosen using an e-dial, or as an option somewhere in the Menu (I think its called Digital zoom). The good thing about this digital zoom is that it opens the aperture of the lens, so you can do some precise focusing. This is especially great with very fast primes and with manual focus, because Live view alone usually stops down the lens a little. And you can use this in combination with focus peaking.

10-10-2016, 10:42 AM	#28
Mattox Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 292 Original Poster	Stupid question, I know. The k5 was a little less complex to setup in live view that's for sure. Interesting to here everyone talk about DOF with ff. I have heard so much about FF being challenging for landscapes in this area. To think I used to love shooting at f8 on the k5, after hearing so much about DOF in FF I don't think I will be shooting under f11-14

10-11-2016, 07:35 AM	#29
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	It is impossible to have universal rule how to focus a landscape image (which hyperfocal focusing tries to achieve). There is usually something eye catching in the image worth focusing to. And Magnified Liveview gets you there. If there is nothing to focus on, then maybe the photo is not worth taking? Using Pixel-Shift successfully with landscape photo requires careful focusing to a target, be it a rock or a stick or whatever, to make it pop.

10-11-2016, 09:14 AM	#30
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Originally posted by MJKoski It is impossible to have universal rule how to focus a landscape image (which hyperfocal focusing tries to achieve). There is usually something eye catching in the image worth focusing to. And Magnified Liveview gets you there. If there is nothing to focus on, then maybe the photo is not worth taking? Using Pixel-Shift successfully with landscape photo requires careful focusing to a target, be it a rock or a stick or whatever, to make it pop. You are entirely right that there's no universal rule because there's no universal pattern to landscapes. To me, the best landscapes often have nothing to focus on (or everything to focus on) in that they capture an entire world that one might walk into and explore. Everything in the landscape is equally pin-sharp -- the wild flowers in the foreground, the trees to the left, the stream to the right, the rugged mountains in the background, the brilliant marshmallow clouds on a deep azure sky. They can be a like a natural wheres-Waldo picture with interesting animals, rocks, plants, etc. found throughout the image. But that's me! Of course, some landscape photos do literally blur into the genres of more specific subject photography (e.g., wildlife, wedding, trains, BIF, etc.) in having a specific focal subject with the surrounding landscape providing a supporting/complementary role.