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11-10-2016, 06:47 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
** I say "brand-x" because the adapter in the photo is painted black
? The photo I saw has a silver colored adapter.

---------- Post added 11-10-16 at 08:51 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Tony B, brings up many valid points.

I have both a A7K and K1.
The K1 is fantastic for the features, dynamic range, high ISO.
Bucket load of really good photography orientated features that I can type on my phone.
Weakness :
1. Not as strong for MF wrt evf A7
2. Heavier and more bulky
3. AF with older AF lenses can have tolerance matching issues.
4. Some matching tolerance issues to get infinity for some old lenses.

While MF is no issues for slow work like landscapes, it's much slower for other genres like people photography.
So I mostly use the K1 with MF lenses for landscapes and seldom for portraits /streets.


The A7k on the other hand does well for manual lenses.
Shoots straight in Av mode with whatever aperture is selected on the lens.
Focus peaking is easier to discern too.


I find that there is a sense of beating up anyone who mentions that another camera is better (even if it's just for a few others aspects)
K1 has been out for a while now and I am sure it can stand on its own 2 feet wrt other cameras of there.

So take comments like mine and Tony's as what they are.
User impressions.
So certainly YMMV
The main comments Tony made I take no objection to. The comments indicating m42 adapter being hard to put on and off and getting lenses stuck on and putting fingers on mirrors doesn't match most of our experiences and we want to be clear about that problem since it may be due to a faulty adapter or user error.

11-10-2016, 08:27 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
If your adapter does not lock in, it may be due to a damaged lock spring (photo indicates unusual marks).
I don't see any unusual marks, and if it was "damaged" it must have came that way from the factory. The lock spring sometimes starts to work loose, and I have to tighten the little screw holding it down, but even then it still isn't reliable.

QuoteQuote:
I have been shooting M42 glass since 1970 and have never had an issue with cross-threading. Did you affix the cross-threaded adapter in your channel-lock photo or did you buy the lens with the brand-x** adapter attached?
Not sure where you got "cross-threaded" from. I never had anything cross-threaded. It just got stuck on the lens a few times. Also, I do not have any "brand-x" adapter. The only one I have is the one I showed, marked ASAHI PENTAX JAPAN, that came in the typical little green Pentax baggie.
11-10-2016, 12:14 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I don't see any unusual marks, and if it was "damaged" it must have came that way from the factory. The lock spring sometimes starts to work loose, and I have to tighten the little screw holding it down, but even then it still isn't reliable.
It sounds like the spring isn't formed quite right. When I use mine it never comes off the body unless I manipulate the spring to allow it to turn.


QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Not sure where you got "cross-threaded" from. I never had anything cross-threaded. It just got stuck on the lens a few times. Also, I do not have any "brand-x" adapter. The only one I have is the one I showed, marked ASAHI PENTAX JAPAN, that came in the typical little green Pentax baggie.
The picture may have been misunderstood. The lens itself is black and the first glance at the picture made me think the adapter was black also which I think is what Steve typed in a footnote. There were some counterfeit adapters but I never knew of any of those showing up in a Pentax baggie. Mine is actually in a Pentax cardboard box from the time before they used the green baggies. That adapter works well as does the KALT version I have which I bought new old stock; but the KALT I have requires a tool to remove it from the body and the tool is hard to get the knack of - once you learn it it isn't too difficult, but it's a bit fiddly to get off the first time. I also have m43 and an m42 adapter would be a possibility for me there but at this time I typically use the same Pentax m42 to K adapter on my K mount to m43 adapter. However truth be told I rarely use the m42 lenses for one reason or another.
11-10-2016, 12:33 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
actually in a Pentax cardboard box
These are "vintage"....and with a folded instruction sheet! Use a ball point pen to release from K Mount!

11-10-2016, 01:00 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
These are "vintage"....and with a folded instruction sheet! Use a ball point pen to release from K Mount!
That's the one!
11-10-2016, 01:22 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
The lens itself is black and the first glance at the picture made me think the adapter was black also which I think is what Steve typed in a footnote.
I dunno. On my monitor the back of the mount tangs appear to be painted black with a fair amount worn or chipped off. It looks to me to be one rough-looking adapter, painted or not. I can't imagine a situation where one of these would get stuck on a lens unless the threads on lens or adapter are bunged or where the adapter was subjected to significant torque while on the mount (stiff focus ring?). Such might also bend or deform the lock springs on the mount and adapter.

Regardless, sorry he has had problems using his adapter.

Edit: I did a closer look-see at the channel-lock photo and the machining is consistent with a genuine Pentax. The spring retainer is different than either of mine (larger and different angle), but that may be due to manufacturing variance over time (mine just say "Pentax" "Japan").


Steve

(...really am quitting the thread hijack...promise )

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-10-2016 at 01:35 PM.
11-10-2016, 02:02 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Sure there is...

Have you tried the K1 with the Zeiss 100mm f/2 Makro lens?
Based on images posted in the forum, the Zies is non-existent. I've seen many execllent 77 images, and not one Zies image that I can think of. If it's so great , why hasn't it caught my eye, like even once? I've seen so many times somoen buys some lens and declares it the greatest thing since sized great, lens purchasers are anything but impartial in their evaluations. But I am open minded about these things. Start posting some images and I'll give it a look.

Or to put it anther way, many have posted such things in the past and ended up looking like fools.

When it comes to claiming a lens is better than the 77 (or 31) talk is cheap.

---------- Post added 11-10-16 at 04:13 PM ----------

I've only had my K-1 for a few weeks. For my little birds at the feeder, well, it's quite possible it will never go out there again. It wastes my time. For land scape, I love the extra wide FoV perspective and dynamic range. Tess took an image for me today and looked at it and said, "you'r just a silhouette", with a bit of dodging contrasting and saturation I'm as good as could be asked for, just incredible dynamic range. Also the color seems really rich to me. I've quickly gotten used to putting the camera into high contrast situations, and low light situations.

The K-1 instantly became the lens in my hands, but until there's a reasonably priced Sigma 8-16 replacement, it won't be my automatic landscape lens, but it's pretty close.

Last edited by normhead; 11-10-2016 at 02:22 PM.
11-12-2016, 12:31 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Tony B, brings up many valid points.

I have both a A7K and K1.
The K1 is fantastic for the features, dynamic range, high ISO.
Bucket load of really good photography orientated features that I can type on my phone.
Weakness :
1. Not as strong for MF wrt evf A7
2. Heavier and more bulky
3. AF with older AF lenses can have tolerance matching issues.
4. Some matching tolerance issues to get infinity for some old lenses.

While MF is no issues for slow work like landscapes, it's much slower for other genres like people photography.
So I mostly use the K1 with MF lenses for landscapes and seldom for portraits /streets.


The A7k on the other hand does well for manual lenses.
Shoots straight in Av mode with whatever aperture is selected on the lens.
Focus peaking is easier to discern too.
I'd like to add few more pros/cons to this (Just considering viewfinder shooting):

1. K-1 gives you SR with MF lenses wich the older gen Sonys don't (A7R, A7, A7S)
2. K-1 has center spot focus confirmation for MF (anyone knows a good technical reason why this is limited to the center spot only???) which in my experience is reliable enough for lenses stopped up to f8 (it can't lock at all at f11 and beyond) - Sonys don't have a similar feature (useful in conditions where you can't "trust" your own eyes ).
3.Sonys that have IBIS also have a stabilized viewfinder - this combined with high level of magnification in the viewfinder allows for much more precise manual focus than peaking (but but peaking is in general also better implemented in Sonys).
4. EVFs of course give you WYSIWYG exposure in viewfinder but also brighter viewfinder in dark conditions (that helps with MF).
5. Changing the FL value for IBIS when changing lenses - on Sonys you can assing that to a button , on K-1 you can assing that to the quick menu, but the fastest way is to power cycle the camera. Both have an indication what's the currently selected FL but both are not really "in your face" so if you are not paying attention you can forget to adjust it when swapping lenses.
6. You can actually Autofocus MF lenses on Sonys with the TechartPro adapter (including SMC Pentax-AF 35-70mm F2.8 that Pentax can't AF anymore ) and it actually works well in daylight at least.

11-12-2016, 05:59 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
I'd like to add few more pros/cons to this (Just considering viewfinder shooting):

1. K-1 gives you SR with MF lenses wich the older gen Sonys don't (A7R, A7, A7S)
2. K-1 has center spot focus confirmation for MF (anyone knows a good technical reason why this is limited to the center spot only???) which in my experience is reliable enough for lenses stopped up to f8 (it can't lock at all at f11 and beyond) - Sonys don't have a similar feature (useful in conditions where you can't "trust" your own eyes ).
3.Sonys that have IBIS also have a stabilized viewfinder - this combined with high level of magnification in the viewfinder allows for much more precise manual focus than peaking (but but peaking is in general also better implemented in Sonys).
4. EVFs of course give you WYSIWYG exposure in viewfinder but also brighter viewfinder in dark conditions (that helps with MF).
5. Changing the FL value for IBIS when changing lenses - on Sonys you can assing that to a button , on K-1 you can assing that to the quick menu, but the fastest way is to power cycle the camera. Both have an indication what's the currently selected FL but both are not really "in your face" so if you are not paying attention you can forget to adjust it when swapping lenses.
6. You can actually Autofocus MF lenses on Sonys with the TechartPro adapter (including SMC Pentax-AF 35-70mm F2.8 that Pentax can't AF anymore ) and it actually works well in daylight at least.
Good points.
I'm on an older A7 (Kolari modded) and don't see a need for a higher end model for my needs.

Personally, I'd like to think that with the K1 out for some time now, the camera and the user base has matured enough to involve some discussion on the merits (and demerits).

Futhermore, if cameras like the A7 series make people use their Pentax MF lenses more and bring them to full glory with more samples on the internet (forums, flickr, facebook, etc), its not a bad thing at all.
Pentax deserves/needs all the exposure it needs to a few generation of users who think Canikon are historically the only good makers out there.


So black cat or white cat, I don't really care, so long as it catches the mouse.
11-12-2016, 06:42 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Personally, I'd like to think that with the K1 out for some time now, the camera and the user base has matured enough to involve some discussion on the merits (and demerits).
Although I'm growing very fond of the Sony A7, I want to be very clear that I'm not advocating Sony as being broadly superior to Pentax, or any one of the A7 series as being superior to the K-1. I have no loyalty to Sony. I bought my A7 for a specialized purpose because it met the specifications for that purpose. That was all about using adapted manual lenses (I don't even own a native lens for it!) and trying to mimic, in some degree, the shooting experience I had back in the "good old days" with my 35mm SLR.

It has worked well for that. I also know, and this from experience, that today's Pentax lineup is fantastic for the more typical way that most people shoot with modern lenses. It's a thoroughly modern DSLR of the highest caliber.

I probably shouldn't even have brought up the subject in this thread, but. . . The question was about experience with a full-frame camera. And I've seen quite a few threads over the years of people yearning for a severely retro digital K-1000 style camera from Pentax. The K-1 is yet another in a long line of Pentax cameras that aren't that. Meanwhile, Fujifilm and Sony have produced cameras that are actually pretty close to that.
11-12-2016, 06:58 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by npc Quote
You can actually Autofocus MF lenses on Sonys with the TechartPro adapter

Yes, but only on selected Sonys...A7(2)...A6300;A6500....all 24mp A7R(2) 42mp
11-12-2016, 07:34 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I bought my A7 for a specialized purpose because it met the specifications for that purpose. That was all about using adapted manual lenses (I don't even own a native lens for it!) and trying to mimic, in some degree, the shooting experience I had back in the "good old days" with my 35mm SLR.
I considered the A7 with the same intent. I loved the form factor and price point, but was put off by the lack of automatic aperture actuation with adapted lenses and the EVF experience. Thirty seconds with the EVF and I had a headache. I know several people who are happy A7 owners, but who primarily use their cameras on-tripod with back LCD when using vintage glass. No, not exactly the 35mm film SLR experience

The closest thing I have found similar to the experience of shooting film with a 35mm camera is shooting film with a 35mm camera. I still think it would be amazing to have a manual focus 24Mpx K-LX with non-crippled mount, but those are pipe dreams unless someone does a Kickstarter along the lines of the not-yet-made-it-to-market Konost Rangefinder. (Konost |)


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-12-2016 at 07:53 PM.
11-12-2016, 09:24 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I considered the A7 with the same intent. I loved the form factor and price point, but was put off by the lack of automatic aperture actuation with adapted lenses and the EVF experience. Thirty seconds with the EVF and I had a headache. I know several people who are happy A7 owners, but who primarily use their cameras on-tripod with back LCD when using vintage glass. No, not exactly the 35mm film SLR experience
I haven't experienced those issues. Composing and focusing with the aperture stopped down works well for me. (I also never have to reach for a DoF preview lever, like the one my film camera had.) It's always possible to open up the iris for critical focusing, but I find with magnification it's rarely-if-ever needed.

I don't even know why the EVF would give you a headache? It looks good to me. I find myself rarely using the LCD screen on mine, aside from menu operations.
11-13-2016, 02:45 AM   #44
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Latest EVFs looks good (though quite artificial) to me, too - but I also had issues with EVFs giving me a headache.
11-13-2016, 04:09 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Although I'm growing very fond of the Sony A7, I want to be very clear that I'm not advocating Sony as being broadly superior to Pentax, or any one of the A7 series as being superior to the K-1. I have no loyalty to Sony. I bought my A7 for a specialized purpose because it met the specifications for that purpose. That was all about using adapted manual lenses (I don't even own a native lens for it!) and trying to mimic, in some degree, the shooting experience I had back in the "good old days" with my 35mm SLR.

It has worked well for that. I also know, and this from experience, that today's Pentax lineup is fantastic for the more typical way that most people shoot with modern lenses. It's a thoroughly modern DSLR of the highest caliber.

I probably shouldn't even have brought up the subject in this thread, but. . . The question was about experience with a full-frame camera. And I've seen quite a few threads over the years of people yearning for a severely retro digital K-1000 style camera from Pentax. The K-1 is yet another in a long line of Pentax cameras that aren't that. Meanwhile, Fujifilm and Sony have produced cameras that are actually pretty close to that.
I think for people who want better mount/auto focus/metering for modern lenses (F series on) the K-1 is going to be the better experience. For older lenses, it probably is a toss up.

The whole EVF versus OVF debate is one of personal taste and therefore is impossible to litigate on the forum. Some like one and some like the other and I suppose that's OK. The ability to compose an image with the camera off is something that I really do like and since I only shoot auto focus lenses, all the manual focusing helps in the world mean little to me.

Be that as it may, there are no bad cameras in the market place now, but I think this thread is supposed to be more about full frame in general, than a mirrorless versus SLR discussion.
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