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01-29-2017, 01:43 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
Why? A healthy product line like APS-C have cameras at several price points all the time. 645Z is quite limited in sales numbers so there is little room for several price points. Still I guess we will see some overlap between 645Z and a more expensive full frame 645. Just like 645D and 645Z had an overlap.

For the K-1 I don't expect a replacement before 2018 at earliest, but I expect other FF models at other price points before that. Most likely a more expensive, higher end model within one year. Possibly with a small price cut for the original K-1 to slide it closer to the low end for full frame and make room for the more expensive model around 2500-2800 $.
It looks like they will have several APS-C bodies. K-70, KP, & the K-3II or replacement. There is a lot that could be added to the 645z to justify an upgrade. A larger sensor is just one of them. Ricoh may very well have image stabilization with pixel shift instead of the larger sensor. There is a lot in the K-1 that can be added to the 645 line. The competition in the 645 market is heating up and Ricoh needs to keep developing and innovating in this market. They really need to update the glass.

I'm not very confident that we will see a different FF body before late 2018. Ricoh is very slow. But hopefully the success of the K-1 will be enough to expedite development of new technology for the mount.

01-29-2017, 03:07 PM - 1 Like   #17
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I think the recent production pace for K-1 and KP - supposedly 7000 units a month - is instructive. If they can only sell 7000 units of an $1,100 camera in today's market, and 7000 units of their only FF at $1,800 when the D810 is still $1,000 more, I have my doubts they can sell enough units of a $2,800 super-premium FF to justify it. I think K-1 is the only FF we get for a long time. Unless they really develop super-premium features like competition-equal tracking AF w/ 50+ points covering the entire FF and Speedlights that actually work like Nikon we won't see a higher FF.

645x needs to be another game changer - 100mp in D645 body with full-coverage AF at $25,000, for instance - to justify a new body. Maybe 100Mp mirrorless. Jamming K-1 tech into the 645 body isn't enough.

They need FF lenses. Lenses is the game. 5 FA's - unchanged for as long as 25 years - and 2 digital FA updates to 25 year old designs plus 4 modern zooms (only two of which are OEM Pentax) isn't enough.

Last edited by monochrome; 01-29-2017 at 03:18 PM.
01-29-2017, 03:46 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Unless they really develop super-premium features like competition-equal tracking AF w/ 50+ points covering the entire FF and Speedlights that actually work like Nikon we won't see a higher FF.
I was thinking of a lower FF - equivalent of d750 or d610
01-29-2017, 05:56 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
I was thinking of a lower FF - equivalent of d750 or d610
They really don't have enough market share. The price would need to undercut 610 ($1,400), which would undercut the Pentax APSc flagship and I don't see them doing a 24Mp 6.5 fps FF to compete w/ 750 either.

K-1 is our FF for now. There just aren't any indications they're bringing another FF. NEXT UP k-mount camera is K-3 replacement.

01-30-2017, 03:01 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think the recent production pace for K-1 and KP - supposedly 7000 units a month - is instructive. If they can only sell 7000 units of an $1,100 camera in today's market, and 7000 units of their only FF at $1,800 when the D810 is still $1,000 more, I have my doubts they can sell enough units of a $2,800 super-premium FF to justify it. I think K-1 is the only FF we get for a long time. Unless..
I don't think its the selling rate that limits sales. I think its the production rate that limits. Why sell 7000 1800$ cameras if they can sell 7000 2800$ cameras in stead? I think K-1 was tactically priced low both to find out if there is enough pentaxians with enough money, but also to make a huge impression that Pentax offer high value for the money. A 2800$ should be next. This order have given Pentax more time to develop things like better AF for the upcoming model.
01-31-2017, 06:26 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I don't think its the selling rate that limits sales. I think its the production rate that limits. Why sell 7000 1800$ cameras if they can sell 7000 2800$ cameras in stead?
If that is the case, it will be the best position any business would want to be in. Selling rate is based on the price and while K-1 commanded a waiting line last years (and we know why!) it is not exactly the same. Price has stayed high and some of the used K-1s are not moving due to their high price. It is now more than a year .. long enough for any company to increase production volumes if there are demands.

---------- Post added 01-31-17 at 06:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They really don't have enough market share. The price would need to undercut 610 ($1,400), which would undercut the Pentax APSc flagship and I don't see them doing a 24Mp 6.5 fps FF to compete w/ 750 either.
There is a good market for that price range, used D610s are going around $900. If Pentax came in around $1200 to compete with D610, they should be able to get a share of that. Instead they have chosen to get the KP in that price range, let us see what happens to it
01-31-2017, 07:35 AM - 1 Like   #22
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Not a popular opinion with some, but on board flash provides terrible light (in my opinion.) Getting an add on unit for when it's needed is a good way to keep things modular.
01-31-2017, 08:35 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
If that is the case, it will be the best position any business would want to be in. Selling rate is based on the price and while K-1 commanded a waiting line last years (and we know why!) it is not exactly the same. Price has stayed high and some of the used K-1s are not moving due to their high price. It is now more than a year .. long enough for any company to increase production volumes if there are demands.

---------- Post added 01-31-17 at 06:29 AM ----------


There is a good market for that price range, used D610s are going around $900. If Pentax came in around $1200 to compete with D610, they should be able to get a share of that. Instead they have chosen to get the KP in that price range, let us see what happens to it
In essence then you contend Pentax should offer a new high quality FF camera that price- competes with a 4-year-old tech, used D610. Have you considered the difference between 40% market share and 4% market share?


Last edited by monochrome; 01-31-2017 at 09:35 AM.
01-31-2017, 02:13 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
Not a popular opinion with some, but on board flash provides terrible light (in my opinion.) Getting an add on unit for when it's needed is a good way to keep things modular.
As I said earlier, built in flash is bad, but ISO 51200 are worse. I need it in case of emergency. And I'm willing to carry around those 5 grams and 5 cm3, in stead of dragging along an external flash that weighs 100 times as much and have 100 times the volume.
01-31-2017, 02:40 PM   #25
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I don't and I am.

I would use a mid-range for casual shooting or an external flash for planned situations: 540 for indoor and 201 for planned outdoor fill. Unfortunately there's no mid-range FF.

D810/850 or 5D -well, $1,000 more +++

Last edited by monochrome; 01-31-2017 at 02:52 PM.
01-31-2017, 08:11 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In essence then you contend Pentax should offer a new high quality FF camera that price- competes with a 4-year-old tech, used D610. Have you considered the difference between 40% market share and 4% market share?
They have to compete with what is in the market and aggressively of they want to move up that 4% or be content with 4% and say whosoever wants will buy Pentax!!

If they are more value for money, people will look at Pentax - in fact that is why I chose my K5II over then D710.
However, I cannot do so between D610/750 and K-1..
01-31-2017, 08:16 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
They have to compete with what is in the market and aggressively of they want to move up that 4% or be content with 4% and say whosoever wants will buy Pentax!!

If they are more value for money, people will look at Pentax - in fact that is why I chose my K5II over then D710.
However, I cannot do so between D610/750 and K-1..
All they have to do is make a profit.
01-31-2017, 08:31 PM - 1 Like   #28
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Rather than return of the pop-up, what I wouldn't mind seeing would be an in-camera radio-controlled wireless PTTL system . A new flash would have to be introduced with a built-in receiver and/or a receiver module to operate older strobes such as the 360 (II). If ACON can make a wireless PTTL flash system for Pentax, Ricoh should be able to incorporate one into their flagship camera body.
01-31-2017, 08:34 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
That will be good if they figure out how to make that GPS optional. High ISO is the option but still a flash reveals all the colors etc.
hopefully with the rate at which new models are coming out - the K3ii, kS2, K70 and now KP.. we would get some nee FF soon
Agree. I have yet to use the K1 GPS, but I miss the flash controller which I did use frequently. I find myself using my Sony A7R for the impromptu multi flash situations. Sony makes a flash about the size of a deck of cards which can be a master, and at GN26, it can provide decent fill. I have many more big Pentax dedicated flashes which are great off camera, but nothing like the little Sony master.
02-01-2017, 06:01 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash.
I thought I would miss the built-in flash when I got the K-1. Turns out I don't, not at all. I much prefer to have the built-in GPS. With high ISO performances often you don't need a flash, and when you do, you're better off with a dedicated strobe anyway.

QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
That will be good if they figure out how to make that GPS optional.
This exists and is called the O-GPS1.

QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
High ISO is the option but still a flash reveals all the colors etc.
If you want a flash to get creative, you need something better than the built-in flash anyway. It's a non-issue.
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