Future FF - will it be with a Flash

abhaskare · 01-28-2017, 02:13 PM

The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash.
I have been to so many parties indoors - lights are dim, people are moving and the fastest lens and highest iso are not going to help here.
The flash on my K5II just is amazing as it captures all those moments that would otherwise have been lost,

A dedicated flash is not an option as it adds to weight, have to worry about AA batteries and it makes you look prominent.

The next closest option is the D750 but I would rather wait for a Pentax than go back to Nikon (being an ex d40, d5100 user!)

Adam · 01-28-2017, 02:18 PM

My guess is "probably". The main reason there's no flash is that they put the GPS up there. Once they figure out how to integrate it, the flash may return. That said, given the limited power of the on-board flash, most K-1 users probably don't miss it too much. It's nice to have it as a wireless controller, though, and for indoor snaps like you mentioned.

BTW, high ISO will help you- with the K-1 you can shoot at ISO 25600 and get away with it, for example.

abhaskare · 01-28-2017, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Adam

My guess is "probably". The main reason there's no flash is that they put the GPS up there. Once they figure out how to integrate it, the flash may return. That said, given the limited power of the on-board flash, most K-1 users probably don't miss it too much. It's nice to have it as a wireless controller, though, and for indoor snaps like you mentioned.

BTW, high ISO will help you- with the K-1 you can shoot at ISO 25600 and get away with it, for example.

That will be good if they figure out how to make that GPS optional. High ISO is the option but still a flash reveals all the colors etc.
hopefully with the rate at which new models are coming out - the K3ii, kS2, K70 and now KP.. we would get some nee FF soon

bobmaxja · 01-28-2017, 02:43 PM

FF model are not renew as fast as APSC. My expectation is 2018 . We need the Flagship APSC before.

**jatrax** · 01-28-2017, 03:09 PM - **2 Likes**

I would think a K-1mkII maybe in 2018 but nothing really new FF until 2019. And for what it's worth, IMHO, no flash on FF. I don't think Ricoh has the market share for multiple FF cameras in production at the same time and the K-1 is a "field camera" so GPS is important, flash not so much. I suspect they think that if you really need FF then you can use a flash gun. As Adam says the K-1 can go quite high on ISO and still produce usable images.

Best solution I have found for indoor parties or events is a wireless trigger and a couple of flash guns set straight up to bounce of the ceiling. Just set them on a counter or someplace out of the road. If you're working ask the bartender to let you set one on the counter behind him. No one really notices the flashes and it works amazingly well.

**Rondec** · 01-28-2017, 03:14 PM

I doubt built in flash for the full frame cameras. At least at this point, it doesn't seem possible to have GPS/astro tracer and also have a pop up flash.

I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really small external flash that is usable as an off flash controller.

**monochrome** · 01-28-2017, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I doubt built in flash for the full frame cameras. At least at this point, it doesn't seem possible to have GPS/astro tracer and also have a pop up flash.

I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really external flash that is usable as an off flash controller.

Yep. The new AF-201FG is pocket-sized, but it doesn't have the 'Z' master controller circuitry.

Simen1 · 01-28-2017, 04:46 PM

Its no requirement that every Pentax FF body from now must have GPS. I would prefer one without GPS, but with flash. I also would trade away screen articulation for lower weight and less bulkiness. But I dont think we get a D610/D750 competitor anytime soon. This year I guess we get a higher end FF body, so at earliest we get a lighter FF camera with flash in 2018.

pathdoc · 01-28-2017, 05:27 PM - **1 Like**

I wouldn't be surprised if the new flagship APS-C camera doesn't have one either.

noelpolar · 01-28-2017, 06:45 PM

I understand your pain with the loss of the flash. For those that just want a one camera lifestyle solution for a diverse range of use, the K-1 lacks in some key areas. In my own case I want to use/take the K-1 but K3 it is from time to time (flash and frame rate mostly, at expense of low light and field of view). it appears that there will be comprimises for some time still.

---------- Post added 29-01-17 at 12:25 PM ----------

Originally posted by Rondec

I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really small external flash that is usable as an off flash controller.

Won't solve it for me, or the OP I think.

There are several circumstances in my own case that I used the OBF and would never have used a seperate flash, no matter what the size. Mostly overseas travel or hiking with a camera and a lens or two.... I might just grab a few personal shots .... can't do that now so easily..... the other use was birding.... Safari Flash extender helped.... I can't bush walk with a flash hanging off the camera.... would be broken in no time.

abhaskare · 01-29-2017, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by noelpolar

I understand your pain with the loss of the flash. For those that just want a one camera lifestyle solution for a diverse range of use, the K-1 lacks in some key areas. In my own case I want to use/take the K-1 but K3 it is from time to time (flash and frame rate mostly, at expense of low light and field of view). it appears that there will be comprimises for some time still.

---------- Post added 29-01-17 at 12:25 PM ----------

Won't solve it for me, or the OP I think.

There are several circumstances in my own case that I used the OBF and would never have used a seperate flash, no matter what the size. Mostly overseas travel or hiking with a camera and a lens or two.... I might just grab a few personal shots .... can't do that now so easily..... the other use was birding.... Safari Flash extender helped.... I can't bush walk with a flash hanging off the camera.... would be broken in no time.

Yes so true

Also going around in a social/friends party using a large external flash just makes one stand out and people become conscious. With my K5II onboard flash, they think I am a casual guy and remain natural.

**ivanvernon** · 01-29-2017, 07:31 AM

I really don't use on-board flash or GPS, and I suspect that few professionals have much use for on-board flash. It is handy for us duffers--for fill flash outside for catch photos where lighting dynamics are not important. For the latter, on my K-1 I just throw on a small legacy flash AF200T which works perfectly well as a manual flash and is small enough not to scare the subjects at parties and similar gatherings, I mean it looks pretty amateur.

Why couldn't Ricoh offer the camera with an option--GPS or on-board flash? Or perhaps make the least-popular option a special order? Yes, of course, it would add to both manufacturing and channel of distribution complexity, but still a possibility.

Winder · 01-29-2017, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by abhaskare

The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash.

I doubt we see a new FF body for a couple of years. The K-3 and 645z should both be replaced this year or next. I would not expect a K-1 before those two.

**acoufap** · 01-29-2017, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by abhaskare

Yes so true

Also going around in a social/friends party using a large external flash just makes one stand out and people become conscious. With my K5II onboard flash, they think I am a casual guy and remain natural.

Can’t imagine your friends would think different if you put on a AF201FG - a really nice little flash. A bit bigger than a buildin flash but also a lot more capable. Looks a bit funny on my K-1 compared to a Metz 52 or similar.

Simen1 · 01-29-2017, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Winder

I doubt we see a new FF body for a couple of years. The K-3 and 645z should both be replaced this year or next. I would not expect a K-1 before those two.

Why? A healthy product line like APS-C have cameras at several price points all the time. 645Z is quite limited in sales numbers so there is little room for several price points. Still I guess we will see some overlap between 645Z and a more expensive full frame 645. Just like 645D and 645Z had an overlap.

For the K-1 I don't expect a replacement before 2018 at earliest, but I expect other FF models at other price points before that. Most likely a more expensive, higher end model within one year. Possibly with a small price cut for the original K-1 to slide it closer to the low end for full frame and make room for the more expensive model around 2500-2800 $.

01-28-2017, 02:13 PM	#1
abhaskare Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 136	Future FF - will it be with a Flash The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash. I have been to so many parties indoors - lights are dim, people are moving and the fastest lens and highest iso are not going to help here. The flash on my K5II just is amazing as it captures all those moments that would otherwise have been lost, A dedicated flash is not an option as it adds to weight, have to worry about AA batteries and it makes you look prominent. The next closest option is the D750 but I would rather wait for a Pentax than go back to Nikon (being an ex d40, d5100 user!)

01-28-2017, 02:18 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	My guess is "probably". The main reason there's no flash is that they put the GPS up there. Once they figure out how to integrate it, the flash may return. That said, given the limited power of the on-board flash, most K-1 users probably don't miss it too much. It's nice to have it as a wireless controller, though, and for indoor snaps like you mentioned. BTW, high ISO will help you- with the K-1 you can shoot at ISO 25600 and get away with it, for example. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

01-28-2017, 03:14 PM	#6
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I doubt built in flash for the full frame cameras. At least at this point, it doesn't seem possible to have GPS/astro tracer and also have a pop up flash. I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really small external flash that is usable as an off flash controller. Last edited by Rondec; 01-28-2017 at 03:31 PM.

01-29-2017, 07:31 AM	#12
ivanvernon Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Medina, OH Photos: Albums Posts: 7,224	Flash vs GPS I really don't use on-board flash or GPS, and I suspect that few professionals have much use for on-board flash. It is handy for us duffers--for fill flash outside for catch photos where lighting dynamics are not important. For the latter, on my K-1 I just throw on a small legacy flash AF200T which works perfectly well as a manual flash and is small enough not to scare the subjects at parties and similar gatherings, I mean it looks pretty amateur. Why couldn't Ricoh offer the camera with an option--GPS or on-board flash? Or perhaps make the least-popular option a special order? Yes, of course, it would add to both manufacturing and channel of distribution complexity, but still a possibility.

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01-28-2017, 02:35 PM	#3
abhaskare Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 136 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam My guess is "probably". The main reason there's no flash is that they put the GPS up there. Once they figure out how to integrate it, the flash may return. That said, given the limited power of the on-board flash, most K-1 users probably don't miss it too much. It's nice to have it as a wireless controller, though, and for indoor snaps like you mentioned. BTW, high ISO will help you- with the K-1 you can shoot at ISO 25600 and get away with it, for example. That will be good if they figure out how to make that GPS optional. High ISO is the option but still a flash reveals all the colors etc. hopefully with the rate at which new models are coming out - the K3ii, kS2, K70 and now KP.. we would get some nee FF soon

01-28-2017, 02:43 PM	#4
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	FF model are not renew as fast as APSC. My expectation is 2018 . We need the Flagship APSC before.

01-28-2017, 03:09 PM - 2 Likes	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	I would think a K-1mkII maybe in 2018 but nothing really new FF until 2019. And for what it's worth, IMHO, no flash on FF. I don't think Ricoh has the market share for multiple FF cameras in production at the same time and the K-1 is a "field camera" so GPS is important, flash not so much. I suspect they think that if you really need FF then you can use a flash gun. As Adam says the K-1 can go quite high on ISO and still produce usable images. Best solution I have found for indoor parties or events is a wireless trigger and a couple of flash guns set straight up to bounce of the ceiling. Just set them on a counter or someplace out of the road. If you're working ask the bartender to let you set one on the counter behind him. No one really notices the flashes and it works amazingly well.

01-28-2017, 03:20 PM	#7
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Rondec I doubt built in flash for the full frame cameras. At least at this point, it doesn't seem possible to have GPS/astro tracer and also have a pop up flash. I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really external flash that is usable as an off flash controller. Yep. The new AF-201FG is pocket-sized, but it doesn't have the 'Z' master controller circuitry.

01-28-2017, 04:46 PM	#8
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Its no requirement that every Pentax FF body from now must have GPS. I would prefer one without GPS, but with flash. I also would trade away screen articulation for lower weight and less bulkiness. But I dont think we get a D610/D750 competitor anytime soon. This year I guess we get a higher end FF body, so at earliest we get a lighter FF camera with flash in 2018.

01-28-2017, 05:27 PM - 1 Like	#9
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	I wouldn't be surprised if the new flagship APS-C camera doesn't have one either.

01-28-2017, 06:45 PM	#10
noelpolar Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Goolwa, SA Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,310	I understand your pain with the loss of the flash. For those that just want a one camera lifestyle solution for a diverse range of use, the K-1 lacks in some key areas. In my own case I want to use/take the K-1 but K3 it is from time to time (flash and frame rate mostly, at expense of low light and field of view). it appears that there will be comprimises for some time still. ---------- Post added 29-01-17 at 12:25 PM ---------- Originally posted by Rondec I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really small external flash that is usable as an off flash controller. Won't solve it for me, or the OP I think. There are several circumstances in my own case that I used the OBF and would never have used a seperate flash, no matter what the size. Mostly overseas travel or hiking with a camera and a lens or two.... I might just grab a few personal shots .... can't do that now so easily..... the other use was birding.... Safari Flash extender helped.... I can't bush walk with a flash hanging off the camera.... would be broken in no time.

01-29-2017, 06:59 AM	#11
abhaskare Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Phoenixville, PA Posts: 136 Original Poster	Originally posted by noelpolar I understand your pain with the loss of the flash. For those that just want a one camera lifestyle solution for a diverse range of use, the K-1 lacks in some key areas. In my own case I want to use/take the K-1 but K3 it is from time to time (flash and frame rate mostly, at expense of low light and field of view). it appears that there will be comprimises for some time still. ---------- Post added 29-01-17 at 12:25 PM ---------- Won't solve it for me, or the OP I think. There are several circumstances in my own case that I used the OBF and would never have used a seperate flash, no matter what the size. Mostly overseas travel or hiking with a camera and a lens or two.... I might just grab a few personal shots .... can't do that now so easily..... the other use was birding.... Safari Flash extender helped.... I can't bush walk with a flash hanging off the camera.... would be broken in no time. Yes so true Also going around in a social/friends party using a large external flash just makes one stand out and people become conscious. With my K5II onboard flash, they think I am a casual guy and remain natural.

01-29-2017, 08:45 AM	#13
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by abhaskare The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash. I doubt we see a new FF body for a couple of years. The K-3 and 645z should both be replaced this year or next. I would not expect a K-1 before those two.

01-29-2017, 09:13 AM	#14
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Originally posted by abhaskare Yes so true Also going around in a social/friends party using a large external flash just makes one stand out and people become conscious. With my K5II onboard flash, they think I am a casual guy and remain natural. Can’t imagine your friends would think different if you put on a AF201FG - a really nice little flash. A bit bigger than a buildin flash but also a lot more capable. Looks a bit funny on my K-1 compared to a Metz 52 or similar.

01-29-2017, 10:37 AM	#15
Simen1 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tromsø, Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 1,031	Originally posted by Winder I doubt we see a new FF body for a couple of years. The K-3 and 645z should both be replaced this year or next. I would not expect a K-1 before those two. Why? A healthy product line like APS-C have cameras at several price points all the time. 645Z is quite limited in sales numbers so there is little room for several price points. Still I guess we will see some overlap between 645Z and a more expensive full frame 645. Just like 645D and 645Z had an overlap. For the K-1 I don't expect a replacement before 2018 at earliest, but I expect other FF models at other price points before that. Most likely a more expensive, higher end model within one year. Possibly with a small price cut for the original K-1 to slide it closer to the low end for full frame and make room for the more expensive model around 2500-2800 $.