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01-28-2017, 02:13 PM   #1
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Future FF - will it be with a Flash

The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash.
I have been to so many parties indoors - lights are dim, people are moving and the fastest lens and highest iso are not going to help here.
The flash on my K5II just is amazing as it captures all those moments that would otherwise have been lost,

A dedicated flash is not an option as it adds to weight, have to worry about AA batteries and it makes you look prominent.

The next closest option is the D750 but I would rather wait for a Pentax than go back to Nikon (being an ex d40, d5100 user!)

01-28-2017, 02:18 PM   #2
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My guess is "probably". The main reason there's no flash is that they put the GPS up there. Once they figure out how to integrate it, the flash may return. That said, given the limited power of the on-board flash, most K-1 users probably don't miss it too much. It's nice to have it as a wireless controller, though, and for indoor snaps like you mentioned.

BTW, high ISO will help you- with the K-1 you can shoot at ISO 25600 and get away with it, for example.

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01-28-2017, 02:35 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
My guess is "probably". The main reason there's no flash is that they put the GPS up there. Once they figure out how to integrate it, the flash may return. That said, given the limited power of the on-board flash, most K-1 users probably don't miss it too much. It's nice to have it as a wireless controller, though, and for indoor snaps like you mentioned.

BTW, high ISO will help you- with the K-1 you can shoot at ISO 25600 and get away with it, for example.
That will be good if they figure out how to make that GPS optional. High ISO is the option but still a flash reveals all the colors etc.
hopefully with the rate at which new models are coming out - the K3ii, kS2, K70 and now KP.. we would get some nee FF soon
01-28-2017, 02:43 PM   #4
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FF model are not renew as fast as APSC. My expectation is 2018 . We need the Flagship APSC before.

01-28-2017, 03:09 PM - 2 Likes   #5
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I would think a K-1mkII maybe in 2018 but nothing really new FF until 2019. And for what it's worth, IMHO, no flash on FF. I don't think Ricoh has the market share for multiple FF cameras in production at the same time and the K-1 is a "field camera" so GPS is important, flash not so much. I suspect they think that if you really need FF then you can use a flash gun. As Adam says the K-1 can go quite high on ISO and still produce usable images.

Best solution I have found for indoor parties or events is a wireless trigger and a couple of flash guns set straight up to bounce of the ceiling. Just set them on a counter or someplace out of the road. If you're working ask the bartender to let you set one on the counter behind him. No one really notices the flashes and it works amazingly well.
01-28-2017, 03:14 PM   #6
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I doubt built in flash for the full frame cameras. At least at this point, it doesn't seem possible to have GPS/astro tracer and also have a pop up flash.

I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really small external flash that is usable as an off flash controller.

Last edited by Rondec; 01-28-2017 at 03:31 PM.
01-28-2017, 03:20 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I doubt built in flash for the full frame cameras. At least at this point, it doesn't seem possible to have GPS/astro tracer and also have a pop up flash.

I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really external flash that is usable as an off flash controller.
Yep. The new AF-201FG is pocket-sized, but it doesn't have the 'Z' master controller circuitry.
01-28-2017, 04:46 PM   #8
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Its no requirement that every Pentax FF body from now must have GPS. I would prefer one without GPS, but with flash. I also would trade away screen articulation for lower weight and less bulkiness. But I dont think we get a D610/D750 competitor anytime soon. This year I guess we get a higher end FF body, so at earliest we get a lighter FF camera with flash in 2018.

01-28-2017, 05:27 PM - 1 Like   #9
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I wouldn't be surprised if the new flagship APS-C camera doesn't have one either.
01-28-2017, 06:45 PM   #10
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I understand your pain with the loss of the flash. For those that just want a one camera lifestyle solution for a diverse range of use, the K-1 lacks in some key areas. In my own case I want to use/take the K-1 but K3 it is from time to time (flash and frame rate mostly, at expense of low light and field of view). it appears that there will be comprimises for some time still.

---------- Post added 29-01-17 at 12:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think Pentax could solve this problem by having a really small external flash that is usable as an off flash controller.
Won't solve it for me, or the OP I think.

There are several circumstances in my own case that I used the OBF and would never have used a seperate flash, no matter what the size. Mostly overseas travel or hiking with a camera and a lens or two.... I might just grab a few personal shots .... can't do that now so easily..... the other use was birding.... Safari Flash extender helped.... I can't bush walk with a flash hanging off the camera.... would be broken in no time.
01-29-2017, 06:59 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I understand your pain with the loss of the flash. For those that just want a one camera lifestyle solution for a diverse range of use, the K-1 lacks in some key areas. In my own case I want to use/take the K-1 but K3 it is from time to time (flash and frame rate mostly, at expense of low light and field of view). it appears that there will be comprimises for some time still.

---------- Post added 29-01-17 at 12:25 PM ----------



Won't solve it for me, or the OP I think.

There are several circumstances in my own case that I used the OBF and would never have used a seperate flash, no matter what the size. Mostly overseas travel or hiking with a camera and a lens or two.... I might just grab a few personal shots .... can't do that now so easily..... the other use was birding.... Safari Flash extender helped.... I can't bush walk with a flash hanging off the camera.... would be broken in no time.

Yes so true
Also going around in a social/friends party using a large external flash just makes one stand out and people become conscious. With my K5II onboard flash, they think I am a casual guy and remain natural.
01-29-2017, 07:31 AM   #12
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Flash vs GPS

I really don't use on-board flash or GPS, and I suspect that few professionals have much use for on-board flash. It is handy for us duffers--for fill flash outside for catch photos where lighting dynamics are not important. For the latter, on my K-1 I just throw on a small legacy flash AF200T which works perfectly well as a manual flash and is small enough not to scare the subjects at parties and similar gatherings, I mean it looks pretty amateur.

Why couldn't Ricoh offer the camera with an option--GPS or on-board flash? Or perhaps make the least-popular option a special order? Yes, of course, it would add to both manufacturing and channel of distribution complexity, but still a possibility.
01-29-2017, 08:45 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
The lack of flash is the only thing holding me back .. wondering if there would be a newer model that would bring back the flash.
I doubt we see a new FF body for a couple of years. The K-3 and 645z should both be replaced this year or next. I would not expect a K-1 before those two.
01-29-2017, 09:13 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by abhaskare Quote
Yes so true
Also going around in a social/friends party using a large external flash just makes one stand out and people become conscious. With my K5II onboard flash, they think I am a casual guy and remain natural.
Can’t imagine your friends would think different if you put on a AF201FG - a really nice little flash. A bit bigger than a buildin flash but also a lot more capable. Looks a bit funny on my K-1 compared to a Metz 52 or similar.
01-29-2017, 10:37 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I doubt we see a new FF body for a couple of years. The K-3 and 645z should both be replaced this year or next. I would not expect a K-1 before those two.
Why? A healthy product line like APS-C have cameras at several price points all the time. 645Z is quite limited in sales numbers so there is little room for several price points. Still I guess we will see some overlap between 645Z and a more expensive full frame 645. Just like 645D and 645Z had an overlap.

For the K-1 I don't expect a replacement before 2018 at earliest, but I expect other FF models at other price points before that. Most likely a more expensive, higher end model within one year. Possibly with a small price cut for the original K-1 to slide it closer to the low end for full frame and make room for the more expensive model around 2500-2800 $.
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