Pentax 24-70 in Crop Mode (K-1)

C_Jones · 03-10-2017, 09:07 AM

I have the Pentax 16-85 on a K-5IIs. I am contemplating a K-1/24-70 setup for landscape. Not having the long end of the 16-85 if I used the 24-70 on the K-1 would not necessarily be a drawback if I would be able to get similar results from the 24-70 in crop mode on the K-1. The crop mode would give me the near equivalent of 36-105 on the K-1. If the image quality was comparable in that mode to what my 16-85 image quality is on my K-5IIs it would be nice. So, would I be looking forward to that quality if I utilized the Pentax 24-70 on the K-1 in aps-c mode, essentially with the loss of the approximately one mp (crop mode (15 mp) vs. K-5IIs (16 mp))?

Last edited by C_Jones; 03-10-2017 at 09:57 AM.

**DDoram** · 03-10-2017, 10:00 AM

You wouldn't notice IQ difference with the 24-70 shot in crop mode. However, the DFA 28-105 is a cracker lens with longer focal length if you don'e need the constant f2.8. For landscapes, the DFA 28-105 is a great lens.

DeadJohn · 03-10-2017, 10:16 AM

What does the K-5 with 16-85 not do well enough in your typical usage? If you shoot a lot of landscapes at 85mm on a K-5, I don't think the K-1 with 24-70 is a good combination for you.

As an alternative consider the 28-105 to pair with a K-1. If 105mm isn't quite enough zoom for some scenes, you can crop for composition using processing software. You lose some width on the 28-105 (compared to your crop 16-85 which is 24mm equivalent), and if you'll miss that for wide angle landscapes add a 15-30 (versatile, but large and expensive), or a Samyang 20mm or 24mm. The total cost of 28-105 plus a Samyang wide angle is less than the 24-70.

Or, if you need the 24-70 because of non-landscape uses (thin DoF at f2.8, low light handheld, etc.), forget everything I wrote above. Use the 24-70 for landscapes and switch to a 2nd lens when you need to go beyond 70mm. Maybe the Sigma 150-500 listed in your profile, but that's a big gap between 70-150. Maybe add a DFA 100 macro or an inexpensive used manual 135mm.

Slash392 · 03-10-2017, 10:18 AM

Can you tell the difference between 15mp and 16mp? I think it would be like telling the difference between 72* and 73* Fahrenheit on a sunny day. Now, if you were to compare 36mp FF at 70mm AF with 16mp APS-c at 50mm MF I think you would see a whole new world. But I've never had a K5II, so I really can't speak for the IQ between it and the K1. They may be identical. Since you already have the K5II you are in great shape with your current investment. If you're looking for a reason to move up to the K1 there are many other features to consider. Chose carefully, you will not be disappointed either way.

pschlute · 03-10-2017, 10:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by C_Jones

I have the Pentax 16-85 on a K-5IIs. I am contemplating a K-1/24-70 setup for landscape. Not having the long end of the 16-85 if I used the 24-70 on the K-1 would not necessarily be a drawback if I would be able to get similar results from the 24-70 in crop mode on the K-1. The crop mode would give me the near equivalent of 36-105 on the K-1.

You wont get longer reach by using a 70mm lens on the K1 in crop mode. It does not magically become a 105mm. The size of your subject (say a person) is produced by the lens at exactly the same size on the sensor. So whether using crop or full frame mode the resolution is identical.

In practice if you find that you need a 105mm lens on the K5 for your photography because a 70mm doesnt cut it, then using the K1 in crop mode wont assist you at all (assuming the crop k1 15.36mp and k5 16.3mp produce identical practical resolution)

C_Jones · 03-10-2017, 11:11 AM - **1 Like**

Thank you all for your valued opinions/knowledge.

------ Post added 03-10-17 at 01:56 PM

I suppose the 24-70 for landscape and some types of portrait would be a nice setup, and possibly 15-30 later for super wide landscape if needed.

leekil · 03-10-2017, 11:57 AM

If you get the K-1 with 24-70, you will be able to use that lens for full-frame higher-resolution photography, which I assume is a benefit to you. If you also need to take the same photos as before, with the slightly longer reach of the 16-85, you can use that same lens on your K-1 in crop mode and you will get almost exactly the same field of view and telephoto capability as on your K-5 IIs.

C_Jones · 03-10-2017, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by leekil

If you get the K-1 with 24-70, you will be able to use that lens for full-frame higher-resolution photography, which I assume is a benefit to you. If you also need to take the same photos as before, with the slightly longer reach of the 16-85, you can use that same lens on your K-1 in crop mode and you will get almost exactly the same field of view and telephoto capability as on your K-5 IIs.

That is true. I had also thought that if I tried the 24-70 in K-1 crop mode that it might result in a 1.5 x effect on it to give me a 36-105 equivalent view, but I suppose that is not true.

The K-1 higher resolution in FF mode would definitely be nice.

leekil · 03-10-2017, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by C_Jones

That is true. I had also thought that if I tried the 24-70 in K-1 crop mode that it might result in a 1.5 x effect on it to give me a 36-105 equivalent view, but I suppose that is not true.

Using it that way, you would be doing the same thing as taking the picture in un-cropped mode and then cropping the photo afterward in order to "zoom in" to make the subject fill more of the frame. If you set the camera to crop mode, then it would basically be doing this for you. But if you are using a full-frame camera you probably want to take advantage of the higher resolution (or wider view) of the full frame, and if you only use it in crop mode, you are not getting those advantages.

C_Jones · 03-10-2017, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by leekil

Using it that way, you would be doing the same thing as taking the picture in un-cropped mode and then cropping the photo afterward in order to "zoom in" to make the subject fill more of the frame. If you set the camera to crop mode, then it would basically be doing this for you. But if you are using a full-frame camera you probably want to take advantage of the higher resolution (or wider view) of the full frame, and if you only use it in crop mode, you are not getting those advantages.

So I would be getting the 15 mp version of a cropped image in crop mode. As you said, like a zoom but with less resolution than using the full frame capability (36 mp).

Thank you for the clear definition.

---------- Post added 03-10-17 at 03:50 PM ----------

I will probably plan on getting the K-1 and 24-70 for the best resolution I can get using a zoom, aside from possibly the 645 series. The K-1 has excellent ratings.

DeadJohn · 03-10-2017, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by C_Jones

...I want the best landscape resolution I can get from Pentax other than the 645 series, that in zoom being the K-1/24-70...

The 28-105 is comparable resolution to the 24-70.

"While the 28-105mm can crush film-era lenses and is competitive with the D FA 24-70mm F2.8 in terms of sharpness, in absolute terms it is not as sharp as say, a prime."

HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR Review - Sharpness | PentaxForums.com Reviews
HD Pentax-D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR Review - Sharpness | PentaxForums.com Reviews

C_Jones · 03-10-2017, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

The 28-105 is comparable resolution to the 24-70.

"While the 28-105mm can crush film-era lenses and is competitive with the D FA 24-70mm F2.8 in terms of sharpness, in absolute terms it is not as sharp as say, a prime."

HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR Review - Sharpness | PentaxForums.com Reviews
HD Pentax-D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR Review - Sharpness | PentaxForums.com Reviews

Thank you. Good point. I think I would really need the wide 24 end though.

**DDoram** · 03-10-2017, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by C_Jones

Thank you. Good point. I think I would really need the wide 24 end though.

If you need 24mm at the wide end, consider an FA 24mm lens to go with the DFA 28-105. While I have both the DFA 24-70 and the DFA 28-105, I wish that I had done that.

C_Jones · 03-10-2017, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by DDoram

If you need 24mm at the wide end, consider an FA 24mm lens to go with the DFA 28-105. While I have both the DFA 24-70 and the DFA 28-105, I wish that I had done that.

Sometimes I would most likely want the flexibility to adjust the zoom at the short end, though your suggestion does sound sensible if I did not need that flexibility. Thanks for your opinion.

**TwoUptons** · 03-11-2017, 03:53 PM

I still shoot in crop mode occasionally, but if I really want the improved IQ I get from the whole sensor, it's disappointing...

But if I don't need the resolution, it's a quick way to crop photos before they get to the computer, and it feels like a bit of extra telephoto...

-Eric

03-10-2017, 09:07 AM	#1
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084	Pentax 24-70 in Crop Mode (K-1) I have the Pentax 16-85 on a K-5IIs. I am contemplating a K-1/24-70 setup for landscape. Not having the long end of the 16-85 if I used the 24-70 on the K-1 would not necessarily be a drawback if I would be able to get similar results from the 24-70 in crop mode on the K-1. The crop mode would give me the near equivalent of 36-105 on the K-1. If the image quality was comparable in that mode to what my 16-85 image quality is on my K-5IIs it would be nice. So, would I be looking forward to that quality if I utilized the Pentax 24-70 on the K-1 in aps-c mode, essentially with the loss of the approximately one mp (crop mode (15 mp) vs. K-5IIs (16 mp))? Last edited by C_Jones; 03-10-2017 at 09:57 AM.

03-10-2017, 10:00 AM	#2
DDoram Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 632	K1/DA 24-70 Crop Mode You wouldn't notice IQ difference with the 24-70 shot in crop mode. However, the DFA 28-105 is a cracker lens with longer focal length if you don'e need the constant f2.8. For landscapes, the DFA 28-105 is a great lens.

03-10-2017, 11:11 AM - 1 Like	#6
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084 Original Poster	Thank you all for your valued opinions/knowledge. ------ Post added 03-10-17 at 01:56 PM I suppose the 24-70 for landscape and some types of portrait would be a nice setup, and possibly 15-30 later for super wide landscape if needed. Last edited by C_Jones; 03-10-2017 at 01:56 PM.

03-10-2017, 01:24 PM	#10
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084 Original Poster	Originally posted by leekil Using it that way, you would be doing the same thing as taking the picture in un-cropped mode and then cropping the photo afterward in order to "zoom in" to make the subject fill more of the frame. If you set the camera to crop mode, then it would basically be doing this for you. But if you are using a full-frame camera you probably want to take advantage of the higher resolution (or wider view) of the full frame, and if you only use it in crop mode, you are not getting those advantages. So I would be getting the 15 mp version of a cropped image in crop mode. As you said, like a zoom but with less resolution than using the full frame capability (36 mp). Thank you for the clear definition. ---------- Post added 03-10-17 at 03:50 PM ---------- I will probably plan on getting the K-1 and 24-70 for the best resolution I can get using a zoom, aside from possibly the 645 series. The K-1 has excellent ratings. Last edited by C_Jones; 03-10-2017 at 01:50 PM.

03-10-2017, 02:19 PM	#12
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084 Original Poster	Originally posted by DeadJohn The 28-105 is comparable resolution to the 24-70. "While the 28-105mm can crush film-era lenses and is competitive with the D FA 24-70mm F2.8 in terms of sharpness, in absolute terms it is not as sharp as say, a prime." HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR Review - Sharpness \| PentaxForums.com Reviews HD Pentax-D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR Review - Sharpness \| PentaxForums.com Reviews Thank you. Good point. I think I would really need the wide 24 end though. Last edited by C_Jones; 03-10-2017 at 02:24 PM.

03-10-2017, 10:16 AM	#3
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	What does the K-5 with 16-85 not do well enough in your typical usage? If you shoot a lot of landscapes at 85mm on a K-5, I don't think the K-1 with 24-70 is a good combination for you. As an alternative consider the 28-105 to pair with a K-1. If 105mm isn't quite enough zoom for some scenes, you can crop for composition using processing software. You lose some width on the 28-105 (compared to your crop 16-85 which is 24mm equivalent), and if you'll miss that for wide angle landscapes add a 15-30 (versatile, but large and expensive), or a Samyang 20mm or 24mm. The total cost of 28-105 plus a Samyang wide angle is less than the 24-70. Or, if you need the 24-70 because of non-landscape uses (thin DoF at f2.8, low light handheld, etc.), forget everything I wrote above. Use the 24-70 for landscapes and switch to a 2nd lens when you need to go beyond 70mm. Maybe the Sigma 150-500 listed in your profile, but that's a big gap between 70-150. Maybe add a DFA 100 macro or an inexpensive used manual 135mm.

03-10-2017, 10:18 AM	#4
Slash392 New Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 14	Can you tell the difference between 15mp and 16mp? I think it would be like telling the difference between 72* and 73* Fahrenheit on a sunny day. Now, if you were to compare 36mp FF at 70mm AF with 16mp APS-c at 50mm MF I think you would see a whole new world. But I've never had a K5II, so I really can't speak for the IQ between it and the K1. They may be identical. Since you already have the K5II you are in great shape with your current investment. If you're looking for a reason to move up to the K1 there are many other features to consider. Chose carefully, you will not be disappointed either way.

03-10-2017, 10:58 AM - 1 Like	#5
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,216	Originally posted by C_Jones I have the Pentax 16-85 on a K-5IIs. I am contemplating a K-1/24-70 setup for landscape. Not having the long end of the 16-85 if I used the 24-70 on the K-1 would not necessarily be a drawback if I would be able to get similar results from the 24-70 in crop mode on the K-1. The crop mode would give me the near equivalent of 36-105 on the K-1. You wont get longer reach by using a 70mm lens on the K1 in crop mode. It does not magically become a 105mm. The size of your subject (say a person) is produced by the lens at exactly the same size on the sensor. So whether using crop or full frame mode the resolution is identical. In practice if you find that you need a 105mm lens on the K5 for your photography because a 70mm doesnt cut it, then using the K1 in crop mode wont assist you at all (assuming the crop k1 15.36mp and k5 16.3mp produce identical practical resolution)

03-10-2017, 11:57 AM	#7
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	If you get the K-1 with 24-70, you will be able to use that lens for full-frame higher-resolution photography, which I assume is a benefit to you. If you also need to take the same photos as before, with the slightly longer reach of the 16-85, you can use that same lens on your K-1 in crop mode and you will get almost exactly the same field of view and telephoto capability as on your K-5 IIs.

03-10-2017, 12:20 PM	#8
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084 Original Poster	Originally posted by leekil If you get the K-1 with 24-70, you will be able to use that lens for full-frame higher-resolution photography, which I assume is a benefit to you. If you also need to take the same photos as before, with the slightly longer reach of the 16-85, you can use that same lens on your K-1 in crop mode and you will get almost exactly the same field of view and telephoto capability as on your K-5 IIs. That is true. I had also thought that if I tried the 24-70 in K-1 crop mode that it might result in a 1.5 x effect on it to give me a 36-105 equivalent view, but I suppose that is not true. The K-1 higher resolution in FF mode would definitely be nice.

03-10-2017, 12:34 PM	#9
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by C_Jones That is true. I had also thought that if I tried the 24-70 in K-1 crop mode that it might result in a 1.5 x effect on it to give me a 36-105 equivalent view, but I suppose that is not true. Using it that way, you would be doing the same thing as taking the picture in un-cropped mode and then cropping the photo afterward in order to "zoom in" to make the subject fill more of the frame. If you set the camera to crop mode, then it would basically be doing this for you. But if you are using a full-frame camera you probably want to take advantage of the higher resolution (or wider view) of the full frame, and if you only use it in crop mode, you are not getting those advantages.

03-10-2017, 02:12 PM	#11
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	Originally posted by C_Jones ...I want the best landscape resolution I can get from Pentax other than the 645 series, that in zoom being the K-1/24-70... The 28-105 is comparable resolution to the 24-70. "While the 28-105mm can crush film-era lenses and is competitive with the D FA 24-70mm F2.8 in terms of sharpness, in absolute terms it is not as sharp as say, a prime." HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR Review - Sharpness \| PentaxForums.com Reviews HD Pentax-D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR Review - Sharpness \| PentaxForums.com Reviews

03-10-2017, 02:46 PM	#13
DDoram Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 632	Originally posted by C_Jones Thank you. Good point. I think I would really need the wide 24 end though. If you need 24mm at the wide end, consider an FA 24mm lens to go with the DFA 28-105. While I have both the DFA 24-70 and the DFA 28-105, I wish that I had done that.

03-10-2017, 06:00 PM	#14
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,084 Original Poster	Originally posted by DDoram If you need 24mm at the wide end, consider an FA 24mm lens to go with the DFA 28-105. While I have both the DFA 24-70 and the DFA 28-105, I wish that I had done that. Sometimes I would most likely want the flexibility to adjust the zoom at the short end, though your suggestion does sound sensible if I did not need that flexibility. Thanks for your opinion.

03-11-2017, 03:53 PM	#15
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,225	I still shoot in crop mode occasionally, but if I really want the improved IQ I get from the whole sensor, it's disappointing... But if I don't need the resolution, it's a quick way to crop photos before they get to the computer, and it feels like a bit of extra telephoto... -Eric

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