[northcoastgreg]

Not me claiming that but Pentax.. So in effect you are now claiming that all the lens coating development over the past decade or two has been a complete waste of time and we should just use legacy glass...

This strikes me as something that's written to try to win an argument rather than to gain understanding. Of course newer lens coatings constitute an improvement that can provide better flare control, color, and contrast. But how much improvement you get depends on how much glass is in the lens, how the lens is designed, and what kind of light you throw at the lens. While HD coatings constitute an improvement over SMC, you're not necessarily going to see that improvement in all circumstances. There are old legacy lenses that have superb color and contrast, and surprisingly good flare control. My M 20/4, for example, sometimes exhibits better flare control than my HD 21 Limited. In a sense, all that improved coating technology accomplishes is to increase the odds that you'll get better contrast and color and protection against flare in many but not all circumstances, because lens performance and light are a very complicated phenomenon, and one should not be too quick to draw dogmatic conclusions. One way to look at this issue is to recognize that many lenses have a sweet spot where they perform quite well. The advantage of modern lenses is not so much that they're better in all situations, but that they have a wider sweet spot. They can handle more challenges. But if you compare many vintage lenses at their very best with modern lenses at their very best, there's often very little difference —*certainly not enough to quibble over.

[Tbone51]

K3 vs K1 ii:

Image Quality is similar; actually, to my eye, I can't really tell the difference between K3 (24mp), K1ii (36mp) and K1ii (crop mode, 15mp). Even pixel-peeping, they all look good.


Advantage of K3: smaller, lighter, works so well with small lenses like 20-40, 15mm.

Advantage of K1ii: geotagging, wi-fi for JPEGs, significantly better at high ISO (relatively noise-less to 3200), much better dynamic range, works so well with 28-105 "kit" lens, larger viewfinder, significantly better autofocus C mode.

Both are very nice cameras. I like having GPS built in, rather than trying to attach the external 0-gps1 device; it fell off and broke. GPS is a nice feature. Crop mode works great.

[stub]

We are losing the conversation here a little. I have never stated that legacy glass is poor. Just that the digital age glass is better..! Its a fact that digital image sensors can record images better than film did. So we need a better quality glass to accomodate the development.. All the lens manufacturers are bringing out new faster lenses to match this. So I stick to my original statement..

You also have to pick and choose very carefully which legacy glass you go for. Yes, some have retained their quality in digital. But that certainly is not the same for all.

[pschlute]

"But to claim that most K1 users dont get the best out of their cameras because they are using old lenses that dont cut the mustard is nonsense."!

Not me claiming that but Pentax.. So in effect you are now claiming that all the lens coating development over the past decade or two has been a complete waste of time and we should just use legacy glass... The very coatings which Pentax says sets there DFA 24-70 among others above the Tamron lens they are put in..

I am claiming nothing of the sort.

I am simply questioning your assertion that "Most people dont get the very best from the K1 as they use legacy glass not designed for digital cameras"

At least half of the pictures I see on this website are taken with the six modern lenses I detailed in my post. They cover the range 15mm to 450mm. Of the rest there is a high percentage of quality FA; FA*; FA LTD lenses. I agree that the latter were not designed for digital, but if you think that the images produced with a K1 and a FA* 85mm 1.4 or a FA 31mm LTD are lacking because of that, then I am afraid you must be looking at different pictures to ones I am seeing.

Some older glass may not have as good flare resistance as newer glass, but for most situations will perform just as well or in some cases better.

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Last edited by pschlute; 12-28-2018 at 07:29 PM.

[normhead]

I am claiming nothing of the sort.

I am simply questioning your assertion that "Most people dont get the very best from the K1 as they use legacy glass not designed for digital cameras"

At least half of the pictures I see on this website are taken with the six modern lenses I detailed in my post. They cover the range 15mm to 450mm. Of the rest there is a high percentage of quality FA; FA*; FA LTD lenses. I agree that the latter were not designed for digital, but if you think that the images produced with a K1 and a FA* 85mm 1.4 or a FA 31mm LTD are lacking because of that, then I am afraid you must be looking at different pictures to ones I am seeing.

Some older glass may not have as good flare resistance as newer glass, but for most situations will perform just as well or in some cases better.

The current slogan is "Modern glass for modern sensors." That way we can assume they are doing something better than DA* glass, which was designed for digital, but was not designed for the K-1 sensor. Some of it was designed for the K-3 sensor which is more demanding than the K-1 sensor, but I think Pentax would like you to ignore that. Unfortunately for them, my DA*60-250 and DA* 55 1.4, both designed for digital work great, and the DFA 100 macro and DA*200 though both based on film designs work great on the K-1 as well. There are good lenses designed for digital out there. But in the Pentax mindset, they aren't "modern". Therefore we need new ones.

New big fat heavy "large in the camera bag" ones.
I'd say more, but Pentax isn't paying me by the word, or at all come to think of it. I don't even get a discount.

[stub]

Quite the contrary Peter,, As a studio portrait shooter. As there is as yet no modern 85mm f1.4 lens. I have spent the whole of 2018 looking for a FA85 1.4. Problem is I cant find one for sale.

will perform just as well or in some cases better.

In my experience I havnt come across a better one as yet...

---------- Post added 28-12-18 at 08:16 PM ----------

New big fat heavy large in the camera bag ones.

Certainly dont disagree with this either... I own what I call the big three Pentax lenses DFA 15-30 24-70 and 70-200.. and use them for important images... But just when on a walkabout will use something else. For that exact reason.. And of course the cost.

[Mikesul]

You can always find good FA* 85 f1.4 lenses on ebay from reliable Japanese sellers. They are not cheap.

[stub]

You can always find good FA* 85 f1.4 lenses on ebay from reliable Japanese sellers. They are not cheap.

will perform just as well or in some cases better.

yes agreed.. But I personally dont want to buy from Japan.. It being a lot of money and no warranty..!!

[reh321]

We are losing the conversation here a little. I have never stated that legacy glass is poor. Just that the digital age glass is better..! Its a fact that digital image sensors can record images better than film did. So we need a better quality glass to accomodate the development.. All the lens manufacturers are bringing out new faster lenses to match this. So I stick to my original statement.

@Kerrowdown does very well with film-era manual lenses on his K-1.

I believe any 'improvement' resulting from his using "digital" lenses would be minimal at best.

Yes, Pentax should upgrade old lenses - and they are.
Most of us should be more interested in user upgrades.

[stub]

Pentax should upgrade old lenses - and they are.

They arnt though.. They are infact totally redesigning them... Which is worthy. But taking a hell of a time.. Perhaps like other lens manufacturers they think the market only has a limited return..?

[pschlute]

I believe any 'improvement' resulting from his using "digital" lenses would be minimal at best.

I am sure if you "bench-tested" the modern lenses against the old designed for film lenses you would find the former do a better job of resolving detail that the K1 sensor take advantage of. But this would only be apparent if you print large pictures, and I would suggest that general photographic technique would play just as much a part to the final image. For most folks displaying images on the web there is no difference.

Where the newer lenses will win out is in flare control. But again there are many older lenses that handle flare extremely well, so if one picks their lens carefully and is aware of the potential pitfalls, there is no reason not to use film era glass on the K1 or any other camera for that matter. There are forums on this website that ably demonstrate that to be the case.

[clackers]

Quite the contrary Peter,, As a studio portrait shooter. As there is as yet no modern 85mm f1.4 lens. I have spent the whole of 2018 looking for a FA85 1.4. Problem is I cant find one for sale.




In my experience I havnt come across a better one as yet...

---------- Post added 28-12-18 at 08:16 PM ----------


Certainly dont disagree with this either... I own what I call the big three Pentax lenses DFA 15-30 24-70 and 70-200.. and use them for important images... But just when on a walkabout will use something else. For that exact reason.. And of course the cost.

I wouldn't have thought it mattered in the studio at f11, Stu.

[stub]

I wouldn't have thought it mattered in the studio at f11, Stu.

I try an keep it to f8 only Clackers....!! Lol

Unfortunately sometimes the models get dressed and I have to put my coat on and go outside into the blessed cold with them...!!

[danaflops]

For me, the K-1 was a great upgrade. IQ is amazing, and handling is excellent. That said, it IS bulky. I think I'd be very frustrated with that if I didn't have my K-01 for when I wanted a smaller package. If it's going to be your only camera, I'd consider carefully before upgrading. If you're keeping an APS-C body? Go for it. The photos you get from a K-1 are next-level.

[fsge]

Quite the contrary Peter,, As a studio portrait shooter. As there is as yet no modern 85mm f1.4 lens. I have spent the whole of 2018 looking for a FA85 1.4. Problem is I cant find one for sale.




In my experience I havnt come across a better one as yet...

---------- Post added 28-12-18 at 08:16 PM ----------


Certainly dont disagree with this either... I own what I call the big three Pentax lenses DFA 15-30 24-70 and 70-200.. and use them for important images... But just when on a walkabout will use something else. For that exact reason.. And of course the cost.

I am surprised you didn't manage to find a FA 85. I am not looking for such a lens as I own sigma EX version but only for 2018 I spotted maybe one per month on average