Is Pentax in the need of a M/L system?

Robot camera · 10-13-2018, 12:27 PM

More outside the (mirrorless) box thinking...

It would not be difficult to have a mirrorless camera that can use lenses with built in shutters. Pentax has already done this in the past, of course, but the shutter speeds here would be controlled from the camera. It would be just a few lenses, not all of them. Using motor technology that's been developed for autofocus, I think speeds of 1/1000th or even 1/2000th would be attainable. If you could get flash sync at such a speed, there would be things you could do that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

Unregistered User · 10-13-2018, 03:11 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Robot camera

More outside the (mirrorless) box thinking...

It would not be difficult to have a mirrorless camera that can use lenses with built in shutters. Pentax has already done this in the past, of course, but the shutter speeds here would be controlled from the camera. It would be just a few lenses, not all of them. Using motor technology that's been developed for autofocus, I think speeds of 1/1000th or even 1/2000th would be attainable. If you could get flash sync at such a speed, there would be things you could do that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

They already have that- it is the Q7. 01, 02, 06 and 08 are all leaf shutter up to 1/2000, flash sync at 1/2000, plus a built-in ND filter!

str8talk83 · 12-27-2018, 12:36 PM

Another advantage I’m not seeing here of the new mounts being introduced is their short registration distance. Look at the new Sony wides that are taking advantage of this.

Voigtlander 10, 12, 15 and 21 for Sony FE

Sony 24 f/1.4, 12-24G and 16-35 f/2.8 GM.

For landscape oriented shooters, the size and weight savings are noticeable on the wide end. Once you get past around 35mm though, lens designs basically end up becoming longer and there is less and less of an advantage for the flange distance (and it’s easy to argue that there begins to be ergonomic disadvantages the longer the focal lengths get).

I started shooting Sony FE towards the intro in the market and what I saw was a rejection by the market of the original platform. It was designed to be small, light and cheap with the required compromises. Customers demanded pro grade build and lenses and Sony has been going in that direction ever since. Nikon and Canon seem to have paid attention and joined in right where the demand is.

I think it’s very unlikely that Pentax can start a whole new system at this point given what we’ve seen with full frame so far. While I would generally recommend against using a DSLR mount on mirrorless, I don’t see Pentax having any other choice. In that case, it really may be better for them to avoid expansion into mirrorless at all.

bobmaxja · 12-27-2018, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by str8talk83

I started shooting Sony FE towards the intro in the market and what I saw was a rejection by the market of the original platform. It was designed to be small, light and cheap with the required compromises. Customers demanded pro grade build and lenses and Sony has been going in that direction ever since. Nikon and Canon seem to have paid attention and joined in right where the demand is.

Well, after reading financial reports from Sony , it's not the market who decided that Sonyneed pro grade, It's because they were not making any money and decided to go high end to make profit. THat why you almost see way less entry level DSLR or mirrorless.

str8talk83 · 01-02-2019, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by bobmaxja

Well, after reading financial reports from Sony , it's not the market who decided that Sonyneed pro grade, It's because they were not making any money and decided to go high end to make profit. THat why you almost see way less entry level DSLR or mirrorless.

That makes sense. I probably spend too much time on forums which tends to skew perspectives a bit. Thanks for the insight.

kooks · 02-05-2019, 05:05 PM

So. the mirrorless market keeps moving forward and Ricoh is mmmm well. Ricoh just watch the show.

Wheatfield · 02-05-2019, 08:50 PM - **3 Likes**

Here we go again.

**Larrymc** · 02-05-2019, 08:55 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Here we go again.

Can you believe it???? It never ends for very long.

**Larrymc** · 02-05-2019, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by kooks

So. the mirrorless market keeps moving forward and Ricoh is mmmm well. Ricoh just watch the show.

Who cares........just do yourself a favor and buy one of those fantastic cameras. I'm sure you will keep us well informed about how Ricoh/Pentax is screwing up.....again and again and again.

**clackers** · 02-05-2019, 10:32 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Larrymc

Who cares........just do yourself a favor and buy one of those fantastic cameras. I'm sure you will keep us well informed about how Ricoh/Pentax is screwing up.....again and again and again.

And which will it be? A disappointing EOS-R, a disappointing Nikon Z, a disappointing Panny, or a more mature Sony for about the same money as the Pentax K-1 but only 24Mp?

Ricoh I'm sure will watch very, very carefully at the results of these wars before coming out with their own, just as they did with the 645D and the K-1.

kooks · 02-06-2019, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Larrymc

Who cares........just do yourself a favor and buy one of those fantastic cameras. I'm sure you will keep us well informed about how Ricoh/Pentax is screwing up.....again and again and again.

Sorry if the post bothered you, that wasn't the idea.. my point was that the market is moving way to fast and I honestly don't see Ricoh doing nothing to "be there".. Do i care if they do? yes and no... yes because I like the brand and i wish the best for it.. but at the same time I don't because I sold all my Pentax gear basically because of the same passivity that Ricoh shows. I really hope that some how they jump in some wagon, any wagon so the brand can survive and keep delivering great products. But now more than ever I think that they need to release something to at least make them be there.. if is a mirrorless thats ok.. if is a great DSLR, that's ok too..

**Rondec** · 02-06-2019, 04:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by kooks

So. the mirrorless market keeps moving forward and Ricoh is mmmm well. Ricoh just watch the show.

How about the fact that if Ricoh continues to develop for SLRs they may be the one brand that continues to support traditional technology.

It is clear that Canon and Nikon and Sony are fully focused on mirrorless -- at least for the moment. That certainly could help Ricoh grow as there are plenty of folks out there who don't like EVFs for whatever reason.

Just to make it totally clear, if you aren't interested in video, these mirrorless cameras aren't such a great deal and have major downsides (like banding when shooting backlit, wide aperture shots).

Kunzite · 02-06-2019, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Here we go again.

Surprisingly, the following video is on topic:

You Tube

D1N0 · 02-06-2019, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

How about the fact that if Ricoh continues to develop for SLRs they may be the one brand that continues to support traditional technology.

Nikon is still making the F6 Film slr

blind-bat · 02-06-2019, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by kooks

Sorry if the post bothered you, that wasn't the idea.. my point was that the market is moving way to fast and I honestly don't see Ricoh doing nothing to "be there".. Do i care if they do? yes and no... yes because I like the brand and i wish the best for it.. but at the same time I don't because I sold all my Pentax gear basically because of the same passivity that Ricoh shows. I really hope that some how they jump in some wagon, any wagon so the brand can survive and keep delivering great products. But now more than ever I think that they need to release something to at least make them be there.. if is a mirrorless thats ok.. if is a great DSLR, that's ok too..

I'm sure it's been said before but a smaller company needs to pick it's battles and not fight every one. They also need to emphasize what they can do that their competitors cannot in order to increase visibility and market share.

02-05-2019, 05:05 PM	#126
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794 Original Poster	So. the mirrorless market keeps moving forward and Ricoh is mmmm well. Ricoh just watch the show. Attached Images

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10-13-2018, 12:27 PM	#121
Robot camera Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire Posts: 194	More outside the (mirrorless) box thinking... It would not be difficult to have a mirrorless camera that can use lenses with built in shutters. Pentax has already done this in the past, of course, but the shutter speeds here would be controlled from the camera. It would be just a few lenses, not all of them. Using motor technology that's been developed for autofocus, I think speeds of 1/1000th or even 1/2000th would be attainable. If you could get flash sync at such a speed, there would be things you could do that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

10-13-2018, 03:11 PM - 1 Like	#122
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by Robot camera More outside the (mirrorless) box thinking... It would not be difficult to have a mirrorless camera that can use lenses with built in shutters. Pentax has already done this in the past, of course, but the shutter speeds here would be controlled from the camera. It would be just a few lenses, not all of them. Using motor technology that's been developed for autofocus, I think speeds of 1/1000th or even 1/2000th would be attainable. If you could get flash sync at such a speed, there would be things you could do that wouldn't be possible otherwise. They already have that- it is the Q7. 01, 02, 06 and 08 are all leaf shutter up to 1/2000, flash sync at 1/2000, plus a built-in ND filter!

12-27-2018, 12:36 PM	#123
str8talk83 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bluffton, SC Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Another advantage I’m not seeing here of the new mounts being introduced is their short registration distance. Look at the new Sony wides that are taking advantage of this. Voigtlander 10, 12, 15 and 21 for Sony FE Sony 24 f/1.4, 12-24G and 16-35 f/2.8 GM. For landscape oriented shooters, the size and weight savings are noticeable on the wide end. Once you get past around 35mm though, lens designs basically end up becoming longer and there is less and less of an advantage for the flange distance (and it’s easy to argue that there begins to be ergonomic disadvantages the longer the focal lengths get). I started shooting Sony FE towards the intro in the market and what I saw was a rejection by the market of the original platform. It was designed to be small, light and cheap with the required compromises. Customers demanded pro grade build and lenses and Sony has been going in that direction ever since. Nikon and Canon seem to have paid attention and joined in right where the demand is. I think it’s very unlikely that Pentax can start a whole new system at this point given what we’ve seen with full frame so far. While I would generally recommend against using a DSLR mount on mirrorless, I don’t see Pentax having any other choice. In that case, it really may be better for them to avoid expansion into mirrorless at all.

12-27-2018, 06:02 PM	#124
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Originally posted by str8talk83 I started shooting Sony FE towards the intro in the market and what I saw was a rejection by the market of the original platform. It was designed to be small, light and cheap with the required compromises. Customers demanded pro grade build and lenses and Sony has been going in that direction ever since. Nikon and Canon seem to have paid attention and joined in right where the demand is. Well, after reading financial reports from Sony , it's not the market who decided that Sonyneed pro grade, It's because they were not making any money and decided to go high end to make profit. THat why you almost see way less entry level DSLR or mirrorless.

01-02-2019, 09:45 PM	#125
str8talk83 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bluffton, SC Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Originally posted by bobmaxja Well, after reading financial reports from Sony , it's not the market who decided that Sonyneed pro grade, It's because they were not making any money and decided to go high end to make profit. THat why you almost see way less entry level DSLR or mirrorless. That makes sense. I probably spend too much time on forums which tends to skew perspectives a bit. Thanks for the insight.

02-05-2019, 08:50 PM - 3 Likes	#127
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Here we go again.

02-05-2019, 08:55 PM - 1 Like	#128
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by Wheatfield Here we go again. Can you believe it???? It never ends for very long.

02-05-2019, 09:00 PM	#129
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by kooks So. the mirrorless market keeps moving forward and Ricoh is mmmm well. Ricoh just watch the show. Who cares........just do yourself a favor and buy one of those fantastic cameras. I'm sure you will keep us well informed about how Ricoh/Pentax is screwing up.....again and again and again.

02-05-2019, 10:32 PM - 1 Like	#130
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Larrymc Who cares........just do yourself a favor and buy one of those fantastic cameras. I'm sure you will keep us well informed about how Ricoh/Pentax is screwing up.....again and again and again. And which will it be? A disappointing EOS-R, a disappointing Nikon Z, a disappointing Panny, or a more mature Sony for about the same money as the Pentax K-1 but only 24Mp? Ricoh I'm sure will watch very, very carefully at the results of these wars before coming out with their own, just as they did with the 645D and the K-1.

02-06-2019, 01:10 AM	#131
kooks Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: San José, Costa Rica Photos: Albums Posts: 794 Original Poster	Originally posted by Larrymc Who cares........just do yourself a favor and buy one of those fantastic cameras. I'm sure you will keep us well informed about how Ricoh/Pentax is screwing up.....again and again and again. Sorry if the post bothered you, that wasn't the idea.. my point was that the market is moving way to fast and I honestly don't see Ricoh doing nothing to "be there".. Do i care if they do? yes and no... yes because I like the brand and i wish the best for it.. but at the same time I don't because I sold all my Pentax gear basically because of the same passivity that Ricoh shows. I really hope that some how they jump in some wagon, any wagon so the brand can survive and keep delivering great products. But now more than ever I think that they need to release something to at least make them be there.. if is a mirrorless thats ok.. if is a great DSLR, that's ok too..

02-06-2019, 04:01 AM - 1 Like	#132
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by kooks So. the mirrorless market keeps moving forward and Ricoh is mmmm well. Ricoh just watch the show. How about the fact that if Ricoh continues to develop for SLRs they may be the one brand that continues to support traditional technology. It is clear that Canon and Nikon and Sony are fully focused on mirrorless -- at least for the moment. That certainly could help Ricoh grow as there are plenty of folks out there who don't like EVFs for whatever reason. Just to make it totally clear, if you aren't interested in video, these mirrorless cameras aren't such a great deal and have major downsides (like banding when shooting backlit, wide aperture shots).

02-06-2019, 04:42 AM	#134
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Rondec How about the fact that if Ricoh continues to develop for SLRs they may be the one brand that continues to support traditional technology. Nikon is still making the F6 Film slr

02-06-2019, 08:23 AM	#135
blind-bat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 256	Originally posted by kooks Sorry if the post bothered you, that wasn't the idea.. my point was that the market is moving way to fast and I honestly don't see Ricoh doing nothing to "be there".. Do i care if they do? yes and no... yes because I like the brand and i wish the best for it.. but at the same time I don't because I sold all my Pentax gear basically because of the same passivity that Ricoh shows. I really hope that some how they jump in some wagon, any wagon so the brand can survive and keep delivering great products. But now more than ever I think that they need to release something to at least make them be there.. if is a mirrorless thats ok.. if is a great DSLR, that's ok too.. I'm sure it's been said before but a smaller company needs to pick it's battles and not fight every one. They also need to emphasize what they can do that their competitors cannot in order to increase visibility and market share.