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02-06-2019, 01:35 PM - 1 Like   #136
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Me thinks that mirrorless is becoming the next big thing and that Ricoh is sitting it out at its own peril.

02-06-2019, 02:57 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
Sorry if the post bothered you, that wasn't the idea.. my point was that the market is moving way to fast and I honestly don't see Ricoh doing nothing to "be there".. Do i care if they do? yes and no... yes because I like the brand and i wish the best for it.. but at the same time I don't because I sold all my Pentax gear basically because of the same passivity that Ricoh shows. I really hope that some how they jump in some wagon, any wagon so the brand can survive and keep delivering great products. But now more than ever I think that they need to release something to at least make them be there.. if is a mirrorless thats ok.. if is a great DSLR, that's ok too.
Actually, we know very little right now. Hopefully we will know a little more within the next three weeks. Pentax is very coy with their plans. We know that they are studying MILC, but we don't know what they have been learning. Consider the whole thing to be an adventure.
02-06-2019, 06:08 PM - 1 Like   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
We know that they are studying MILC, but we don't know what they have been learning. Consider the whole thing to be an adventure.
True.. the question here is... how long will that learning thing last? i mean, for the brand took way to long to have a FF and they were just "studing the market", it was a very very high price that was paid for not having a FF camera sooner... will that happen again with a capable mirrorless system? hope that it doesn't but at this time its just a limbo situation where nobody knows what it going to happen in the next days, months..... years.... I think that perhaps people is not just expecting a M/L camera or system.. people is just expecting something to hype the vibe.. K3ii is way to old for todays standard, K1 good but samething is getting old and nichie.. and if we add to that that many lenses are needed, and people don't see nothing more than a revamp old FA... I honestly don't know what to think of what is going on.
02-07-2019, 04:17 AM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Me thinks that mirrorless is becoming the next big thing and that Ricoh is sitting it out at its own peril.
Maybe. But mirrorless doesn't really play to Pentax's strong points. They haven't been a tech heavy company. They haven't done much with video and the idea of creating a new mount and trying to design a raft of new lenses for it sounds pretty daunting. Beyond which, being the sixth or seventh mirrorless player on the market doesn't bode well, unless you can actually bring something special out that sets you apart.

Even Canon and Nikon have received some negative reviews for their initial mirrorless offerings, I doubt Pentax would do as well. How would an MILC with middling auto focus, poor auto focus tracking, EVF that has some lag and almost no lenses (except adapted ones) do in the market? Seems like it wouldn't do to well. And yet, there is no reason to assume that Pentax could do much better than that.

At the same time, SLRs continue to out sell mirrorless cameras and there is a strong segment of the market that continues to like optical viewfinders for whatever reason. I do think if Pentax can come out with more solid lens offerings, they can continue to do well in that segment of the market.

02-09-2019, 11:35 AM - 1 Like   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
people is just expecting something to hype the vibe.
People is expecting too much. Just enjoy the gear you have and quit worrying about Ricoh. They are not paying me to worry about them, they have plenty of executives they are paying to worry.
02-09-2019, 12:12 PM - 1 Like   #141
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You know if you are firmly invested in a camera system and I refer to any camera system...I'll use examples like the Nikon DSLR, Canon DSLR, Pentax DSLR....they're all really good systems. Why would you get it into your head that the newest and latest...ie: Canon / Nikon Mirrorless...is all of a suddenly greatly superior to what you have now and that you must switch.

I have my Pentax DSLR's...K10D, Km, K5 and K-1 and a number of Takumar/ Pentax lenses both film era and digital (Pentax and one lonely Sigma) lenses. I seem to keep on buying DSLR bodies and lenses...Pentax stuff for the most part...because I'm pleased with what they do.

Some suggest that I could shave some ounces off my equipment by dumping my Pentax DSLR gear and getting Fuji stuff. Fuji is a fine piece of equipment no doubt, but I'm more than pleased with what I got. So far, even at my advanced age...I don't notice the extra weight that others have told me, I can shave off...if I get Fuji Mirrorless.

Just thinking of selling my Pentax gear, then buying new equipment from another manufacturer...without really knowing if the latest Fuji would enhance my picture taking ability to a noticeable level, over what I enjoy with my K-1 and 100mm F 2,8 DF A, etc..Is that a good idea ? I dunno.

Sure there would be the novelty factor of having new equipment, but my experience is that eventually the novelty of new and different...wears off. Sometimes in a couple of weeks.

I generally tend to keep my stuff for the duration. I still haven't learned all that my K10D can do and I've had that since 2007. I might be a slow learner.

We still have our old, 2007 Buick 6 passenger sedan. It's not the latest...but so far everything still works, it looks good, starts up in -30 (it's very cold here in the winter ) ...but I do know it is obviously showing it's age. I resist the 'need' gnawing away at my inside...that I need to get something more stylish. I think I may be falling behind. Hopelessly.

BTW, we also have a 2015 car...newer, etc...but we need two cars, even though one, the Buick, is a very old design...well into it's planned obsolescence state. Kind of like my K10D, which was bought the same year...as our Buick was.
02-09-2019, 04:08 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Maybe. But mirrorless doesn't really play to Pentax's strong points. They haven't been a tech heavy company. They haven't done much with video and the idea of creating a new mount and trying to design a raft of new lenses for it sounds pretty daunting. Beyond which, being the sixth or seventh mirrorless player on the market doesn't bode well, unless you can actually bring something special out that sets you apart.

Even Canon and Nikon have received some negative reviews for their initial mirrorless offerings, I doubt Pentax would do as well. How would an MILC with middling auto focus, poor auto focus tracking, EVF that has some lag and almost no lenses (except adapted ones) do in the market? Seems like it wouldn't do to well. And yet, there is no reason to assume that Pentax could do much better than that.

At the same time, SLRs continue to out sell mirrorless cameras and there is a strong segment of the market that continues to like optical viewfinders for whatever reason. I do think if Pentax can come out with more solid lens offerings, they can continue to do well in that segment of the market.
Consider also that Ricoh is already supporting 2 lens mounts with 3 formats plus the GR, Theta and WG series cameras (Is the Q still supported at all?). The mirrorless mounts are all short registration, so, if Ricoh wants to compete, they will be supporting another mount and another lens line, something I suspect corporate isn't willing to do in a shrinking market. Over on DPR, the Sony fanboys are already getting ready to pick away at Nikon's carcass over their mirrorless cameras.
It's a tough market, but I think ultimately, it's one that Ricoh is better off staying out of.
There was a day when SLRs were the new kid on the block, and I'm sure there were lots of people of the opinion that Leica either had to get with the program or fail. It turned out that their rangefinders continued to do well while their SLRs, as good as they were, got zero traction in the marketplace. In all my years of photography, I have only met one person who used a Leica film SLR.


Last edited by Wheatfield; 02-09-2019 at 04:14 PM.
02-10-2019, 01:09 AM   #143
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Mee thinks…

that the relevant question is "do I need a mirrorless camera?" I don't care about the needs of Ricoh shareholders, let that be their headache.

My own answer to the question is "nope". If your answer is another, you have a lot of alternatives to choose from.

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02-10-2019, 04:04 AM   #144
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When people say that Pentax needs a mirrorless camera they have a specific camera and set of lenses in mind that they think Pentax should emulate. It might be an A7 III or an XT 3 -- cameras with really high frame rates, decent to excellent tracking auto focus, combined with a whole set of f1.2 lenses. Oh, and the whole package would be priced at 800 dollars for APS-C model and 1200 dollars for full frame.

If Pentax could do that and actually make money, it would probably be a big seller, but they can't.

Odds are much better that they would release an MILC that was some sort of cross between a A7r and a K-01. There would be an adapter that would allow (slow) focusing of lenses with in lens motors and screw driven lenses would be manual focus only. And they would produce about two lenses a year, same as for their other mounts. Does anyone honestly think that that sort of camera would sell or that it is needed in today's market?
02-10-2019, 11:26 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Odds are much better that they would release an MILC that was some sort of cross between a A7r and a K-01. There would be an adapter that would allow (slow) focusing of lenses with in lens motors and screw driven lenses would be manual focus only. And they would produce about two lenses a year, same as for their other mounts. Does anyone honestly think that that sort of camera would sell or that it is needed in today's market?
How are you defining '(slow) focusing)'? K-mount lenses should focus no more slowly on a Pentax MILC than they do on a Pentax DSLR in LV mode.

Incidentally, after watching the MILCs created recently by Nikon, Canon, and Sony, seeing how they are shaped and the final resulting size, I see no reason for a Pentax MILC to use any mount other than K-mount.
02-10-2019, 03:30 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
How are you defining '(slow) focusing)'? K-mount lenses should focus no more slowly on a Pentax MILC than they do on a Pentax DSLR in LV mode.

Incidentally, after watching the MILCs created recently by Nikon, Canon, and Sony, seeing how they are shaped and the final resulting size, I see no reason for a Pentax MILC to use any mount other than K-mount.
In my mind, I am picturing Pentax as releasing a camera with a slightly speedier version of the live view present in its current SLRs like the K-1 II. Maybe they would actually do something faster than that, but as far as I could tell when they released the K-01 it was basically with the K30's live view.

Maybe they could use PDAF on the sensor and that would speed things a bit, but to this point, no one, even KP users, have said that live view focusing on Pentax cameras can take the place of normal PDAF focusing through the viewfinder.
02-12-2019, 08:37 AM   #147
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This is some intresting data about the market and how is behaving.. nothing really new.. but it just confirms once again how it moves



---------- Post added 02-12-19 at 10:31 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bilybianca Quote
that the relevant question is "do I need a mirrorless camera?" I don't care about the needs of Ricoh shareholders, let that be their headache.
I think that is true.. in part..

When you invest big money in a camera system you want to ensure that this system have a future.. at this point the K system future could be unknown, and that issue holds back custumers to buy more gear (specially the most expensive) OR to get into the system at all... The question about Ricoh having a mirrorless is not really about having it, its about keeping the company interested in suporting the K mount some how, for casual shooters that might not be important, for pro shooters know that the company where you invest your money $$$$ have a future and a path is very important, so depending the situation is not only the company headache, sadly it's also a client headache.
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02-12-2019, 03:29 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
The question about Ricoh having a mirrorless is not really about having it, its about keeping the company interested in suporting the K mount some how
If Pentax produces a mirrorless with a different mount perhaps they drop k-mount and then where are you with your 'big money' invested? But unless I'm wrong that is not an issue for you I thought you had sold all your Pentax gear? Or am I not correct?

Personally I think the smart play for Ricoh is to plod along adding a bit to the k-mount line as resources allow and make some money. Let the other players fight it out in the mirrorless arena and when the dust settles then decide if there is any future in ILCs at all. It makes no sense to me for them take a huge capital risk in developing yet another mount and camera line to sell into a dying market.

The purpose of Ricoh is to make money for its owners, nothing else. Why take such a risk when that capital invested elsewhere will return a profit with less risk?
02-12-2019, 04:58 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
... It makes no sense to me for them take a huge capital risk in developing yet another mount and camera line to sell into a dying market....
I agree, especially since the guys fighting it out can throw money around and will not be hurt as much as if things don't pan out.
02-12-2019, 05:47 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by blind-bat Quote
I agree, especially since the guys fighting it out can throw money around and will not be hurt as much as if things don't pan out.
I note you said 'as much', Blind-bat.

In another thread it showed the hurt the other companies are going through, no point Ricoh merely copying them.

Olympus *only* sells mirrorless and it's in a lot of trouble. Samsung sold only mirrorless and exited the market.

Sony sold 4.4 million cameras last FY but are predicted to sell only 3.6 million this one - but they've kept the profits up by concentrating on premium products only, jacking up the prices.
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