Ricoh Japan FF Camera Market Survey

Winder · 03-05-2019, 08:31 AM - **1 Like**

It's a good sign that they are asking, but I don't think it a secret what they need to improve. The K-1 is an excellent camera in terms of image quality. The build quality and ergonomics are some of the best in the industry. The D-FA* lenses are excellent. They have to address AF (speed and accuracy). 5fps is more than serviceable for the vast majority of shooters, but they need a buffer and an image processing pipeline that can maintain that speed for more than just a few seconds.

Ricoh also needs to make lenses that matches the capabilities/strengths of their cameras. The K-1 was instantly one of the best architectural and landscape cameras on the market, so why not make a D-FA* 24mm (or 35mm at a minimum) your first lens to release. Make a lens that plays to the strength of the camera. I know the rebadged Tokina zooms were an option, but if I were shooting mostly architecture or landscapes I would want the D-FA* prime.

Eye-AF is really changing things for people who shoot events, portraits, & weddings. Eliminating the focus and recompose steps seems pretty minor until you realize that for a wedding photographer who is taking 1,000 images an event is huge because you just removed 1,000 extra steps. One less step you had to take for each shot. You go from shooting 3 shots for every subject (to make sure you have one that will be in focus) to just shooting one frame because you know the camera nailed focus and you don't have to worry about it and now you have reduced the number of image you have to import and review by 60%. There are technologies that are changing the way people work and Ricoh needs to find a way to implement these technologies in their cameras if they want to appeal to a larger market.

I'm glad they are sending out surveys, but I don't think its a secret what they need to improve upon if they want to grow and attract new users.

angerdan · 03-05-2019, 12:11 PM

Anyone has the questions from Ricoh and can post them (translated to english by google) here?

reh321 · 03-05-2019, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Winder

It's a good sign that they are asking, but I don't think it a secret what they need to improve. The K-1 is an excellent camera in terms of image quality. The build quality and ergonomics are some of the best in the industry. The D-FA* lenses are excellent. They have to address AF (speed and accuracy). 5fps is more than serviceable for the vast majority of shooters, but they need a buffer and an image processing pipeline that can maintain that speed for more than just a few seconds.

Ricoh also needs to make lenses that matches the capabilities/strengths of their cameras. The K-1 was instantly one of the best architectural and landscape cameras on the market, so why not make a D-FA* 24mm (or 35mm at a minimum) your first lens to release. Make a lens that plays to the strength of the camera. I know the rebadged Tokina zooms were an option, but if I were shooting mostly architecture or landscapes I would want the D-FA* prime.

Eye-AF is really changing things for people who shoot events, portraits, & weddings. Eliminating the focus and recompose steps seems pretty minor until you realize that for a wedding photographer who is taking 1,000 images an event is huge because you just removed 1,000 extra steps. One less step you had to take for each shot. You go from shooting 3 shots for every subject (to make sure you have one that will be in focus) to just shooting one frame because you know the camera nailed focus and you don't have to worry about it and now you have reduced the number of image you have to import and review by 60%. There are technologies that are changing the way people work and Ricoh needs to find a way to implement these technologies in their cameras if they want to appeal to a larger market.

I'm glad they are sending out surveys, but I don't think its a secret what they need to improve upon if they want to grow and attract new users.

It is no secret what they need to improve upon if they want to attract new western users - but this is a survey of Japanese users. I keep asking what is of real interest to Japanese users, because they affect the designs that flow down to us. I don't know that we will ever see any results from this, but it would very interesting to find out if their goals, practices, and priorities are the same as ours.

Winder · 03-05-2019, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by reh321

It is no secret what they need to improve upon if they want to attract new western users - but this is a survey of Japanese users. I keep asking what is of real interest to Japanese users, because they affect the designs that flow down to us. I don't know that we will ever see any results from this, but it would very interesting to find out if their goals, practices, and priorities are the same as ours.

Do you think Ricoh is targeting a different Japanese market that Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus,or Panasonic? Canon, Nikon, & Sony are the 3 big players in the Japanese market. Its pretty easy to look at what they are doing and the results they are getting in that market. What is Ricoh doing? Do you think Canon, Nikon, & Sony don't know what Japanese users want? It's pretty obvious what other companies are doing to be successful in the Japanese market. These are publicly traded companies so strengths and weaknesses is not a mystery.

Kunzite · 03-06-2019, 04:15 AM

Ricoh might be targeting different buyers of said Japanese market.

jcdoss · 03-07-2019, 10:37 PM

I'm happy to see Ricoh doing this research while simultaneously showing such reverence to their existing customers, and we on PF are lucky to have JPT keeping us up-to-date with such a great full report. On the other hand, unlike the rest of you, I'm perfectly happy with my K-1 mII units and can't think of much I'd change about them. I think my biggest curiousity for the future is whether or not Ricoh will unleash a mirrorless medium format unit, although I know this survey was only about the K-mount.

JPT, were there any hints about additional support for K/M lenses more than what you already said?

**clackers** · 03-07-2019, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Do you think Canon, Nikon, & Sony don't know what Japanese users want? It's pretty obvious what other companies are doing to be successful in the Japanese market. These are publicly traded companies so strengths and weaknesses is not a mystery.

They are all different, Winder, they've all got different customer bases and objectives. Canon is the market leader, Nikon the aspirant, a number three doesn't usually work in a market without gigantic spending, and Sony are caught there at the moment and have reevaluated. The more niche brands Olympus, Ricoh, Panny, Leica and Fuji will all do their thing but not attempt to be number one or two. With Canon saying the market will drop to fifty percent of current levels it's all about surviving, let alone trying to dethrone Canon.

Despite being publicly traded companies, none of them are required to reveal individual model sales or even overall ones, so guesswork is involved. I think the Sony A9 has probably been an awfully expensive failure as a product, but I don't have the numbers to prove it.

CIPA is the most reliable index and they only give aggregated data with the brand removed.

Last edited by clackers; 03-08-2019 at 01:25 PM.

reh321 · 03-08-2019, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Do you think Ricoh is targeting a different Japanese market that Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus,or Panasonic? Canon, Nikon, & Sony are the 3 big players in the Japanese market. Its pretty easy to look at what they are doing and the results they are getting in that market. What is Ricoh doing? Do you think Canon, Nikon, & Sony don't know what Japanese users want? It's pretty obvious what other companies are doing to be successful in the Japanese market. These are publicly traded companies so strengths and weaknesses is not a mystery.

The comments I was responding to majored on weaknesses as seen by a Westerner, mostly event photography. Most Pentax cameras seem to aimed more at landscape photography, which might imply that Pentax management thinks their Japanese customers are more interested in landscapes, and the purpose of this survey might be to explore that issue.

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03-05-2019, 08:31 AM - 1 Like	#31
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	It's a good sign that they are asking, but I don't think it a secret what they need to improve. The K-1 is an excellent camera in terms of image quality. The build quality and ergonomics are some of the best in the industry. The D-FA* lenses are excellent. They have to address AF (speed and accuracy). 5fps is more than serviceable for the vast majority of shooters, but they need a buffer and an image processing pipeline that can maintain that speed for more than just a few seconds. Ricoh also needs to make lenses that matches the capabilities/strengths of their cameras. The K-1 was instantly one of the best architectural and landscape cameras on the market, so why not make a D-FA* 24mm (or 35mm at a minimum) your first lens to release. Make a lens that plays to the strength of the camera. I know the rebadged Tokina zooms were an option, but if I were shooting mostly architecture or landscapes I would want the D-FA* prime. Eye-AF is really changing things for people who shoot events, portraits, & weddings. Eliminating the focus and recompose steps seems pretty minor until you realize that for a wedding photographer who is taking 1,000 images an event is huge because you just removed 1,000 extra steps. One less step you had to take for each shot. You go from shooting 3 shots for every subject (to make sure you have one that will be in focus) to just shooting one frame because you know the camera nailed focus and you don't have to worry about it and now you have reduced the number of image you have to import and review by 60%. There are technologies that are changing the way people work and Ricoh needs to find a way to implement these technologies in their cameras if they want to appeal to a larger market. I'm glad they are sending out surveys, but I don't think its a secret what they need to improve upon if they want to grow and attract new users.

03-05-2019, 12:11 PM	#32
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Anyone has the questions from Ricoh and can post them (translated to english by google) here?

03-05-2019, 08:28 PM	#33
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,178	Originally posted by Winder It's a good sign that they are asking, but I don't think it a secret what they need to improve. The K-1 is an excellent camera in terms of image quality. The build quality and ergonomics are some of the best in the industry. The D-FA* lenses are excellent. They have to address AF (speed and accuracy). 5fps is more than serviceable for the vast majority of shooters, but they need a buffer and an image processing pipeline that can maintain that speed for more than just a few seconds. Ricoh also needs to make lenses that matches the capabilities/strengths of their cameras. The K-1 was instantly one of the best architectural and landscape cameras on the market, so why not make a D-FA* 24mm (or 35mm at a minimum) your first lens to release. Make a lens that plays to the strength of the camera. I know the rebadged Tokina zooms were an option, but if I were shooting mostly architecture or landscapes I would want the D-FA* prime. Eye-AF is really changing things for people who shoot events, portraits, & weddings. Eliminating the focus and recompose steps seems pretty minor until you realize that for a wedding photographer who is taking 1,000 images an event is huge because you just removed 1,000 extra steps. One less step you had to take for each shot. You go from shooting 3 shots for every subject (to make sure you have one that will be in focus) to just shooting one frame because you know the camera nailed focus and you don't have to worry about it and now you have reduced the number of image you have to import and review by 60%. There are technologies that are changing the way people work and Ricoh needs to find a way to implement these technologies in their cameras if they want to appeal to a larger market. I'm glad they are sending out surveys, but I don't think its a secret what they need to improve upon if they want to grow and attract new users. It is no secret what they need to improve upon if they want to attract new western users - but this is a survey of Japanese users. I keep asking what is of real interest to Japanese users, because they affect the designs that flow down to us. I don't know that we will ever see any results from this, but it would very interesting to find out if their goals, practices, and priorities are the same as ours.

03-05-2019, 09:22 PM	#34
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by reh321 It is no secret what they need to improve upon if they want to attract new western users - but this is a survey of Japanese users. I keep asking what is of real interest to Japanese users, because they affect the designs that flow down to us. I don't know that we will ever see any results from this, but it would very interesting to find out if their goals, practices, and priorities are the same as ours. Do you think Ricoh is targeting a different Japanese market that Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus,or Panasonic? Canon, Nikon, & Sony are the 3 big players in the Japanese market. Its pretty easy to look at what they are doing and the results they are getting in that market. What is Ricoh doing? Do you think Canon, Nikon, & Sony don't know what Japanese users want? It's pretty obvious what other companies are doing to be successful in the Japanese market. These are publicly traded companies so strengths and weaknesses is not a mystery.

03-06-2019, 04:15 AM	#35
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Ricoh might be targeting different buyers of said Japanese market.

03-07-2019, 10:37 PM	#36
jcdoss Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,768	I'm happy to see Ricoh doing this research while simultaneously showing such reverence to their existing customers, and we on PF are lucky to have JPT keeping us up-to-date with such a great full report. On the other hand, unlike the rest of you, I'm perfectly happy with my K-1 mII units and can't think of much I'd change about them. I think my biggest curiousity for the future is whether or not Ricoh will unleash a mirrorless medium format unit, although I know this survey was only about the K-mount. JPT, were there any hints about additional support for K/M lenses more than what you already said?

03-07-2019, 10:49 PM	#37
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Winder Do you think Canon, Nikon, & Sony don't know what Japanese users want? It's pretty obvious what other companies are doing to be successful in the Japanese market. These are publicly traded companies so strengths and weaknesses is not a mystery. They are all different, Winder, they've all got different customer bases and objectives. Canon is the market leader, Nikon the aspirant, a number three doesn't usually work in a market without gigantic spending, and Sony are caught there at the moment and have reevaluated. The more niche brands Olympus, Ricoh, Panny, Leica and Fuji will all do their thing but not attempt to be number one or two. With Canon saying the market will drop to fifty percent of current levels it's all about surviving, let alone trying to dethrone Canon. Despite being publicly traded companies, none of them are required to reveal individual model sales or even overall ones, so guesswork is involved. I think the Sony A9 has probably been an awfully expensive failure as a product, but I don't have the numbers to prove it. CIPA is the most reliable index and they only give aggregated data with the brand removed. Last edited by clackers; 03-08-2019 at 01:25 PM.

03-08-2019, 10:22 AM	#38
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,178	Originally posted by Winder Do you think Ricoh is targeting a different Japanese market that Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus,or Panasonic? Canon, Nikon, & Sony are the 3 big players in the Japanese market. Its pretty easy to look at what they are doing and the results they are getting in that market. What is Ricoh doing? Do you think Canon, Nikon, & Sony don't know what Japanese users want? It's pretty obvious what other companies are doing to be successful in the Japanese market. These are publicly traded companies so strengths and weaknesses is not a mystery. The comments I was responding to majored on weaknesses as seen by a Westerner, mostly event photography. Most Pentax cameras seem to aimed more at landscape photography, which might imply that Pentax management thinks their Japanese customers are more interested in landscapes, and the purpose of this survey might be to explore that issue.