Ricoh Japan FF Camera Market Survey

**jlstrawman** · 01-14-2019, 01:12 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

People just believe what they want to believe, reality has nothing to do with it.

It's amazing how many folks think because they bought a camera, it now makes them experts on how to run a camera company.

Funny how Pentax has never stepped in and hired any of these geniuses and made them Chief Operating Officer.

Exactly correct. +1.

**BROO** · 01-14-2019, 02:12 PM

I remember mention of a survey a few years ago where some of the questions were in regard to a K-3 replacement. One question being along the lines of faster frame rates (up to 18 fps) with a trade off of a bigger body.The KP is targeting the ASP-C users who want the compactness of the format compared to FF. This enables Ricoh to design a larger bodied ASP-C flagship camera that has more processing capabilities, enabling faster frame rates and better AF. Some suggestions are the evolved K3 will have K-1 features. I suspect it will have similar physical size to K-1, third wheel, touch screen (maybe moon lander?), faster frame rate, bigger buffer and improved AF.

But we will all know by late February for sure ...........MAYBE!

MarkJerling · 01-14-2019, 02:53 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The survey for Japan only will be for the Japanese camera model only I suppose. I guess Ricoh will make another survey for the international camera model. Or are they assuming that customer preferences in Japan are the same as in the rest of the world?

I was under the impression we all got the same camera models.

Pentaxis · 01-14-2019, 02:53 PM

Given the opportunity to provide my opinions to Pentax, I would ask for a low specification full-frame SLR. By low specification I mean, no video, simple (or no) auto-focussing (who needs a million focus points?), not necessarily an LCD display on the camera back, no shake-reduction or pixel-fiddling.

These economies might allow the design and inclusion of an optical viewfinder of the quality and performance of that in the Pentax ME Super film camera.

On the topic of optical viewfinder, can anyone explain why the viewing angles on the digital SLRs, including the K-1, are so small?

**jamesk8752** · 01-14-2019, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by angerdan

It would be nice to archive all questions and possible answers/options here.
With that, the thread would be more specific.

For F/FA Lenses an in-camera software focus limiter would be interesting.
And for future cameras an automated AF fine tune setup like Nikons Auto AF Fine-Tuning.
AF Fine-Tune
D850 TIPS - Auto AF Fine-Tuning | Technical Solutions | Nikon Professional Services

I would give my eyeteeth for an effective Auto AF fine tuning system on my next Pentax camera. Ricoh, please take heed!

Regards, Jim

JPT · 01-14-2019, 04:06 PM

Just to answer a few of the points raised.
- More FPS was included as an option for requested features. I don’t think buffer was specifically.
- AF auto-tuning was not as far as I remember, but AF accuracy in general was.
- Regarding Pentaxis’ idea for a camera stripped of electronic conveniences, it was definitely not in the options. I suppose you could have requested it in the text field.
- There were a lot of options in the question about the OVF, so that was covered.

Pentaxis · 01-14-2019, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by JPT

Just to answer a few of the points raised.
- More FPS was included as an option for requested features. I don’t think buffer was specifically.
- AF auto-tuning was not as far as I remember, but AF accuracy in general was.
- Regarding Pentaxis’ idea for a camera stripped of electronic conveniences, it was definitely not in the options. I suppose you could have requested it in the text field.
- There were a lot of options in the question about the OVF, so that was covered.

Thanks for your reply! I know that I am an outlier in wanting a stripped-down version of a full frame SLR. However, I am glad that Pentax are addressing OVF issues.
Thanks again!

**NZ_Ross** · 01-14-2019, 07:54 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jamesk8752

I would give my eyeteeth for an effective Auto AF fine tuning system on my next Pentax camera. Ricoh, please take heed!

Regards, Jim

The question your comment raises Jim, is whether Ricoh would want your eyeteeth?

Are they gold plated? special edition? marking a particular Pentax design anniversary?

Just questions that will help us to make the sales pitch to Ricoh regarding these teeth (we like to be helpful like this down here in New Zealand)

I am looking forward to your answers

Cheers

Ross

**jamesk8752** · 01-14-2019, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by NZ_Ross

The question your comment raises Jim, is whether Ricoh would want your eyeteeth?

Are they gold plated? special edition? marking a particular Pentax design anniversary?

Just questions that will help us to make the sales pitch to Ricoh regarding these teeth (we like to be helpful like this down here in New Zealand)

I am looking forward to your answers

Cheers

Ross

On second thought, Ricoh would probably not want my eyeteeth - they are too old and worn from gnashing them in frustration when I can't get one of my DSLR lenses to autofocus consistently. Oh well, there is always mirrorless...

Regards, Jim

**NZ_Ross** · 01-14-2019, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by jamesk8752

On second thought, Ricoh would probably not want my eyeteeth - they are too old and worn from gnashing them in frustration when I can't get one of my DSLR lenses to autofocus consistently. Oh well, there is always mirrorless...

Regards, Jim

Excellent, thank you Jim, a very good reply

According to the survey information JPT supplied in this thread, Ricoh are clearly thinking about a mirrorless camera at some stage. Given that you use Pentax DSLR's with the intention of autofocusing we already know you are a patient man. This will be a great asset to you as you wait for the Pentax mirrorless camera...

Regards,

Ross

The Squirrel Mafia · 01-15-2019, 07:51 AM

Very exciting!

angerdan · 01-15-2019, 09:18 AM

Anyone has the questions from Ricoh and can post them (translated to english by google) here?

xmeda · 01-16-2019, 12:46 PM - **2 Likes**

K1 was released in 2016 after painful costly development, it was finished last year as K1II. That is not going to be replaced for next 3-4 years or so. Maybe never. With their limited resources... ehm.

K3/K3II replacement physical development maybe started last year. Maybe. I lost any trust to those smiley Ricoh marketing guys. What we know for sure KP development ended by 2017. So they maybe prepared some rough plans that year and last year they moved to early development stages (see below)

When Pentax used to be productive (2006-2010) it took them 2 years to introduce new advanced camera model and they usually reused many modules from previous body. Keep in mind that they started new thing even before previous model was released.

There is very little chance to relase new camera this year. Only if they reuse many components from K3 and KP and release some KPII with slight updates. But that would unfortunately result in camera with specs behind latest competitors. And that would be very problematic, because such camera with current tempo has to survive at least 4 years on rapidly evolving competitve market.

Development starts with marketing who collects voice of customer, then collected data is processed, design team proposes some ideas to marketing. Marketing defines product specification for desired camera and then somebody has to decide about funding. When funding is available research&development stage starts. Now we passed year or more.

Then they has to prepare concept, check it again with marketing and finances, then they have to do drawings, 3d models, board layout, start with firmware, assemble some early prototypes (2nd year passed).

Next they have prepare mechanical toolings, final board layout, some qualification samples that are almost as final camera and test them while firmware and details are still being finished. (3rd year passed)

And then they have some final qualification samples and they start heavy testing. If no serious issues are detected, then they have to prepare manufacturing line, toolings, assembly instructions etc etc.. and start production (4th year passed).
+ add some time for CE, UL and other agency testings.

Maybe somebody think that they just develop and put camera into production within a year.. but that simply is unreal.
As a process engineer working on significantly simpler electromechanical assemblies I have some insight into R&D processes. And yes, it takes a lot of time. And they do not have 400 design guys working on one product like maybe Sony can afford... they have tens of guys working on several different projects (lens A, lens B, camera A, camera B, compact camera, mobile app etc...)

Pentaxis · 01-16-2019, 02:00 PM

xmeda:
Yes, I can believe that the realities of product development are as you describe. It seems to me that the market research is of absolutely paramount importance. Given Pentax's limited resources, the company may be better advised to concentrate on the value side of market. I read repeatedly online how Pentax cameras provide the greatest value available.

Kingman · 02-28-2019, 10:28 PM

Here is another pipe dream of getting back to Pentax roots of a small compact lightweight body...how about a stripped down basic & lighter weight FF body. This could be an entry model for Pentax FF wannabees. OK, I understand, we want a cropped sensor K3ii successor now, a K1 MkIII roadmap soon and this now means I can't have my smaller light weight Pentax FF body or perhaps a K-mount compatible full featured mirror less body?

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01-14-2019, 01:12 PM - 2 Likes	#16
jlstrawman Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Midwest US Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,058	Originally posted by normhead People just believe what they want to believe, reality has nothing to do with it. It's amazing how many folks think because they bought a camera, it now makes them experts on how to run a camera company. Funny how Pentax has never stepped in and hired any of these geniuses and made them Chief Operating Officer. Exactly correct. +1.

01-14-2019, 02:12 PM	#17
BROO Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 656	I remember mention of a survey a few years ago where some of the questions were in regard to a K-3 replacement. One question being along the lines of faster frame rates (up to 18 fps) with a trade off of a bigger body.The KP is targeting the ASP-C users who want the compactness of the format compared to FF. This enables Ricoh to design a larger bodied ASP-C flagship camera that has more processing capabilities, enabling faster frame rates and better AF. Some suggestions are the evolved K3 will have K-1 features. I suspect it will have similar physical size to K-1, third wheel, touch screen (maybe moon lander?), faster frame rate, bigger buffer and improved AF. But we will all know by late February for sure ...........MAYBE!

01-14-2019, 02:53 PM - 1 Like	#18
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	Originally posted by biz-engineer The survey for Japan only will be for the Japanese camera model only I suppose. I guess Ricoh will make another survey for the international camera model. Or are they assuming that customer preferences in Japan are the same as in the rest of the world? I was under the impression we all got the same camera models.

01-14-2019, 02:53 PM	#19
Pentaxis Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 195	Given the opportunity to provide my opinions to Pentax, I would ask for a low specification full-frame SLR. By low specification I mean, no video, simple (or no) auto-focussing (who needs a million focus points?), not necessarily an LCD display on the camera back, no shake-reduction or pixel-fiddling. These economies might allow the design and inclusion of an optical viewfinder of the quality and performance of that in the Pentax ME Super film camera. On the topic of optical viewfinder, can anyone explain why the viewing angles on the digital SLRs, including the K-1, are so small?

01-14-2019, 03:01 PM	#20
jamesk8752 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Suburban Detroit, MI, USA Posts: 238	Originally posted by angerdan It would be nice to archive all questions and possible answers/options here. With that, the thread would be more specific. For F/FA Lenses an in-camera software focus limiter would be interesting. And for future cameras an automated AF fine tune setup like Nikons Auto AF Fine-Tuning. AF Fine-Tune D850 TIPS - Auto AF Fine-Tuning \| Technical Solutions \| Nikon Professional Services I would give my eyeteeth for an effective Auto AF fine tuning system on my next Pentax camera. Ricoh, please take heed! Regards, Jim

01-14-2019, 04:06 PM	#21
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821 Original Poster	Just to answer a few of the points raised. - More FPS was included as an option for requested features. I don’t think buffer was specifically. - AF auto-tuning was not as far as I remember, but AF accuracy in general was. - Regarding Pentaxis’ idea for a camera stripped of electronic conveniences, it was definitely not in the options. I suppose you could have requested it in the text field. - There were a lot of options in the question about the OVF, so that was covered.

01-14-2019, 05:50 PM	#22
Pentaxis Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 195	Originally posted by JPT Just to answer a few of the points raised. - More FPS was included as an option for requested features. I don’t think buffer was specifically. - AF auto-tuning was not as far as I remember, but AF accuracy in general was. - Regarding Pentaxis’ idea for a camera stripped of electronic conveniences, it was definitely not in the options. I suppose you could have requested it in the text field. - There were a lot of options in the question about the OVF, so that was covered. Thanks for your reply! I know that I am an outlier in wanting a stripped-down version of a full frame SLR. However, I am glad that Pentax are addressing OVF issues. Thanks again!

01-14-2019, 07:54 PM - 1 Like	#23
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by jamesk8752 I would give my eyeteeth for an effective Auto AF fine tuning system on my next Pentax camera. Ricoh, please take heed! Regards, Jim The question your comment raises Jim, is whether Ricoh would want your eyeteeth? Are they gold plated? special edition? marking a particular Pentax design anniversary? Just questions that will help us to make the sales pitch to Ricoh regarding these teeth (we like to be helpful like this down here in New Zealand) I am looking forward to your answers Cheers Ross

01-14-2019, 09:52 PM	#24
jamesk8752 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Suburban Detroit, MI, USA Posts: 238	Originally posted by NZ_Ross The question your comment raises Jim, is whether Ricoh would want your eyeteeth? Are they gold plated? special edition? marking a particular Pentax design anniversary? Just questions that will help us to make the sales pitch to Ricoh regarding these teeth (we like to be helpful like this down here in New Zealand) I am looking forward to your answers Cheers Ross On second thought, Ricoh would probably not want my eyeteeth - they are too old and worn from gnashing them in frustration when I can't get one of my DSLR lenses to autofocus consistently. Oh well, there is always mirrorless... Regards, Jim

01-14-2019, 11:11 PM	#25
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by jamesk8752 On second thought, Ricoh would probably not want my eyeteeth - they are too old and worn from gnashing them in frustration when I can't get one of my DSLR lenses to autofocus consistently. Oh well, there is always mirrorless... Regards, Jim Excellent, thank you Jim, a very good reply According to the survey information JPT supplied in this thread, Ricoh are clearly thinking about a mirrorless camera at some stage. Given that you use Pentax DSLR's with the intention of autofocusing we already know you are a patient man. This will be a great asset to you as you wait for the Pentax mirrorless camera... Regards, Ross

01-15-2019, 07:51 AM	#26
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,056	Very exciting!

01-15-2019, 09:18 AM	#27
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,642	Anyone has the questions from Ricoh and can post them (translated to english by google) here?

01-16-2019, 12:46 PM - 2 Likes	#28
xmeda Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brno Posts: 295	K1 was released in 2016 after painful costly development, it was finished last year as K1II. That is not going to be replaced for next 3-4 years or so. Maybe never. With their limited resources... ehm. K3/K3II replacement physical development maybe started last year. Maybe. I lost any trust to those smiley Ricoh marketing guys. What we know for sure KP development ended by 2017. So they maybe prepared some rough plans that year and last year they moved to early development stages (see below) When Pentax used to be productive (2006-2010) it took them 2 years to introduce new advanced camera model and they usually reused many modules from previous body. Keep in mind that they started new thing even before previous model was released. There is very little chance to relase new camera this year. Only if they reuse many components from K3 and KP and release some KPII with slight updates. But that would unfortunately result in camera with specs behind latest competitors. And that would be very problematic, because such camera with current tempo has to survive at least 4 years on rapidly evolving competitve market. Development starts with marketing who collects voice of customer, then collected data is processed, design team proposes some ideas to marketing. Marketing defines product specification for desired camera and then somebody has to decide about funding. When funding is available research&development stage starts. Now we passed year or more. Then they has to prepare concept, check it again with marketing and finances, then they have to do drawings, 3d models, board layout, start with firmware, assemble some early prototypes (2nd year passed). Next they have prepare mechanical toolings, final board layout, some qualification samples that are almost as final camera and test them while firmware and details are still being finished. (3rd year passed) And then they have some final qualification samples and they start heavy testing. If no serious issues are detected, then they have to prepare manufacturing line, toolings, assembly instructions etc etc.. and start production (4th year passed). + add some time for CE, UL and other agency testings. Maybe somebody think that they just develop and put camera into production within a year.. but that simply is unreal. As a process engineer working on significantly simpler electromechanical assemblies I have some insight into R&D processes. And yes, it takes a lot of time. And they do not have 400 design guys working on one product like maybe Sony can afford... they have tens of guys working on several different projects (lens A, lens B, camera A, camera B, compact camera, mobile app etc...)

01-16-2019, 02:00 PM	#29
Pentaxis Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 195	xmeda: Yes, I can believe that the realities of product development are as you describe. It seems to me that the market research is of absolutely paramount importance. Given Pentax's limited resources, the company may be better advised to concentrate on the value side of market. I read repeatedly online how Pentax cameras provide the greatest value available.

02-28-2019, 10:28 PM	#30
Kingman Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: North Texas Posts: 199	Here is another pipe dream of getting back to Pentax roots of a small compact lightweight body...how about a stripped down basic & lighter weight FF body. This could be an entry model for Pentax FF wannabees. OK, I understand, we want a cropped sensor K3ii successor now, a K1 MkIII roadmap soon and this now means I can't have my smaller light weight Pentax FF body or perhaps a K-mount compatible full featured mirror less body?