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5 Days Ago - 22 Likes   #1
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Ricoh Japan FF Camera Market Survey

This weekend I received a link to participate in a survey from Ricoh Imaging Japan. I got this because I知 on their mailing list as an online store customer. I知 posting this here because it was basically asking directly what I want/expect from a future full frame K-mount camera. Lenses and APS-C were not the focus, but I do think they dropped a big hint about APS-C, as you値l see below.

It was quite a lengthy survey, so I知 not going to attempt to translate all the questions, but I値l explain the main thrust.

There were questions about why you did or didn稚 buy the K-1 II. This included things like concerns about the features an image quality of the K-1 II, as well as answer options like 的知 waiting for the K-3 Evolved model and 的知 waiting for full frame mirrorless. They had 斗imited range of lenses in there as a reason.

There were a few similar questions about whether you used the K-1 upgrade program and why.

They had a question about whether you also use a mirrorless system, and a follow up question about how you divide your use of the systems.

The most interesting part was directly asking for requests for future full frame model features. The first question gave a very long list of options, covering basically every feature request you hear on these forums. In my case, I selected smaller, lighter, better AF, better video AF, video stabilization and some others. I think there were about 30 choices there.

In addition to that, three specific areas were singled out for separate, more specific questions.
- Viewfinder: improved eye relief, diopter adjustment, brightness, size, brightness adjustment, info displays, and so on
- AF: about 10 options covering accuracy, speed, coverage, density and operability for both still and continuous shooting
- Legacy lens support: this was really interesting. They had four free entry fields by series asking for ideas for what in body support you would want for FA/F series lenses, A series lenses, M/K series lenses and Takumars.

Finally they had a space to enter your general thoughts about K-mount.

I知 no market research expert, but I thought it was a very comprehensive and well done survey. For once, I felt I was able to say everything I wanted about the subject (FF K-mount). It痴 good to know that when Ricoh say they are listening to customers, they do have mechanisms to do so.

I also thought the timing was interesting, as it seems that this 適-3 II Evolved camera is real and the features are fixed by now. The new FF frame camera meanwhile is on the drawing board, and they are gathering user opinions.

I imagine a lot of people reading this would want to fill out this survey. I知 afraid it is Japan only for now. However, when they did this kind of survey before for lenses, it did happen overseas after a few months. Let痴 hope it happens this time too.


Last edited by JPT; 5 Days Ago at 12:01 AM.
5 Days Ago - 2 Likes   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
This weekend I received a link to participate in a survey from Ricoh Imaging Japan. I got this because I’m on their mailing list as an online store customer. I’m posting this here because it was basically asking directly what I want/expect from a future full frame K-mount camera. Lenses and APS-C were not the focus, but I do think they dropped a big hint about APS-C, as you’ll see below.
Thank you again for taking the time to share this information. This is really helpful to me personally, and good to know that Ricoh are doing this research.

Ross
5 Days Ago - 2 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
This is really helpful to me personally, and good to know that Ricoh are doing this research.

Ross
Yes, for me too, even though it could mean we won't see a K-1 II /K-3 II successor this year. Thanks a lot for sharing!
5 Days Ago   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
There were questions about why you did or didn’t buy the K-1 II. This included things like concerns about the features an image quality of the K-1 II, as well as answer options like “I’m waiting for the K-3 Evolved model” and “I’m waiting for full frame mirrorless”. They had “limited range of lenses” in there as a reason.
Thanks for your information and its good to know Ricoh is doing this kind of survey, hope this means they will communicate more with their customer.

5 Days Ago   #5
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There were a number of surveys already, but I found that the products released by Ricoh never matched what the customers said they wanted in the surveys. K mount camera often came with things that customer never asked for, and sometimes it was positively received, sometimes not. Pentax marketing surveys remember me my old grand father, he would ask people's advice but only retain the advice that matched his own first opinion, so asking as basically a waste of time.

What I'm sure isn't in the survey is: add RGB AE sensor info that signals high-light clipping and black clipping in the OVF, that's a simple thing to add, among many other thing that Pentax software could do but doesn't do.

The survey for Japan only will be for the Japanese camera model only I suppose. I guess Ricoh will make another survey for the international camera model. Or are they assuming that customer preferences in Japan are the same as in the rest of the world?

Last edited by biz-engineer; 5 Days Ago at 12:49 AM.
5 Days Ago   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by rullrich Quote
Yes, for me too, even though it could mean we won't see a K-1 II /K-3 II successor this year. Thanks a lot for sharing!
I read it more positively than that. The K-3II successor has been mentioned several times by Ricoh people in recent months. This is the first time I致e seen a specific future product mentioned in a survey like this. It wasn稚 really necessary for them to say that, but they did. So it makes me think it is close to release.

In the case of the the K-1 II however, I think it means a successor is further off. But depending on the answers, the logical outcome might be to add a model, rather than just a straight replacement. Certainly the answers I gave were that I would need a lighter camera to get me interested in FF, so I don稚 think it would qualify as a K-1 III.

I also got the impression is really considering whether and how to do more upgrade services in the future.

It痴 all assumption really, but at least we can see Ricoh is planning things in a rational way and listening to customers.
5 Days Ago   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
There were a number of surveys already, but I found that the products released by Ricoh never matched what the customers said they wanted in the surveys. K mount camera often came with things that customer never asked for, and sometimes it was positively received, sometimes not. Pentax marketing surveys remember me my old grand father, he would ask people's advice but only retain the advice that matched his own first opinion, so asking as basically a waste of time.
there may be some truth in that, but isn't it also true that even those of us with the greatest understanding of these matters (and I freely acknowledge that you're a lot higher up that league table than I am) don't really know what linkages and what mutual exclusivities ultimately determine camera design options - and surveys seldom give really clear cut preferences as differenet people have different requirements.

Having said which, I'd definitely press them to accelerate work on the AF and video - not because for my purposes the AF is inadequate, and the onlytime I've shot video on the K-1 as an accident, but because lazy reviewers would have to find something else to criticize.

I think that I would like a touch screen, if intelligently implemented, for chosing the centre of enlargement, for chosing off-centre focusing points, and for enlarging images while reviewing - but I can live without it.

Last edited by ffking; 5 Days Ago at 04:08 AM.
5 Days Ago   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
I think that I would like a touch screen, if intelligently implemented, for chosing the centre of enlargement, for chosing off-centre focusing points, and for enlarging images while reviewing - but I can live without it.
Touch screen was on the features list for the future FF camera. Better AF selection was on the AF feature list. For what it痴 worth, I selected both of them. I do think the touch screen is likely in future cameras, since it痴 a confirmed feature of the GR III.

5 Days Ago   #9
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Thank you, JPT.
Once again, despite all the doom and gloom - and the slow past two years - Pentax is planning for the future.

My preference would be for a "K-1" with performance added: frames per second (7 would do), buffer/card write speed (double it?), but most important, AF in all its aspects: accuracy, speed, coverage&number of points). Next, the best optical viewfinder they could put on it. I wear glasses, so eyepoint is important.
Size and weight... we can't have everything, right?
And switch to USB-C - which can double as a power adapter.
5 Days Ago - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
There were a number of surveys already, but I found that the products released by Ricoh never matched what the customers said they wanted in the surveys.
I did not realize Ricoh released the results of their previous customer surveys...
5 Days Ago   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by rangercarp Quote
I did not realize Ricoh released the results of their previous customer surveys...
They sort of did:
QuoteQuote:
We wondered what users were expecting from the PENTAX K-1; we concluded that they demanded the high image quality made possible only by a 35mm full-frame image sensor its exceptional resolving power, truthful expression of gradations and outstanding imaging performance in the high sensitivity range. Our survey of actual PENTAX K-1 users backed up this assumption.

Based on this finding, we began development of three large-aperture zoom lenses ultra-wide angle, standard and telephoto models to form the core of our high-resolution, full-size imaging system. Our next step was to consider the development of large-aperture single-focus lenses, which would provide even better image quality and imaging power. At first, we wanted to provide full-frame single-focus lenses with angles of view that were different from those provided by existing models, and even initiated a project in this direction. These included an 85mm F1.4 lens, which was listed on our lens roadmap. After conducting research on the types of lenses our users desired, however, the most sought-after model was a 50mm lens a standard single-focus lens familiar to all users since the days of film photography. There were several other options, but since this was what users most wanted, there was no reason to ignore the demand. So priority was placed on the development of the HD PENTAX-D FA★50mmF1.4 SDM AW.
Development Story | HD PENTAX-D FA?50mm F1.4 SDM AW | PENTAX STAR LENS | RICOH IMAGING

But people can't quite accept that
5 Days Ago - 5 Likes   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
People just believe what they want to believe, reality has nothing to do with it.

It's amazing how many folks think because they bought a camera, it now makes them experts on how to run a camera company.

Funny how Pentax has never stepped in and hired any of these geniuses and made them Chief Operating Officer.
5 Days Ago - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rangercarp Quote
I did not realize Ricoh released the results of their previous customer surveys...
Isn稚 that the products at the end of the day?
Customer feedback + engineering capabilities + business case = stuff

-Eric
5 Days Ago   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
Isn稚 that the products at the end of the day?
Customer feedback + engineering capabilities + business case = stuff

-Eric
It's easier to sit back and imagine that all the people at Pentax are a bunch of dummies who can't see the obvious improvements you are suggesting. Pentax is not the company for those without patience.
5 Days Ago - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I imagine a lot of people reading this would want to fill out this survey.
It would be nice to archive all questions and possible answers/options here.
With that, the thread would be more specific.

For F/FA Lenses an in-camera software focus limiter would be interesting.
And for future cameras an automated AF fine tune setup like Nikons Auto AF Fine-Tuning.
AF Fine-Tune
D850 TIPS - Auto AF Fine-Tuning | Technical Solutions | Nikon Professional Services

Last edited by angerdan; 5 Days Ago at 01:22 PM.
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