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View Poll Results: Why did you go full frame?(Multiple choice)
l need better high ISO performance 3328.95%
l need more shallow DOF 1714.91%
lt's the latest photography trend 32.63%
Everybody's doing it 21.75%
Other 8776.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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03-06-2020, 03:14 AM   #136
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I went full frame because I had waited years for it and already had all my FF lenses from the film era .

03-06-2020, 03:30 AM   #137
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I thought the K5 was really good for the time, but it definitely has been superseded by subsequent cameras with regard to much of the tech in it.

(I too did not have any of the issues with sensors stains or lens release button falling off or anything else for that matter).
03-06-2020, 06:38 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I thought the K5 was really good for the time, but it definitely has been superseded by subsequent cameras with regard to much of the tech in it.

(I too did not have any of the issues with sensors stains or lens release button falling off or anything else for that matter).
There's probably some selection bias in the forum. Many or most people who had Wheatfield's experience with the K-5 would have thrown it overboard and are now shooting Canikon, Sony, Fuji, etc. Those who are still here didn't have (m)any problems. So the reported failure rate among current posters could be less than that of the overall population of cameras.
03-06-2020, 06:53 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
There's probably some selection bias in the forum. Many or most people who had Wheatfield's experience with the K-5 would have thrown it overboard and are now shooting Canikon, Sony, Fuji, etc. Those who are still here didn't have (m)any problems. So the reported failure rate among current posters could be less than that of the overall population of cameras.
On other websites I've read experiences of many others who had similar problems with their systems and switched brands. It's not just a Pentax thing..... the one's who switch are almost certainly outnumbered by new users switching in. In the overall scheme of things it's a moot point.

I'm not sure why people are so quick to think this is solely a Pentax issue.


Last edited by normhead; 03-06-2020 at 07:02 AM.
03-06-2020, 08:07 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm not sure why people are so quick to think this is solely a Pentax issue.
Unfortunately , ILC cameras are electro mechanical design , the failure rate is higher than electronic PCB or pure mechanical , simply because electronics and mechanical stress don't go well together.
I've seen two Canon failing in front of my eye when the user was about to take a picture. One was the Canon lens AF motor burned, and the other one was the side flip screen stopped working.
The difference between Canon and Pentax, is you bring your failing Canon camera lens to where you bought it and Canon give a new one, trash the old one behind the counter, because Canon make cameras by the million like Barilla make pasta, Pentax just can't do that. You don't hear much about Canon failure because there is a strong service behind the many cameras and lenses that fail. You get the same with Nikon, it just that you won't read this in DPReview, but you'll eventually see those camera fail in the field. Online comments are really miss-leading, I wanted to buy a GFX50R, due to all the nice reviews etc, until I saw how the firmware hangs all the time and AF misses focus 100 times more than my K1. The actual state of camera is totally buried under tons of content marketing, so it's very hard to figure things out unless you rent the camera and try for yourself, when I try, I can see often that things are not like they are advertised online.
03-06-2020, 08:16 AM - 1 Like   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Unfortunately , ILC cameras are electro mechanical design , the failure rate is higher than electronic PCB or pure mechanical , simply because electronics and mechanical stress don't go well together.
I've seen two Canon failing in front of my eye when the user was about to take a picture. One was the Canon lens AF motor burned, and the other one was the side flip screen stopped working.
The difference between Canon and Pentax, is you bring your failing Canon camera lens to where you bought it and Canon give a new one, trash the old one behind the counter, because Canon make cameras by the million like Barilla make pasta, Pentax just can't do that. You don't hear much about Canon failure because there is a strong service behind the many cameras and lenses that fail. You get the same with Nikon, it just that you won't read this in DPReview, but you'll eventually see those camera fail in the field. Online comments are really miss-leading, I wanted to buy a GFX50R, due to all the nice reviews etc, until I saw how the firmware hangs all the time and AF misses focus 100 times more than my K1. The actual state of camera is totally buried under tons of content marketing, so it's very hard to figure things out unless you rent the camera and try for yourself, when I try, I can see often that things are not like they are advertised online.
When you're paying me thousands for a canoe trip into wilderness, having a repair depot where you can exchange your camera in Toronto does you no good whatsoever. Your money, often more than the cost of the camera, is wasted.
03-06-2020, 08:30 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Pentax has never made a camera before that had as many flaws as the K5. I'm not sure if anyone has.
Mine missed the sensor spots and bad switches and buttons, but the AF was useless in all but ideal light. Others had good AF, but sensor spots, some would shed their buttons, others had control wheels that would fail. Some, I expect, had a combination of them all.
And obviously, just like the Edsel, Corvair and anything by British Leyland, some were just fine.

I wanted to like the K5, but for the type of photography I was doing at the time it was a horrible camera.
I expect that the people who had to use a sharpie to change lenses or were forced into PHD automatic by failed control wheels felt the same way about it.

Go look at the K5 sub forum. Starting about 6 pages from the last, the discussions start to get very interesting. You will even read posts from Wheatfield waving Pom Poms about the camera. It took a couple of studio shoots to find out how bad my camera was.
Oh, I do recall the various issues with the K-5, some of which were apparently rectified further along in the production cycle - which I realize does not help those who were victimized early on.

I've also had disappointments with Pentax QC, such as having to go through 3 copies of the DA21 in order to get a good one.

When there is a product that has a spotty history, I try to take into account that product's history when making a determination if it is "good" or not... and often many items are good, but with caveats.
03-06-2020, 08:35 AM - 1 Like   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
On other websites I've read experiences of many others who had similar problems with their systems and switched brands. It's not just a Pentax thing..... the one's who switch are almost certainly outnumbered by new users switching in. In the overall scheme of things it's a moot point.

I'm not sure why people are so quick to think this is solely a Pentax issue.
Because people are emotional and not good at critical thinking?

03-06-2020, 12:37 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
On other websites I've read experiences of many others who had similar problems with their systems and switched brands. It's not just a Pentax thing..... the one's who switch are almost certainly outnumbered by new users switching in. In the overall scheme of things it's a moot point.

I'm not sure why people are so quick to think this is solely a Pentax issue.
I don't think anyone ever suggested it was.

---------- Post added 03-06-20 at 02:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When you're paying me thousands for a canoe trip into wilderness, having a repair depot where you can exchange your camera in Toronto does you no good whatsoever. Your money, often more than the cost of the camera, is wasted.
That's absolutely true.

But it's also true that having one Pentax repair facility in the United States is a worse situation than having many. I was lucky that I wasn't on an epic vacation when my K-30 failed, but it still took three months and multiple shipments halfway across the country to get it fixed.
03-06-2020, 03:35 PM - 2 Likes   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I don't think anyone ever suggested it was.

---------- Post added 03-06-20 at 02:44 PM ----------



That's absolutely true.

But it's also true that having one Pentax repair facility in the United States is a worse situation than having many. I was lucky that I wasn't on an epic vacation when my K-30 failed, but it still took three months and multiple shipments halfway across the country to get it fixed.
At least you were able to get your K-30 fixed. The AF issues on the K5, if you had them, were not repairable. Pentax issued multiple firmware updates that were supposed to fix it, none succeeded especially well. I believe it was the same situation with the lens release button. It was a simple design failure. I believe the control dials were able to be fixed.
Every manufacturer has has the occasional burp, Nikon had a camera that sprayed oil on the sensor IIRC, for example, but the number of reported issues with the K5 was pretty unprecedented.
I think even the worst Petri was better in that regard.
To me, the K5II was the camera the K5 should have been, but it was built after Ricoh took over and put a few adults in the room.
03-08-2020, 01:16 AM - 1 Like   #146
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I ordered one of the first K-1 from my longstanding dealer in Germany and never had to regret it. The camera itself is -- as most of the new lenses -- heavy and bulky, but the results are absolutely satisfying.

In the past I owned many of the Pentax DSLRs starting with the *ist DS, K20D, K-5, K-5 II, K-5 IIs and two K-3 -- none of them offered the uncomplicated usability of the K-1. They were smaller, lighter, in case of the K-3 a bit faster and in a few aspects more modern.

But the K-1 is a true work horse. AF.S is not the fastest, but works very precise and reliable in any lighting situations where my APS-C systems struggled, typically at high contrast backlit scenes, people against windows etc. The high resolution is for sure no disadvantage, the high ISO performance (really good usable to 3.200, getting poor at 6.400) is welcome and the tilting display sometimes very helpful. Last but not least the SR system is working very well and the diopter adjustment of the view finder matches perfectly to my myopia (-3 dpt).

I don't like to remember to the heavy picture noise of the K20D at base ISO (nearly unusable at ISO 800), the chronic defocus problems in incandescent tungsten light on the whole series and the pearl strings at the early models of the K-5 and many, many failed pictures under demanding lighting situations still with the K-3. With the K-1 all these critical weaknesses are practically gone.

And the best at the end: most lenses perform uncomplicated because of the moderate pixel density of the sensor. The new D-FA lenses matches perfectly to the K-1, showing high contrast and mostly stunning performance. One has ever used the D-FA* 50/1.4 will never ask "why K-1?" Same with the D-FA* 70-200/2.8. In general, all modern D-FA lenses are very successful. Even the cheap D-FA 28-105 shows good build quality and takes decent pictures, bread-and-butter lenses like the D-FA 24-70/2.8 have no major flawness.

All this sounds very technical and yes, it is.


From the "artistic aspect" FF enables another look of your pictures. A shallow depth of field is quite more simple to create and even with older middle class lenses like the old FA 50/1.4 you are able to make nearly perfect pictures at f/2.8 with lots of bokeh. At APS-C you would have to use the FA 35/2 AL at f/2 to create a similar blur, but the lens isn't performing impressive at this aperture.

With the new D-FA* 50/1.4 the whole aperture range performs surprisingly good, so one can create incredible effects on near distances and visible object isolation on far (a 2-stop ND filter is very helpful in bright sun).


And there is a monetary aspect, too.

As a professional photographer with some employees we use four camera bodies at the studios as on location. The nice price of the K-1 was very welcome. A Nikon D850 costs twice as much as a K-1 and most of the pictures looks exactly identical. No question: the D850 is more powerful in many aspects, but these are mostly no important criterions for me. Side effect: If you own more than one camera body no one needs expensive express repairs nor an insurance for the relatively cheap body.


The K-1 has some weaknesses too.

The internal buffer is too small and SD card interface is very, very slow and uses the memory cards one after the other. The USB 2.0 interface is just speedy enough for camera tethering in the advertising photography but hopeless slow at people shootings. The tilting mechanism of the display is something different and robust, but lacks some mobility in other than few directions. The Android tethering sofware is for the scrap, very poor. A proximity sensor at the vew finder for deactivating the rear LCD would be comfortable in dark lighting situations.

For sure, the system is quite heavy und big. This is the dark side of FF -- and Pentax' approach is one of the heaviest und biggest. So the FF way isn't the best for everyone and maybe sometime I will buy the successor of the K-3 II too, if it is significantly smaller, lighter and well made.

If you are working intensively with a camera system the compatibility of the controls is essential. So only a system with more or the less the same user interface is welcome.

Otherway I will stick at my last remaining APS-C camera K-5 IIs for hiking, which is very handy and robust.


And we are eagerly awaiting the new D-FA 85/1.4, hoping it's as good as the new D-FA 50/1.4!

Last edited by Austro-Diesel; 03-08-2020 at 02:14 AM.
03-08-2020, 07:14 AM   #147
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Thank you, Austro-Diesel, for your stimulating observations on the K-1. It is always helpful to hear from a professional with lots of experience. Your thoughts are close to what this very amateur photographer has observed over the years.
03-25-2020, 01:11 PM - 1 Like   #148
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I resisted the lure of the K-1 for several years. I toyed with picking one up in 2017, but it was still too expensive. In 2018 I was able to acquire a used K-1 with about 250 shutter actuations for a little over $1,300, which was a good price at the time. Probably my chief reason for acquiring the camera is would provide ample excuse for buying more lenses. I'm not someone interested in collecting scores of 50mm lenses or other cheap vintage optics that I don't really need. So a new platform allows me an opportunity to buy more lenses that I'll actually use. For the K-1, I have purchased the DFA 28-105, the F 17-28, the FA-J 75-300, the DFA 15-30, and the FA 43. One issue with FF is that good lenses are rather pricey. I'd love to replace that cheap and optically challenged FA-J lens with the DFA 70-210, but costs are prohibitive. I've been selling off lenses so I can afford the FA 31, but with this virus pandemic raging through the whole world, that's been put on hold.


An additional and more respectable reason for getting the K-1 was for greater resolution. I sell the occasional print online (through pixels.com), and the most lucrative sales are large prints. The largest print I've sold from a single APS-C image is 36 inches. The largest print I've sold from the a single image on the K-1 is 50 inches. That's not a huge difference, but it's something.
03-26-2020, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #149
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I've not bought a ff for three reasons: 1) I don't consider myself to be a very good photographer, 2) I can't afford one and 3) my K-5iis serves my needs, plus I have a low count K-3 sitting in reserve. I have an eclectic collection of old, ff lenses. These include the following:

Pentax
K 30.2,8
K 50/1.2
M 50/1.7
K 55/1.2
M 100/2.8
K 200/2.5
A* 300/4
M 35-70/2.8-3.5
Sigma
70/2.8 macro
135/2.8 Pantel
Lester Dine
105.2.8 macro
Vivitar
Series 1 90-180/4.5 flat field macro zoom

I only have two crop lenses, the DA 40/2.8 and DA 20-40/2.8-3.5, so my lens collection would obviously be targeted to ff but . . . . . . . As a hobbyist, I don't print or sell images. I enjoy shooting flowers, nature and wildlife so my lenses cover my needs, just as my cameras cover my needs. If I had the financial resources would I like a ff? Yes but it's not a must have situation. I just enjoy photography and I'm happy that I can pursue my hobby with the equipment I currently own.
03-26-2020, 05:31 PM - 2 Likes   #150
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I see a lot of "I didn't" responses, but that wasn't the question. I respect those who didn't go FF and many excellent pictures have been produced using non-FF cameras (and many really great non-FF cameras there are), but those who aren't FF "need not reply" I think the OP is looking for opinions on why he or she should consider a FF and trying to talk them out of it because you chose not to go that route is fodder for another thread.

I actually jumped from film directly to full-frame (not counting my digital pocket camera) because I had a small stock of FF lenses, and a desire for the best digital photography had to offer. I held back precisely because there wasn't a practically priced FF camera available until the K-1 came along and it offered many cherished features my PZ-1p had plus sensitivity only film cameras could dream of, and an imager representing a state of the art sensor for camera users with resolution that challenged most lenses I was familiar with. That was what I was waiting for in a digital SLR. Note that this came with a cost prohibition, but I was at the point where I really wanted to make the transition to a committed DSLR with FF capabilities and the advantages it offered, so that was the deal maker for me. The K-1 could well be the last DSLR I will have in my lifetime and so far, I haven't regretted that decision at all.
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