Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-22-2020, 06:36 PM   #31
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 11,030
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
My concern is your monitor may support 4K but your computer may not be set to it, and the monitor is scaling the input incorrectly - and this has several drawbacks it often amplifies artifacts like aliasing (commonly describes as jaggies) and banding (which is more of a LUT issue).
Good point.

@bigoak Check that your computer's screen resolution is set to the native resolution of the monitor. If it is not, the monitor will still display an image, but it will be scaled up from a lower resolution.

04-24-2020, 04:52 AM   #32
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tromsų, Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,029
QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
There really aren't any "color pixels". Each monitor pixel is just a "pixel" which is produced by data containing the three data groups for R, G, and B data. I think you might be referring to Bayer layer pixels in their pre-processed form. Prior to processing only one color per pixel is involved so directly out of the sensor, the pixel data represents only one color per pixel. Sets of Bayer pixels are used in an algorithm to obtain data for a replacement pixel with three sets of color information in it. The 36.4 Mpx in a K-1 is initially representative of only one color per pixel, but these are processed to yield 36.4 Mpx, each containing R, G, & B values. Hence, a K-1 image file contains 36.4 ("tri-color") MPixels. The fact that they have been derived from Bayer sets of pixels has issues (not so true when using pixel shift), but there are in fact 36.4Mpx, each carrying RGB info in the final result. Each of those is basically compatible with a display pixel in terms of color information.
I cant agree. On the sensor, each pixel only consists of true scene data in a single color. The other two primary colors in that pixel dont have any true color information or resolving information. Its only interpolated from neigbouring pixels that have those colors resolved. Comparing bayer to the older foveon sensors that have three colors in each pixel, the bayer truly have less resolving power on the pixel level, due to this interpolation. Its also possible to explain mathematically.

On the display side its another story. Each pixel have 3 colors, but its not a uniform pixel where all colors are presented at the same whole area. Each color covers only 1/3 of the pixel area (usually) and their position are 1/3 pixel shifted relative to each other (usually). In other words, details on the pixel level are skewed somewhat. This is what causes color fringing on small b/w text on displays when not using windows with the correct clear view settings. Or similar technologies that try to compensate for the shifted position of the colors.

Ideally we should have foveon sensors capturing 3 colors in each pixel and then a display which have all three colors covering the whole area of each pixel.
Or alternatively, a bayer sensor with a display with a sub-pixel matching bayer pattern.
04-24-2020, 10:12 AM   #33
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 39,851
QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I cant agree. On the sensor, each pixel only consists of true scene data in a single color.
I can't agree. On the sensor are photo detectors that respond to light. It makes no difference whether filters (Bayer or otherwise) are in the stack. Each detector responds to light and registers its response as a voltage. The same is true for the detectors on Foveon sensors. Pixels come way down the image processing pathway, oftentimes on the user's computer.


Steve
04-25-2020, 04:11 PM   #34
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Idaho
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I cant agree. On the sensor, each pixel only consists of true scene data in a single color. The other two primary colors in that pixel dont have any true color information or resolving information. Its only interpolated from neigbouring pixels that have those colors resolved. Comparing bayer to the older foveon sensors that have three colors in each pixel, the bayer truly have less resolving power on the pixel level, due to this interpolation. Its also possible to explain mathematically.

I did mention "issues" with a Bayer filter. Resolution is one of them. I agree that when using a Bayer filter, individual pixels are receiving only primary color information, but that isn't true of the output from an interpolated Bayer system - same number of pixels but each is a tri-color data piece.

On the display side its another story. Each pixel have 3 colors, but its not a uniform pixel where all colors are presented at the same whole area. Each color covers only 1/3 of the pixel area (usually) and their position are 1/3 pixel shifted relative to each other (usually). In other words, details on the pixel level are skewed somewhat. This is what causes color fringing on small b/w text on displays when not using windows with the correct clear view settings. Or similar technologies that try to compensate for the shifted position of the colors.

On displays with a color mask (projector displays typically don't have these), pixels can be independent of the mask (particularly in the case of old CRT displays).

Ideally we should have foveon sensors capturing 3 colors in each pixel and then a display which have all three colors covering the whole area of each pixel.
Or alternatively, a bayer sensor with a display with a sub-pixel matching bayer pattern.
That would be nice

04-26-2020, 11:27 PM   #35
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,457
QuoteOriginally posted by Simen1 Quote
I cant agree. On the sensor, each pixel only consists of true scene data in a single color.
Looking with a magnified at my HD monitor, I can see three dots (one for each primary color) for each of the 1920 x 1080 pixels, so by camera marketing standards, my HD monitor resolves the same as a 6.22 Mega pixels digital camera using a bayer color filter array. 4K monitor resolve as much as 25Mpixels camera.

TV marketers should be inspired by the marketing of camera companies, rename 2K monitors now sold as 6Mega pixels monitors and 8K TV could be sold as 100Mega pixels monitors. But that would be cheating like for cameras.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, 4k, bayer, color, data, display, full-frame, hdmi, images, k-1, k1, mpx, pentax, photos, pixel, pixels, port, screen, sets, thanks, view
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 & K-5 II 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
What is 4k video in K1? gmans Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 9 02-17-2016 07:23 PM
FF vs APS-C - D810 vs K200D - $4K vs $200 wtlwdwgn General Photography 9 04-08-2015 11:11 AM
Enthusiast vs Prosumer vs Semi Pro vs Pro vs APSC vs Full Frame mickyd Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 11-12-2013 07:14 PM
Black Magic releasing 4K camera for $4k and Pocket RAW video camera for $1k ploetzlich Photographic Industry and Professionals 9 08-07-2013 04:18 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:48 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top