[brainwave]

EDIT 2 : I just saw that the 28-105 lens is the only D-FA lens not welcome in Ricoh's own Best Photo Contest. Why the special treatment to this lens if its that excellent?


Hi All. I recently joined Pentax forums and its been a fun ride. This post will be a little bit of a rant, but I would like your inputs on certain things I have on my mind.

I purchased the K-1 ii with the 28-105 kit lens from Europe last year. Given the 1:80 conversion ratio between Indian currency and the Euro, it was an expensive purchase but I was able to afford it thanks to a small sustainance allowance I received when I was working there (coupled with my savings from my job in India, it was enough). The kit lens produces decent images particularly stepped down to f/8 and lower. Maybe stepping it down lesser will also work, I have just stepped down to f/8 whenever I needed sharpness as it was a guaranteed hit. However, I have borrowed and used a D-FA 24-70 f/2.8 lens during my Europe stay and that lens seemed at a different level altogether. The colors popped a lot more, the sharpness seemed much more, bokeh was possible. The color science also seemed different altogether! I don't seem to be able to replicate the results with my kit-lens. I never had the chance to compare them side by side however, so this is only out of my memory.

I always knew a zoom like the 24-70 f/2.8 was going to be super expensive, but I was hoping to use the cheaper primes. The sales guy also told me Pentax will be releasing more full-frame lenses and I took his word for it. As a bonus, I was hoping to use the older but more affordable lenses on my K-1 with slight loss in autofocus speed. What saddened me was that all new lenses released by Pentax were very expensive, made prohibitionally so by the fact that Indian salaries are quite low, there is a 1:80 conversion ratio between Euro and INR, and there is a 30% import premium on all imports (since Pentax is not available in India, I have to import it). And most affordable older lenses do not elicit the same quality from the K1, they just don't seem to have the optics for it. The limiteds such as 77 f/1.8 do have great optics, but even those are super expensive.

Comparing with competitors, Nikon and Canon have primes in 35mm, 50mm f/1.8 that are both sharp and affordable - albeit fragile. Fuji has a good footprint in India and affordable primes. Pentax has almost no presence in India - so no second hand local market either. As a last resort, I was hoping to buy used lenses and pay the 30% import premium in order to use my camera to the fullest. But turns out shipping to India is also a hassle and that route is also closed.

I really regret not doing my full research before jumping the ship to full-frame Pentax.

So, all things said and done, I now am stuck with a great camera but only the kit lens. This is likely going to be situation until 2027/2028. I hav three questions :

1. How much am I missing out by using only the kit lens, and not being able to afford any of the newer Pentax released lenses?
2. What used lens options are best in terms of bringing out great colors and sharpness, like the D-FA 24-70 f/2.8 did on the K1 body?
3. What are the equivalents of affordable, but sharp 35mm f/1.8 from Nikon/Canon?

Eager to hear your thoughts, its making me restless that I have a great camera body but I will always draw only average results.

EDIT : Here is my flickr with image samples (not reference samples, all are post-processed as there were taken for the single-in challenge). Some images were taken with a flash and/or a 10$ screw-on macro filter. As advised, I will pull up the previous 24-70mm shots and post comparisions with my current 28-105 kit lens in a follow-up post.

---

Last edited by brainwave; 07-07-2020 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Missed the title

[HarisF1]

I think you may have a poor example of the 28-105 because from many reports the only advantages the 24-70 has are the wide end of 24mm and the larger aperture at f/2.8. The 28-105 is only a kit lens by name. It's probably one of the best 'kit' zooms available for any system.

[brainwave]

I think you may have a poor example of the 28-105 because from many reports the only advantages the 24-70 has are the wide end of 24mm and the larger aperture at f/2.8. The 28-105 is only a kit lens by name. It's probably one of the best 'kit' zooms available for any system.

The color science part I am still not sure - since I also switched my "processing" from lightroom to Raw Therapee, and I do not yet know how to use Raw Therapee properly. So you're saying that both - the kit lens and the 24-70 should have nearly identical renderings in color around F/6.3 or F/8? If someone has both - the kit lens and the D-FA 24-70 lens, it would be great to know for sure.

[awscreo]

Don't take this the wrong way, but full frame systems are generally expensive. You buy a 2k usd camera, expect to buy expensive full frame glass for it too. I personally have a whole range covered, and I don't think I spent a crazy amount for it. You can do it cheaper with older film era glass too, would save you a ton.

1. Pentax DA 50 1.8 covers full frame, is a pretty sharp and a VERY light lens. That was the first lens i bought for the system. Can be found for like $80.
2. DFA 28-105 is an amazing lens. Sharp, quality build. I don't think it would be easy to find a kit lens for other systems that can rival this gem.
3. Look at Tamron 70-200 2.8 or a sigma 70-200 2.8 for a cheaper alternative to a DFA 70-200 2.8. I personally have the tamron, and it's a very nice lens imo.
4. DFA 35 f2 is $300 new, seems like a good and small lens.
5. DA 70 2.4 covers a full frame, and looks to be a nice lens as well. Small and light, and not too expensive. Also, the LTD lenses are spectacular.
6. Samyang's manual lenses cover K mount, a lot of good and affordable glass there. 14mm 2.8 is around $275, 85 1.4 is around $250.
7. Infinite number of vintage glass available for the system.
8. Apparently DFA 70-300 is coming at some point, if it's priced similar to 28-105, and is made with the same care, it'll be another gem.
9. Tamron 90 2.8 macro can be found for around $200, its ultra sharp, and can be a portrait lens, as well as a macro one.
10. You can fill every niche with some research. And you don't have to spend insane amounts of cash.

Side point - go check out users DFA 28-105 galleries, you'll see that you can achieve great results with that "kit" lens.
Here's mine: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30682087@N03/albums/72157680549936635

---

Last edited by awscreo; 07-06-2020 at 12:59 PM.

[jatrax]

Calling the DFA 28-105 a "kit lens" is not really accurate in the historical sense where "kit" lenses were cheap starter lenses. I have and use both the DFA 28-105 and DFA 24-70. Obviously the 24-70 has the ability to go to f/2.8 which changes some things. But optically I do not really see a dramatic difference. Lighting, focus and composition have bigger impacts. I do not think you are missing much not having the 24-70. As to other premium lenses I cannot really say. The DFA 50mm and the new DFA 85mm are excellent lenses by the reports so far but not something I would spend that much money on.

For primes there are the quite well regarded F and FA series. I use mostly F primes but also have an FA 85mm. The FA 35mm f/2 was just updated with new coatings and it is quite inexpensive.

[FozzFoster]

You can do it cheaper with older film era glass too, would save you a ton.

+1 Major advantage of the Pentax K-Mount... K-Mount lenses manufactured since 1975 work as expected on your K-1. Huge second-hand market.

[brainwave]

Don't take this the wrong way, but full frame systems are generally expensive. You buy a 2k usd camera, expect to buy expensive full frame glass for it too. I personally have a whole range covered, and I don't think I spent a crazy amount for it. You can do it cheaper with older film era glass too, would save you a ton.

1. Pentax DA 50 1.8 covers full frame, is a pretty sharp and a VERY light lens. That was the first lens i bought for the system. Can be found for like $80.
2. DFA 28-105 is an amazing lens. Sharp, quality build. I don't think it would be easy to find a kit lens for other systems that can rival this gem.
3. Look at Tamron 70-200 2.8 or a sigma 70-200 2.8 for a cheaper alternative to a DFA 70-200 2.8. I personally have the tamron, and it's a very nice lens imo.
4. DFA 35 f2 is $300 new, seems like a good and small lens.
5. DA 70 2.4 covers a full frame, and looks to be a nice lens as well. Small and light, and not too expensive. Also, the LTD lenses are spectacular.
6. Samyang's manual lenses cover K mount, a lot of good and affordable glass there. 14mm 2.8 is around $275, 85 1.4 is around $250.
7. Infinite number of vintage glass available for the system.
8. Apparently DFA 70-300 is coming at some point, if it's priced similar to 28-105, and is made with the same care, it'll be another gem.
9. Tamron 90 2.8 macro can be found for around $200, its ultra sharp, and can be a portrait lens, as well as a macro one.
10. You can fill every niche with some research. And you don't have to spend insane amounts of cash.

4. DFA 35 f2 is $300 new, seems like a good and small lens.

Thanks a lot for this response, I think I am going to hunt for these lenses used on ebay/Pentax Forums and pay the 30% premium to import them to India after the COVID-19 situation ends and shipping routes open up. Thank you, this really opens up a lot of options.

[normhead]

Look through the lens reviews here on the forum.
The 28-105 is a great lens. You're selling it short.
If we are going to believe that yours is not up to par, we are going to have to see images. Until we see those we won't know if you are maxing out your 28-105. Many time we find people's problems with thier lenses is that they don't really understand photography.

Thinking about other systems is a waste of your time. Changing systems may make a difference turning a great image into an even better images, but a run of the mill image is run of the mill no matter what gear you use.
Some cheaper options for you.... Tamron 90, the best cheap but top of the charts lens "not enough" money can buy.

DA 35 2.4 or 40XS 2.8, or DA 50 1.8.
Any Pentax 100 macro.

Comparing with competitors, Nikon and Canon have primes in 35mm, 50mm f/1.8 that are both sharp and affordable

But I have to say, implying that Canon and Nikon have cheaper options and Pentax doesn't just isn't correct.

[brainwave]

But I have to say, implying that Canon and Nikon have cheaper options and Pentax doesn't just isn't correct.

This is true specifically for India, and only for the 35mm and 50mm bracket. I did check the Nikon lenses for 70-200 f/2.8 and boy its as expensive as Pentax lenses, don't know if it is weather sealed to go with.

Do you happen to know if there any difference in color rendition between 28-105 and the 24-70 f/2.8?

In any case, here is my flickr for reference, all images are with the K-1 and the kit lens (sometimes adding a screw-on macro filter for some close up shots).

[awscreo]

Thanks a lot for this response, I think I am going to hunt for these lenses used on ebay/Pentax Forums and pay the 30% premium to import them to India after the COVID-19 situation ends and shipping routes open up. Thank you, this really opens up a lot of options.

No worries. Look around the forum for samples and reviews. Also maybe someone will be willing to ship stuff overseas in the Buy/Sell section. I'd say just getting a DA 50 1.8 would add some excitement to your stuff due to shallow depth of field with the 1.8 aperture (when I was switching from MFT system that's definitely what I was looking for).

As you decide on what type of photography you're into, you can collect gear that suits your needs.

[normhead]

This is true specifically for India, and only for the 35mm and 50mm bracket. I did check the Nikon lenses for 70-200 f/2.8 and boy its as expensive as Pentax lenses, don't know if it is weather sealed to go with.

The goto for affordable in a 70-200 would be a used copy of a Tamron 70-200 2.8. IN Pentax mount they are screw drive and noisey, but by far the preferred choice of the bargain seeker crowed. I have an old F 70-210, and they can be found very cheap, but I'm not sure you'd be OK with the image quality as it's prone to purple fringing and CA. It's the least corrected 13 element lens ever made as far as I can tell.

[awscreo]

Thanks a lot for this response, I think I am going to hunt for these lenses used on ebay/Pentax Forums and pay the 30% premium to import them to India after the COVID-19 situation ends and shipping routes open up. Thank you, this really opens up a lot of options.

Look at this post as well for a better picture of what lenses are available for the Pentax FF system. Some of the glass is probably not easy to find, but you can see there's a ton in there and can easily cover almost anything you can ever imagine.

Current Pentax-K FF lenses overview picture - PentaxForums.com

[BigMackCam]

As Norm says, it would be very helpful if you could provide us with a few example photos. One or two from both the 28-105 and 24-70 - accompanied with 100% crops, EXIF data (or - at the very least - shutter speed, aperture and ISO information) and an explanation of where you see a difference in sharpness and colour rendering. No-one here will judge you on the composition or content of the photos - it's just so we can see what you see and understand why you've drawn your conlusions. The 28-105 has an excellent reputation, even at wider apertures than f/8. Whilst the 24-70 should indeed be better still in certain use cases, the difference shouldn't be night and day.

[awscreo]

Thanks a lot for this response, I think I am going to hunt for these lenses used on ebay/Pentax Forums and pay the 30% premium to import them to India after the COVID-19 situation ends and shipping routes open up. Thank you, this really opens up a lot of options.

Just remembered, the Tamron 28-75 2.8 is pretty cheap I think. If you can't justify getting the DFA 24-70, it's a pretty good alternative.

[Adam]

I also wouldn't look past manual focus lenses. For example, with an M or A series 50mm F1.4, you'll be able to get really good image quality for well under $100. These lenses are also very easy to find.