Gritty results-K1mk2 pictures with 560mm

Tim_RichertImages · 10-15-2020, 11:49 AM

Ok so this is driving me nuts but am I missing something? My wildlife photos from my k1mk2 when using the 560mm don't seem as sharp as they should be (perfect lock on in auto, dead on in manual). While I'm no Morten Hilmer (watch him on youtube) it seems as though I should be getting at least as clear results as him. Maybe I am being dumb and missing something however the photos from my 560 especially- seem so gritty. Photos from my other lenses (55-300, manual 50mm, 18-55 etc ) still seem gritty but not nearly as bad.

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**jatrax** · 10-15-2020, 12:00 PM

I am certainly no long lens expert but here are a few thoughts:
- are you using a tripod? If so is image stabilization off?
- if not on a tripod 1/320 of a second is much too slow for me to be able to get solid images
- have you fine tuned the focus on the lens?
- a 'perfect' lock in auto is still going to be a large area at that range. Possibly enough to catch the nose or ear rather than the eye.
- dead on in manual is reliant on the diopter being correctly adjusted for your eye

The image is too low a resolution as uploaded for me to really tell much. It is of course also quite dark which might be part of the problem. I suggest you do some tests using live view to focus on a well light target and compare that image to ones taken using manual and auto focus through the viewfinder. All on a tripod and all without moving anything. It might give you some information on what is going on.

KiloHotelphoto · 10-15-2020, 12:02 PM

From my experience it’s just not that good of a lens. I owned it for a couple years before moving on to Canon for my wildlife shooting with a 600 F4 IS II. You can’t compare the two and I’m sure it’s similar to Mortens Nikon 600/4. They are just in another league.

**BigMackCam** · 10-15-2020, 12:14 PM - **1 Like**

Hi Tim - looking at the photo provided, I can't see what you mean by "gritty". I interpret "gritty" as noisy, and nothing to do with sharpness...

The deer, plus the grass and overhead twigs in the focal plane, look sharp as a razor to me at this size of image, and I don't see much in the way of noise.

Could you provide a link to the full size image, or a 1:1 crop of an area you feel shows this gritty effect?

I note the photo was shot at f/5.6 (i.e. wide open). You'll improve resolution by stopping down to f/8. I realise this isn't ideal if you want to keep your ISO and/or shutter speed up, but it's the way with almost every lens that you need to stop down somewhat for best resolution.

Have you carried out AF fine tuning to ensure AF is absolutely spot-on for the lens? At this sort of focal length, depth of field at f/5.6 is very shallow...

**MossyRocks** · 10-15-2020, 12:15 PM

From looking as closely as I can at the supplied image it looks like it is back focusing a little bit. the blades of grass a bit behind the deer look sharper to me. Were you shooting off of a tripod? If not I would start there and manually focus in magnified live view for the best results since the viewfinder doesn't' have any focusing aids.

I would suggest going to park that has a baseball diamond and go stand out in the outfield on a sunny day with the lens on a big tripod. The do the fine focus adjustment for the lens on the fence behind home plate. That makes a great target and you will be fairly far back. Also keep in mind that wide open 560mm even at a bit of distance it has a fairly narrow depth of field. Stopping it down some will help and the farther away and more stopped down you are the better chance of getting that perfect focus but you will need a lot of light, sitll target or a quality eating high ISO.

If I use 500mm f/5.6 and a distance to subject of 100 feet the DoF is under 3 feet so being at 560mm it would be slightly narrower. So it would be easy to miss the focus by a bit.

Tim_RichertImages · 10-15-2020, 12:24 PM

Yes shot on tripod, however everything else all have said leans to practice makes perfect. Aka get better lol...thanks to you all. I'll take all the above suggestions and run with them.

awscreo · 10-15-2020, 12:45 PM

I'd imagine dof is pretty thin with such long lenses. I would suggest maybe trying to test it with a still subject at the same distance, a solid tripod, live view to ensure perfect focus, and a rather high shutter speed to beat any vibrations. If the lens shows better results in that scenario, then it might need some af calibration and maybe more shutter speed.

swanlefitte · 10-15-2020, 12:47 PM

It looks like the dear was about 100 meters judging by the size if the width isn't cropped. DOF should be a good 11 meters. is shake reduction turned off for tripod shooting?

**BigMackCam** · 10-15-2020, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by swanlefitte

It looks like the dear was about 100 meters judging by the size if the width isn't cropped. DOF should be a good 11 meters. is shake reduction turned off for tripod shooting?

At 100 metres, depth of field for this setup - K-1 MkII in APS-C mode (which I assume is the default?) with DA560 @ f/5.6 - is 7.18m... and remember, that's just talking about how much of the image is in acceptable focus, not precise focus...

swanlefitte · 10-15-2020, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

At 100 metres, depth of field for this setup - K-1 MkII in APS-C mode (which I assume is the default?) with DA560 @ f/5.6 - is 7.18m... and remember, that's just talking about how much of the image is in acceptable focus, not precise focus...

If its in crop mode then it is about 67 meters which is DOF of only 3 meters. still a deer is only about a half meter wide.
there are several deer around here. I am judging by a few weeks ago I took a picture of a deer from about 30-40 meters away at 322mm in crop mode and how much frame it filled.

opps that is about 150meters on full frame if a deer is 2 meters across then the field of view is about 10 meters. in crop more like 225 meters. https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calcu...2}],%22m%22:1}

**pentageek** · 10-15-2020, 02:57 PM

When I use Sigma 150-500@500, I would consider 1/320s to be rather long exposure, even with Sigma's image stabilizer. Moreover, deer's hind leg looks blurred to me, what suggest a movement. Last, but not least, grass and branches at the top look sharp, what is quite strange, as usually sharpness decreases to edges of a picture. If it were my lens, I would test it on a tripod with static subjects to eliminate hand shake, movement blur, and to verify for possible back/front focus.

**JensE** · 10-15-2020, 03:05 PM - **1 Like**

At the distances which swanlefitte calculated, movement in the air may have contributed some blur at 1/320 s.

swanlefitte · 10-15-2020, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by JensE

At the distances which swanlefitte calculated, movement in the air may have contributed some blur at 1/320 s.

At that distance a tripod needs to be excellent and air can diffract.

Wheatfield · 10-16-2020, 08:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tim_RichertImages

Yes shot on tripod, however everything else all have said leans to practice makes perfect. Aka get better lol...thanks to you all. I'll take all the above suggestions and run with them.

Are you using a "protective filter"?

normhead · 10-16-2020, 08:58 AM

We need a 1:1 crop of the deer and a list of settings. Since pretty isn't photographic terminology, we're kind o guessing what it means.

Particularly I'd be interested in the EV setting. What I'm seeing is a slightly backlight situation that probably needed a plus .3 EV setting at least maybe more. The EV setting is more critical at 800 ISO as you've already clipped 3 stops off the bottom of the captured image. When your subject is in shadow and you've gone minus EV, expect noise. But I'm just guessing.. Your image doesn't define the issue.

10-15-2020, 02:40 PM	#10
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Originally posted by BigMackCam At 100 metres, depth of field for this setup - K-1 MkII in APS-C mode (which I assume is the default?) with DA560 @ f/5.6 - is 7.18m... and remember, that's just talking about how much of the image is in acceptable focus, not precise focus... If its in crop mode then it is about 67 meters which is DOF of only 3 meters. still a deer is only about a half meter wide. there are several deer around here. I am judging by a few weeks ago I took a picture of a deer from about 30-40 meters away at 322mm in crop mode and how much frame it filled. opps that is about 150meters on full frame if a deer is 2 meters across then the field of view is about 10 meters. in crop more like 225 meters. https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calcu...2}],%22m%22:1} Last edited by swanlefitte; 10-15-2020 at 08:32 PM.

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10-15-2020, 12:00 PM	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	I am certainly no long lens expert but here are a few thoughts: - are you using a tripod? If so is image stabilization off? - if not on a tripod 1/320 of a second is much too slow for me to be able to get solid images - have you fine tuned the focus on the lens? - a 'perfect' lock in auto is still going to be a large area at that range. Possibly enough to catch the nose or ear rather than the eye. - dead on in manual is reliant on the diopter being correctly adjusted for your eye The image is too low a resolution as uploaded for me to really tell much. It is of course also quite dark which might be part of the problem. I suggest you do some tests using live view to focus on a well light target and compare that image to ones taken using manual and auto focus through the viewfinder. All on a tripod and all without moving anything. It might give you some information on what is going on.

10-15-2020, 12:02 PM	#3
KiloHotelphoto Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Glen Mills, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,030	From my experience it’s just not that good of a lens. I owned it for a couple years before moving on to Canon for my wildlife shooting with a 600 F4 IS II. You can’t compare the two and I’m sure it’s similar to Mortens Nikon 600/4. They are just in another league.

10-15-2020, 12:14 PM - 1 Like	#4
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Hi Tim - looking at the photo provided, I can't see what you mean by "gritty". I interpret "gritty" as noisy, and nothing to do with sharpness... The deer, plus the grass and overhead twigs in the focal plane, look sharp as a razor to me at this size of image, and I don't see much in the way of noise. Could you provide a link to the full size image, or a 1:1 crop of an area you feel shows this gritty effect? I note the photo was shot at f/5.6 (i.e. wide open). You'll improve resolution by stopping down to f/8. I realise this isn't ideal if you want to keep your ISO and/or shutter speed up, but it's the way with almost every lens that you need to stop down somewhat for best resolution. Have you carried out AF fine tuning to ensure AF is absolutely spot-on for the lens? At this sort of focal length, depth of field at f/5.6 is very shallow...

10-15-2020, 12:15 PM	#5
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982	From looking as closely as I can at the supplied image it looks like it is back focusing a little bit. the blades of grass a bit behind the deer look sharper to me. Were you shooting off of a tripod? If not I would start there and manually focus in magnified live view for the best results since the viewfinder doesn't' have any focusing aids. I would suggest going to park that has a baseball diamond and go stand out in the outfield on a sunny day with the lens on a big tripod. The do the fine focus adjustment for the lens on the fence behind home plate. That makes a great target and you will be fairly far back. Also keep in mind that wide open 560mm even at a bit of distance it has a fairly narrow depth of field. Stopping it down some will help and the farther away and more stopped down you are the better chance of getting that perfect focus but you will need a lot of light, sitll target or a quality eating high ISO. If I use 500mm f/5.6 and a distance to subject of 100 feet the DoF is under 3 feet so being at 560mm it would be slightly narrower. So it would be easy to miss the focus by a bit.

10-15-2020, 12:24 PM	#6
Tim_RichertImages New Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 15 Original Poster	Yes shot on tripod, however everything else all have said leans to practice makes perfect. Aka get better lol...thanks to you all. I'll take all the above suggestions and run with them.

10-15-2020, 12:45 PM	#7
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	I'd imagine dof is pretty thin with such long lenses. I would suggest maybe trying to test it with a still subject at the same distance, a solid tripod, live view to ensure perfect focus, and a rather high shutter speed to beat any vibrations. If the lens shows better results in that scenario, then it might need some af calibration and maybe more shutter speed.

10-15-2020, 12:47 PM	#8
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	It looks like the dear was about 100 meters judging by the size if the width isn't cropped. DOF should be a good 11 meters. is shake reduction turned off for tripod shooting?

10-15-2020, 12:58 PM	#9
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Originally posted by swanlefitte It looks like the dear was about 100 meters judging by the size if the width isn't cropped. DOF should be a good 11 meters. is shake reduction turned off for tripod shooting? At 100 metres, depth of field for this setup - K-1 MkII in APS-C mode (which I assume is the default?) with DA560 @ f/5.6 - is 7.18m... and remember, that's just talking about how much of the image is in acceptable focus, not precise focus...

10-15-2020, 02:57 PM	#11
pentageek Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 420	When I use Sigma 150-500@500, I would consider 1/320s to be rather long exposure, even with Sigma's image stabilizer. Moreover, deer's hind leg looks blurred to me, what suggest a movement. Last, but not least, grass and branches at the top look sharp, what is quite strange, as usually sharpness decreases to edges of a picture. If it were my lens, I would test it on a tripod with static subjects to eliminate hand shake, movement blur, and to verify for possible back/front focus.

10-15-2020, 03:05 PM - 1 Like	#12
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	At the distances which swanlefitte calculated, movement in the air may have contributed some blur at 1/320 s.

10-15-2020, 08:35 PM	#13
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Originally posted by JensE At the distances which swanlefitte calculated, movement in the air may have contributed some blur at 1/320 s. At that distance a tripod needs to be excellent and air can diffract.

10-16-2020, 08:16 AM - 1 Like	#14
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Tim_RichertImages Yes shot on tripod, however everything else all have said leans to practice makes perfect. Aka get better lol...thanks to you all. I'll take all the above suggestions and run with them. Are you using a "protective filter"?

10-16-2020, 08:58 AM	#15
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	We need a 1:1 crop of the deer and a list of settings. Since pretty isn't photographic terminology, we're kind o guessing what it means. Particularly I'd be interested in the EV setting. What I'm seeing is a slightly backlight situation that probably needed a plus .3 EV setting at least maybe more. The EV setting is more critical at 800 ISO as you've already clipped 3 stops off the bottom of the captured image. When your subject is in shadow and you've gone minus EV, expect noise. But I'm just guessing.. Your image doesn't define the issue.