[bobmaxja]

I don't know how many people would purchase this, but I'd like to see a divergence of the full frame line, and Ricoh makes something like the Nikon Df as a "lower end" FF body for people who want more traditional controls and a smaller camera. I'd be fine with a few less megapixels of sensor resolution, or keep it at 36, my hope is improved high-ISO image quality.


I don't think this will ever happen.

Exactly will never happen, they dont have enough resource to develop one off camera.

[pres589]

Will there be a SuperCheap and SuperSimple FF Spotmatic in a weather-sealed plastic body with the usual according 2 reliable but cheap zoom lenses?

I don't want a plastic body or anything "SuperCheap". My thought was basically repackage existing tech with tweaks in a smaller body with more direct controls. Think more Fuji X-T4 and less Sigma fp or Sony A7C as far as control layout. Reuse the K-1's sensor if that's easiest / cheapest way to developing this camera. I don't know if it's possible but reusing the K-P's chassis with a different top deck and a fixed screen is what I'm envisioning. And Pentax already offers the D-FA 28-105; they don't need to create any glass to support this body.


Somebody else said Ricoh doesn't have the resources to support a "one off body" like this. I think they do have the resources, or could find & hire them, but they wouldn't want to split off a subset of possible K-1II (lord their naming convention is dumb) buyers into a separate body that reduces sales volumes of each. Kind of like what happened with the Df. But I think the K-1 could use a weight reduction and this is the kind of body that should get them there.

[carlb]

The extra wheel on the top of the camera was a brilliant innovation. Most people who have actually used it on the K-1 love it. That's why it was continued in the KP.

And in case you haven't noticed, the K-3 Mark III, the design of which you purport to like, also has the third wheel. So I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make.

As for making the K-1 look like a Fuji, that's one of the most ridiculous things I've read here for a while. And that's saying something.

+ 1. As an owner of both a KP and (now) a K-1 I can confidently say that the third wheel on the top cover was a stroke of genius. My only gripe would be I'd like them to be a bit more customisable by each user. But it's a small grumble about a pair of absolutely top-shelf cameras.

[noelpolar]

........What I really need is more time to make interesting images with the gear I already have.

This can't be true.... you have over 12,000 post's in this forum.... you seem to have lots of time....

Anyway.... I'm sure Pentax will do something that makes it hard to ignore a K1new.... but... it will be difficult to betray my K1... they really do most things good enough for me.

---

Last edited by noelpolar; 01-01-2021 at 09:47 PM.

[jatrax]

you have over 12,000 post's in this forum.... you seem to have lots of time....

I only post when it's dark out and too cloudy for astrophotgraphy

[gatorguy]

I've had my K1 since early 2017. I'm happy with it. At this point I don't think I would consider getting a new camera to replace the K1, unless the K1 went up and died on me. Then as long as the K1 had given me great service, say over a decade, I would probably get the full frame Pentax DSLR that would be current at that time.

The 36 something FF sensor and features of my K1 are great. I don't need 'more' camera than my K1.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion. Love my K1 as is, even if there could be improvements in a couple areas. I doubt a K1III would bring enough to lure me in since those shortfalls from my current one will probably be answered with the K3III which I see myself with by the end of summer. Replacing the K1 would be a hard sell for me. It's great the way it is and with the new gen K3 as an action-oriented camera my bases would be covered.

EDIT:As a sidenote I would not be shocked if no new FF is brought to market. According to Pentax the K3III is intended to blur the line between APS-C and full-frame, close the gap so to speak. If that's an honest statement then what would the need be for a new FF? A new medium format,maybe.

But if Pentax decides to put all their effort into APS-C cameras I would not be surprised. Solely my own opinion.

[beetee]

The extra wheel on the top of the camera was a brilliant innovation. Most people who have actually used it on the K-1 love it. That's why it was continued in the KP.

And in case you haven't noticed, the K-3 Mark III, the design of which you purport to like, also has the third wheel. So I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make.

As for making the K-1 look like a Fuji, that's one of the most ridiculous things I've read here for a while. And that's saying something.

Since you say you dont understand, I will try to explain one last time before I take this issue to the grave:

adding just a wheel to an otherwise nearly flawless design, that adds redundant functionality is something very far from brilliant...


Just DONT TELL ME but ASK YOURSELF what :
what could you not do or set without the wheels in a matter of a second or or a bit more??


But pls UNDERSTAND I write this only as a matter of principle, since you really ASKED for it,
because,
I also already stated that I see it CAN be practical in some very rare situations, where a photographer wears very thick gloves.
Really I get it. Not such a bad thing.

I dont see WHY "liking something as a whole" but also providing positive criticism about one or two points in that product, you may not like*
(*or see is superfluous)
...is something that can not be understood?

If I wouldn't like to call myself a rational being,
I would go so far and ask WHAT point you are trying to make.
I also could go into details and EXPLAIN exactly what I do like in the K-3III design especially.


But since you havent read from the beginning I will just repeat what I already stated and you will get the long version of an answer to my points you seem to not understand,

since you really ASKED for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



SUMMARY
--> a) redundant functionality
--> b) corrupting the "rough and tough" principle.
(since its protruding - for the very own reason i would like the shoulder to be tilted)


And Pentax Designs (up to some point) tried to keep things pretty simple but also with a subtonal very modern touch,
and an overall look that some people may or may not call "INDUSTRIAL"
... AND THAT IS STILL THERE AND ALSO KEPT ALIVE IN ALL THE NEW BODIES
(for that point amongst other points I not only ""PURPORTED**"" to, but really love the design of the new K-3III.. )


Talking only for myself:
I just can not see, how one can be so upset, because someone other is not OK with a little detail in a design and makes his points...
... so you want to blame him to be irrational. why is that?

For me personally, THE WHOLE DESIGN does NOT consist of 2 elements that have not even existed in ANY pentax camera design up to 2016..
To me there is a bit more to a camera, and for that reason i said i liked the design.(which has several other reasons.)


I never said that there would be a not understandable 180° turn in design, so please dont start to blackpaint me.
Or do if you want to... I will not make further responses on such attempts since I'v seen how this ends in here so often.

As for your problem with understanding why I see a "fuji turn" in the "since Pentax K-1"-designs:
FOR ME PERSONALLY... :
They *(Fuji)
also do sacrifice "rough&tough"-integrity over stylistic elements.
for instance, ...
just look at their mechanical shutter release cable ..
its a pure fancy-schmanzy thing, and counteracts the sense in having a REMOTE
(which TODAY actually would be to have a release totally seperate from the camer so nothing can move, when you release)
another example... Shutter-Time-Dials....
One of the initial ideas behind front- and rear-e-dials
(if you think hu what is this, those are the dials right at your index finger and your thumb that have been present at least since the K-7)
was to get rid of such Shutter-Time-Dials...
They are __PER SE__ STYLISTIC ELEMENTS nowadays...

now take a straight look at some FUJI XT-3 from the front... put the K-1 next to it and look again.
then go and allage again that this is an irrational assumption..

Or go and take a look just right here --->
ahem, ahem ... - Album on Imgur


So I hope you understand my point now. ... (I thought it would be unfriendly to not answer and hope you are OK with it.)

JUST ONE LAST QUESTION concerning the mystery-dials:
If you would have to decide between a movable display and the oh-so brilliant dials...
would you really go for the dials?? I hardly doubt that.

But I have the feeling many people blew up those wheels into being something totally sensational, so we now have the problem,
that RICOH chose to listen to those customers... and maybe heard the wrong music play, which in their ears was:
mode dials more important than moveable display. pls pls, pentaxians need more of those mode dials. ?

I really believe RICOH-PENTAX Imaging produces great cameras, but we are a niche brand now.
And when it comes to money and production efforts, decisions have to be made, and if you sing the wrong songs in here...
(you do have a loads of visits) you may end up with "brilliant" dials but without a moveable display.

I am also aware of the fact, that I am not part of the majority, when I admit the awful truth:
Moveable displays in my humble oppinion also are a thing I dont need.

I am also one of the few people who is really happy about the fixed display and the closed case,
because you will see that many of you will be happy as a clam with the solution RICOH will offer ...

I am pretty sure the K-3III will be a supersolid tank of a camera and way more reliable than some Canon body.
(I have bad experiences with Canon gear throwing odd error numbers at me all the time )

THING is: You can argue FOR or AGAINST the wheels, I dont care anymore, I do have my point, and others have theirs.
For me its totally OK, and again like I said:
having the mystery-dials on the camera or not will not play a role on my other thoughts about this camera.

I just wanted to make clear for me there is a little bit more to the issue, than "just not liking them" .
But I will let you live with your oppinions and decisions from now on.

So since I hope i was able to answer jpzk's and sandys questions I am not going into this again.


Far more interesting:

I don't want a plastic body or anything "SuperCheap". My thought was basically repackage existing tech with tweaks in a smaller body with more direct controls. Think more Fuji X-T4 ...

To avoid any misunderstanding, I understand your point, and the fact that I dont like SOME things about FUJI does not mean I dont like ALL things about FUJI.
For one, I like many ideas and design elements in fuji cameras that dont sacrifice "integrity" or "functionality"...
For instance that they seem to prefer metal over plastic and some models are aviable silver colored with brown leathering... ^^
Jokes aside, ...

I think thats a good idea you did jot down here, but I am not so sure, if there would not be some other options for sensor.

I can always only talk for myself, but I would buy such a camera even if it offered only 20-24MP on its full frame sensor...

And i really think it does not have to be too rugged or so, if it does or should not play in the flagship price-league.
I would be OK with it if it would be just WR.

You already said it for yourself... the question is if RICOH would offer the resources to produce such a body to their PENTAX Imaging Team.
Not if it can.

And when you think about how you can avoid spliting off potential K-1 league buyers, the only way I see for now would be to keep the pixel count way below 40-36MP....
and I dont think that 36MP would be the only option and fear that would still be too much.
Looking at all the 24MP Sensors Nikon might have bought from Sony, I am pretty sure they still offer lower pixel-count FF sensors for very reasonable prices.
(D780 => 24,5MP)

RICOH will just have to be convinced somehow, that people would buy such a camera.
Not so long ago I had a talk with an official from RICOH and they could have dropped the K-1 way earlier(around when the first K-3 arrived) if they wanted to.
But the problem was that nearly no one from the japanese leadership team had high hopes or believed at all that a Pentax Full Frame would sell at all.

And partly they may have been right to do so.
They first had to cook up the forums, and drop FF lens designs at some photo-expos to make people curious and talk about it.
And they did quite good, because despite being not a D850... The Pentax K-1 Mark I sold really excellent and the Mark II also sold quite well and still ranks in high at several camera Top 10's in some magazines and websites.


So I think it is very possible that Pentax decides to drop a cheaper "not so pro"-model around the same time they deliver a K-1 Mark II successor...

And how this will look like, could indeed depend on our discussions in here.
So be careful what you wish for ... you might get it.

Which brings me to the thought, that such a K-?0 Full Frame camera (however the bodys physical appearance is designed) could come
in multicolored variants like other pentax models before... I always liked that.
Just imagine a pentax full frame DSLR - jamaican style ^^

#pentaxlove
(sry bout the bad english by the way.)

No honestly, stop thinkin about what i said about the dials, I have just dropped my 2 cents, and you asked for an explanation by imputing pretense to me when using the word
"purported"
...admited my english is bad and I am not Butler Yates, but I do know how to use a dictionary sandy.

[Trees]

That's more like $1.25

[Sandy Hancock]

Some of us like to have more than one way of doing things.
The third wheel seems to be pretty rugged.

You are entitled to your opinion.

[Rondec]

I think the whole point of the third wheel is to add access to certain features that would require menu diving on another brand of camera. Wifi, pixel shift, iso, exposure compensation and a couple of other things can be assigned to the third wheel. As Sandy says, it is rugged enough that we haven't heard of issues with it. Those who don't like it or prefer to access things using menus can do so, but it is handy. Is it a major breakthrough? Probably not, but once you've used it, you don't particularly want to go back to just two e dials either.

(I'm all for more buttons and wheels).

[iheiramo]

I love the third wheel. My camera is pretty much permanently stuck on manual mode and that third wheel is almost all time set for ISO control. So handy to have all three aspect on the wheels all the time. Much more important than some top screen I never look at. (Actually don't even remember. Had to look at camera to make sure it exist while typing the post )

[beetee]

I will not recap in how many ways the functions on the dials are already redundant ...
but i want to note,
I never said anything about a "top screen"...
(I think you are talking about the info-lcd on the shoulder which experienced photogs use to save battery
if settings-reflection on it is sufficient, since they dont have to chimp every pic on the main screen)


... I just mentioned that IF you think you NEED 2 or up to a 3287 additional wheels on your camera....
for whatsoever reason...
^^ I just would consider it a good idea if such "multifunctional and very important" dials,
would sit partly inside the body or would be designed somehow else like the MZ-S/MZ-D dials...
and thought about a tilted shoulder like on the MZ-D -Design or the 645Z design.
MZ-D | The K-Mount Page

there are certainly other points that could need improvement over additions to the outside appearance of the bodies,
to make the Pentax FF ecosystem more interesting...
(I am just thinking about many makers stopin their SLR lines... which could actually really lead to more people considering pentax if RICOH makes the right product decisions. )
... and maybe we should talk about something else than 'mode-dials', so RICOH-people can hear our thoughts on it instead of reading about dials "yay or nay" stuff.


I dare to say AF.
I dare to say CFExpress Slots.(you can literally roast a quails egg on an SD-card after a series of burst shots or a video session.)
I dare to say cheaper consumer standard zooms.

I sincerely hope someone else also dares to write down his thoughts here,
about what else would should/could be improved in a future FF-Body.


Though I am not the greatest fan of Fuji, as you may know by know,
I think there can be found many interesting ideas in other makers cameras.

Has anybody of you ever tried other makers flag-ship models?
What did you like what did you dislike?
I personally like the LEICA SL2 handling though i also found the Samsung NX-1 menu-system very interesting.

I dont think its possible to satisfy everybody... but i think its possible to have a discussion without accusing others of something.
Thats at least something isnt it?

[gatorguy]

...there are certainly other points that could need improvement over additions to the outside appearance of the bodies,
to make the Pentax FF ecosystem more interesting...
(I am just thinking about many makers stopin their SLR lines... which could actually really lead to more people considering pentax if RICOH makes the right product decisions. )
... and maybe we should talk about something else than 'mode-dials', so RICOH-people can hear our thoughts on it instead of reading about dials "yay or nay" stuff.


I dare to say AF.
I dare to say CFExpress Slots.(you can literally roast a quails egg on an SD-card after a series of burst shots or a video session.)
I dare to say cheaper consumer standard zooms.

I sincerely hope someone else also dares to write down his thoughts here,
about what else would should/could be improved in a future FF-Body.


Though I am not the greatest fan of Fuji, as you may know by know,
I think there can be found many interesting ideas in other makers cameras.

Has anybody of you ever tried other makers flag-ship models?
What did you like what did you dislike?
I personally like the LEICA SL2 handling though i also found the Samsung NX-1 menu-system very interesting.

I dont think its possible to satisfy everybody... but i think its possible to have a discussion without accusing others of something.
Thats at least something isnt it?

I take it English is not your first language. I mention that only so other readers don't jump to a conclusion by misunderstanding your tone and choice of words. I don't take your comments as complaints.

You are 101% correct, there is no camera that would suit everyone. Having a polite and respectful discussion about what you personally are looking for in one and what features from other camera makers you find helpful or interesting makes for an interesting thread. You're not brand-bashing Pentax by simply talking about what might make you a potential K1III customer. Heck it's a camera that's not even rumored at this point so no idea what features it might include.

Welcome to the forums BeeTee.

[Serkevan]

I love the third wheel. My camera is pretty much permanently stuck on manual mode and that third wheel is almost all time set for ISO control. So handy to have all three aspect on the wheels all the time. Much more important than some top screen I never look at. (Actually don't even remember. Had to look at camera to make sure it exist while typing the post )

I wouldn't consider a camera body without 3 e-dials at this point. That's how practical it is to me. I flip it, according to the mode I'm in, between ISO (M/Av) or EV (TAv). I can't see the wheel as a liability when the Mode dial was already there anyway.

The top LCD is... well, it exists. I look at it once in a blue moon, info is in the OVF.

Upgrades I would actually like:
-The new prism material of the K-3iii (Extra bright 0.8x FF OVF, please and thank you).
-Av/TAv with K/M-series lenses.
-New 307k RGB sensor: highlight-weighted metering, face detect AF through OVF.
-Higher resolution back LCD (ideally with better colour calibration.
-Change the third e-dial to be fully programmable, and put a metering mode lever underneath.

That's it from me - I know that any K-1iii will have improved AF and, I guess, a 42/45MP sensor with faster readout speed enabling... dunno, 7 fps, but it's not critical to me.

---------- Post added 01-04-21 at 06:44 AM ----------

Has anybody of you ever tried other makers flag-ship models?
What did you like what did you dislike?

Sony (A7 series) and Canon (5D series).
The Sony is a case study on how to make a camera purposefully uncomfortable, the Canon is mostly fine except for the ridiculous wheel-based aperture on the back.

[Class A]

-Higher resolution back LCD (ideally with better colour calibration.

I don't see why colour calibration would be important unless you are shooting JPEGs.

Even more important that a higher resolution back LCD, in my view, would be the ability to zoom into a full resolution image. Currently, one cannot really judge critical sharpness because one apparently zooms into a preview version of the image that has limited resolution instead of a custom generated 100% resolution image. I'd be happy to wait for an on-demand generation of the full resolution preview.