[btnapa]

FF has the advantage of a more flexible systems with greater speed and larger lens and camera selection. Which is more important for most people over a small gain in IQ that is hard to see.

I agree. That is why I will be a buyer of the 60MP K1 successor. I do landscapes and some commercial work and K1 is ok but I could use the additional resolution offered by the 60MP sensor. In reading about the available medium format offerings, one particular pro user tried and ended up selling the system and going back to 35mm format. The reason was razor thin depth of field of MF. What that means for practical landscape work, you have to do focus stacking to get acceptable depth-fo-field. This to me defeats the purpose of a hi-res MF sensor. A hires 35mm sensor has much better DOF for the same focal length. If the new K1 comes in below $2,800 for the body, they can sign me up for one, may be two of them!!

[texandrews]

...one particular pro user tried and ended up selling the system and going back to 35mm format. The reason was razor thin depth of field of MF. What that means for practical landscape work, you have to do focus stacking to get acceptable depth-fo-field.

Well, that's just dumb on his/her part. It's only razor thin wide open---and it's thinner in FF systems with ultra fast lenses. I don't understand that at all---and I think neither did that photographer!


Deep dof is my game for 95%+ of the work I do. The only time I'm running into "difficulties" is shooting sculptural stuff in tight quarters or in the studio---and I put difficulties in quotes on purpose. There's way more problematic things I have to worry about. And stopping down with medium format lenses is not a problem!


BTW, stacking focus for anyone not shooting action is so drop dead easy now it's ridiculous, and it adds maybe 5 minutes to the capture time, and maybe ten tops in post.

[Fogel70]

I agree. That is why I will be a buyer of the 60MP K1 successor. I do landscapes and some commercial work and K1 is ok but I could use the additional resolution offered by the 60MP sensor. In reading about the available medium format offerings, one particular pro user tried and ended up selling the system and going back to 35mm format. The reason was razor thin depth of field of MF. What that means for practical landscape work, you have to do focus stacking to get acceptable depth-fo-field. This to me defeats the purpose of a hi-res MF sensor. A hires 35mm sensor has much better DOF for the same focal length. If the new K1 comes in below $2,800 for the body, they can sign me up for one, may be two of them!!

With same resolution on FF and MF you can stop down MF more before hitting diffraction limit, so for landscape photography it should not make much difference between these formats. And between FF and crop MF it is less than half a stop difference in DOF at same FOV. It is actually FF that has thinner DOF than crop MF, as there are much faster lenses available for FF.

Unless you talk about full frame 645 or 6x7. But on these formats you need to get used to stopping down much more (and they can take it as they are larger formats).

[btnapa]

BTW, stacking focus for anyone not shooting action is so drop dead easy now it's ridiculous, and it adds maybe 5 minutes to the capture time, and maybe ten tops in post.

I do not have an issue with focus stacking. The issue comes in when you have a scene with trees or leaves that move. The same issue when dealing with pixel shift images. That is why I have not used the pixel shift in my K1 much if ever. When shooting landscapes, I almost always have some kind of a moving object, be it a tree or flowing water, etc.

In my product photography with strobes, again the pixel shift is not usable. I can use continuous lighting but that is a whole new set of lights and additional investment.

I can see focus stacking application for product photography, even with strobes. It is easy to do and as you noted the post is easy too with the available software today.

I have done exposure bracketing on a few projects which deals with multiple images being combined. Again for static situations it works like a charm. My issue is with any element that moves within the composition. Same goes for focus stacking in non-static scenes.

[SFTphotography]

I agree. That is why I will be a buyer of the 60MP K1 successor. I do landscapes and some commercial work and K1 is ok but I could use the additional resolution offered by the 60MP sensor. In reading about the available medium format offerings, one particular pro user tried and ended up selling the system and going back to 35mm format. The reason was razor thin depth of field of MF. What that means for practical landscape work, you have to do focus stacking to get acceptable depth-fo-field. This to me defeats the purpose of a hi-res MF sensor. A hires 35mm sensor has much better DOF for the same focal length. If the new K1 comes in below $2,800 for the body, they can sign me up for one, may be two of them!!

Just stop it down a little more. I use the 645z for landscapes and no issue at F14 getting front to back sharpness. Remember diffraction kicks in later on MF - so F16 is not a mushy mess on 645z that is on FF. The 645z is the best camera I've ever had for landscapes and I suspect landscape photographers are who it's aimed at along with studio photographers.





Not every landscape has an immediate foreground so I don't see the issue.





Anything less than 50mp is old hat on FF. The 45mp BSI sensor is 4 years old - to try retail that is robbery unless it's being sold around £1700.

It really needs to be 50mp or 60mp - either the sensor from the A1 or A7RIV. They are really good 35mm digital sensors.

And thanks to Fuji there has been more interest in 44x33 MF digital - and a 100mp 645z II wouldn't be too difficult to engineer (use the same case, lift the AF module from a newer Pentax, fit the 100mp chip and voila) - and trust me - the lenses could take it. The IQ of even the older glass on 645z is what is most remarkable about the system - no edge softness - just uniform and once sharpened just wonderful.

[texandrews]

Just stop it down a little more. I use the 645z for landscapes and no issue at F14 getting front to back sharpness. Remember diffraction kicks in later on MF - so F16 is not a mushy mess on 645z that is on FF. The 645z is the best camera I've ever had for landscapes and I suspect landscape photographers are who it's aimed at along with studio photographers.

Total agreement.

and trust me - the lenses could take it. The IQ of even the older glass on 645z is what is most remarkable about the system - no edge softness - just uniform and once sharpened just wonderful.

Bingo. This is what I think as well. The only lens I had that I had disappointment with was the 45. Would they all be perfect at 100mp? Probably not---but the perfect is the enemy of the good. Usability is the bigger deal with me, and I bet they'd be plenty usable.


The more intriguing question to me is how they would perform on a FF 645 sensor. I think there might be more sorting sheep from goats, there. But the perfect/good split still applies along with usability. And Fuji will not be doing FF 645 w/o a whole new lens line.

[SFTphotography]

Total agreement.

Bingo. This is what I think as well. The only lens I had that I had disappointment with was the 45. Would they all be perfect at 100mp? Probably not---but the perfect is the enemy of the good. Usability is the bigger deal with me, and I bet they'd be plenty usable.

Reckon the 28-45 and 45-85 would be (maybe not at it's longest end) and all the longer primes (90mm upwards) would be pretty mint. They out resolve the 50mp sensor - not the other way around. The 80-160 wouldn't disgrace itself either.

The older lenses are designed for a larger image circle so I'd have no doubts their sharpness would be uniform all over the frame - and the 4:3 aspect ratio of the sensor would help with this. Lenses fall apart on their sides - if their sides are not being recorded then they are fine. I've a 200 F4 and it's fine too. It cost £200 off eBay...LOL. Even new 645 lenses have cost on their side...

The more intriguing question to me is how they would perform on a FF 645 sensor. I think there might be more sorting sheep from goats, there. But the perfect/good split still applies along with usability. And Fuji will not be doing FF 645 w/o a whole new lens line.

On full FF (lets assume the same sensor as per the phase one IQ150) we can say good night to the 28-45 and 90. As these are the most expensive 645z lenses...ouch. They are designed around a smaller image circle...

The older stuff would work well...but we revisit our corners and frame edges (of which are hidden when used on the 44x33 crop MF sensor).

Pentax hasn't ever made a full MF digital sensor, both the 645z and older 645d were 44x33 - the new one will be the 100mp thing...and it's really good and all the older stuff will work a treat with any mushy edges simply cropped off by the smaller sensor.

---

Last edited by SFTphotography; 03-31-2021 at 08:12 AM.

[patarok]

hm...
looking at the latest improvments in vector- a.o. A.I. based image upscaling...
ya'll can take a look here:
Adobe Photoshop's 'Super Resolution' Made My Jaw Hit the Floor

...I would say, demanding more than 45MP for a FF follow up to the K-1 is totally ridiculous.
There are so many semi-pros and much more hobbyists among us pentaxians...

My guess is:
Upping the resolution to a point of total ridiculousness,
and for the sake of cost leaving out many other features** that would make everybody have a good time with their camera
will make the K-1(I/II) successor just one thing:
Roadkill.

I would be totally satisfied if the follow up would just offer way more beefier Autofocus, nice video,
a rugged body that doesnt suffer from childish design attempts.
I dont even need battery eating gps or nfc and whatnot
I dont need a dozen multiwheels,
I dont need a touchscreen that may be good fo nothin under harsh outdoor conditions...
I dont need a 1000MP sensor that makes the camera cost like a A1

A memory media option wih one CFExpress and one UHS-II SD slot,
a stills framerate about 14fps,
a large and bright viewfinder,
a moonlander display,
a focus thumbstick in
a rugged chassis that is built like a tank,
a tether shooting plugin for lightroom to it,
would sell a multitude more units

...than just fitting 50MP+ sensor in a body with "feint-features" or do you really believe there is a universe where
a FF Pentax follow up to the K-1romanwhatever with app. 60-80MP would be something else than a
straight DEATHBLOW to the brand and all its fans??

Its not that 50MP could not mean an advantage(especially for pros -- but hey, how much of us do it really at a pro level to make their income on it???)
its just that the biz-leadership-guys at ricoh would long for a pricetag way above 3000 bucks for such a camera that I swear to you.

And you just have to listen closely to all the guys who already say "2000 bucks for a pentax thats specs are a tit below all competitors<which cost a bit less>"
despite the K-3III alone for its viewfinder, new AF and 12fps actually should be worth it... Actually everybody should be blown away but it doesnt seem like.
(and I am pretty sure there will be a lot of bottom-fermented posts of jump-shippers until a plastic fantastic sibling to the K-3III will save the day...)
So what do you think will happen if PENTAX brings a FF follow up with 75MP for about 4000-5000 bucks?

Or do you think the guys in japan will go and say "hey we are having a good time here,
corona crisis is ruining world economics, lets build a 75MP camera for 2000 bucks...
LOL ... in which world should that imagination become reality? pls explain.

My good guess is the 32MP version would keep a lot more people in PENTAX/DSLR-Land than some soggy megapixel dream.

I would even go so far and say a FAST ENOUGH 24-26MP Full Frame in a plastic but rugged body without movable display or any fancy stuff
that is just a joy to shoot and offers tethered shooting...
could sell way more units than your hot megapixel dreamgal of a cam.
I would even spend up to 1600 bucks for such a camera immediately! (that one would not even need to offer multi-res shooting.. no! just pure camera!)

The only thing missing for such a cheap follow up to be a success would be modern affordable 24-70 and 70-200mil FF lenses since the
old caleidoscope tubes will not win ANY popularity contest. and all other lens options for FF despite the 28-105 (why in gods name is this actually not a 28-135?)
are rather expensive.
*or just one affordable 28-300mil (for all i care even a cheap PENTAX rebranded Tamron 28-300mm F/3.5-6.3 Di VC PZD would save the day)

[texandrews]

...I would say, demanding more than 45MP for a FF follow up to the K-1 is totally ridiculous.
There are so many semi-pros and much more hobbyists among us pentaxians...

Just a point of order on this particular aspect: since Pentax does not make sensors, and are currently dependent on Sony for their sensors, they will take what Sony sensor is available to them, irrespective of whether you believe it to be ridiculous.

A curiosity question: are you related to beetee? Because your posting styles are remarkably similar in style and affect. Or does the formal style/formatting have to do with using a mobile device for posting?

[SFTphotography]

Just a point of order on this particular aspect: since Pentax does not make sensors, and are currently dependent on Sony for their sensors, they will take what Sony sensor is available to them, irrespective of whether you believe it to be ridiculous.

They are - and the 45mp one is 4yrs old. It's good...but there are two newer BSI 50mp and 60mp sensors available which make more sense. To me either of those seem a logical choice.

[repaap]

It would be very logical way to go for those new 50/60 Mp BSI sensors. Seems tan Pentax can handle them well

[SFTphotography]

It would be very logical way to go for those new 50/60 Mp BSI sensors. Seems tan Pentax can handle them well

If they do...I might get one. It's soon going to be hard to get a new DSLR camera.

[repaap]

If they do...I might get one. It's soon going to be hard to get a new DSLR camera.

I will get this K-3III and K-1 with 50 or 60 MP sensor would be great pair to that. I have K-1 already, and it is ready to be retiered to be as a spare camera.

[SFTphotography]

I will get this K-3III and K-1 with 50 or 60 MP sensor would be great pair to that. I have K-1 already, and it is ready to be retiered to be as a spare camera.

If they don't - there's always the 645z - I love mine but a FF camera for longer reach subjects is more practical.

[repaap]

If they don't - there's always the 645z - I love mine but a FF camera for longer reach subjects is more practical.

I’m still dreaming of 645 line. Good thing about that kind of combo would be matching lens mount and possibility to get very high res from other and speed from the other. I was looking at Sigma fp L review as that is one of rumoured sensors for the next FF. that did look very nice and it is a pity that fp L is a bit awkward to see what it really could be. I believe that Pentax can top that .