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12-11-2022, 09:29 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It's going to be extremely difficult if the camera in question doesn't offer ISO 32 as an option. At the moment it isn't something Pentax offers, but they have offered other ways to get what ISO 32 gives.
A reminder, this is Pentax forums.
Not to mention, that in my experience shooting 32 ISO is a chore not to be undertaken by those with short attention spans. If the D850 DR was calculated at 32 ISO, then by the time it gets to 100 ISO, it's going to be down 1.5 stops. I'd see if I could find something, but, I can't be bothered.

The reason for 32 ISO in my experiences is for the incredibly fine grain and therefore the ability to make larger prints. So often it was used for copying documents etc. 36 MP already has that covered.

12-11-2022, 10:17 AM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Not to mention, that in my experience shooting 32 ISO is a chore not to be undertaken by those with short attention spans. If the D850 DR was calculated at 32 ISO, then by the time it gets to 100 ISO, it's going to be down 1.5 stops. I'd see if I could find something, but, I can't be bothered.

The reason for 32 ISO in my experiences is for the incredibly fine grain and therefore the ability to make larger prints. So often it was used for copying documents etc. 36 MP already has that covered.
During my 4x5 film days I decided to try a box of PanF, which in my shooting conditions ended up being something like an ISO 8 film. The results were splendid, but the exposures were painfully long, sometimes as much as an hour for a fairly simple landscape shot.

Many time the light changed noticeably during the exposure, which sometimes made for odd outcomes. There is nothing quite like trying to time a many minute exposure with the sun behind a cloud only to realize as the last few seconds tick off that one has misjudged how fast that cloud is moving.....

Really low ISOs aren't necessarily the panacea that they are made out to be. Everything compromises everything else. ISO 32 might take you from ISO 100 hand holdable to needing a tripod, for example. It might take you from a nice crisp sky to one where cloud movement is discernable, possibly objectionably so.
12-11-2022, 11:45 AM   #78
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QuoteQuote:
ISO 32 might take you from ISO 100 hand holdable to needing a tripod,
Personally I've shot about 3 rolls of 32 ISO film in my 65 years of shooting. I wouldn't buy a camera for it, nor would I take it into consideration of what camera to buy. With film, it is worth a few rolls just for the experience Buying digital camera for it? I don't think so. But if it came on camera I liked for other reasons, I wouldn't complain. My suspicion is it's much more impressive on film where you get 16x20 performance on 35mm film with the super fine grain. On digital, the sensor pixels are the same size. All the downers with none of the uppers.

Last edited by normhead; 12-11-2022 at 11:56 AM.
12-11-2022, 11:59 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
does anyone actually buy a camera just to use for landscape?
Me, though having got it I do use it for other things.

12-11-2022, 12:18 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This is an HDR image:



This is also an HDR image:



This is not an HDR image:



Is it HDR or tone mapping you don't like?
Sure. What bother me are overly aggressive processing, regardless of whether it comes through HDR or through pushing sliders a little too hard in post. Halos and sharpening artifacts are just a couple of things that bother me when I see them in an image.

I tend to associate some of those things with the tone mapping that comes with certain HDR processing, but it can happen without HDR.
12-11-2022, 06:50 PM   #81
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I recently bought 10 rolls of Kodak Panatomic-X and I'm almost finished with the first roll. ISO 32 has been quite helpful for using large apertures like f/1.2 and 1.4 on older cameras where the max shutter speed is 1/1000 second.
12-20-2022, 06:12 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by 4Vn_Shotter Quote
Dear all

I'm looking for a still camera mostly for landscape.


I currently have D500 + 150-600mm for birds and am happy with it. I also have the 17-55mm 2.8 as it comes from the previous owner but I have no intention to keep it long. I have K70, I got it long ago when it was introduced with a kit lens Pentax-DA 18-135mm. I have a few other Pentax lenses but not a high-end one.

I plan to keep D500 for birds and get a camera for landscape. What do you think about Pentax K1 II vs Nikon D850? it may sound silly to have to cameras from two brands in the bag but I would not have any common lens to share between them.

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Getting back to this topic, there was a video put out by someone who regularly compares actual images taken using lenses and cameras of different makes. I can't recall his name, but he did this comparing identical images taken with the Nikon D850 and the Pentax K-1 or K-1 II, and the result was in favor of the Pentax camera for better overall IQ.

Ah, it was "CameraVille" on youtube! Find the one comparing sensor quality between the Sony 7r III, the Nikon D850, and the Pentax K-1 and you will be amazed!!


Last edited by mikesbike; 12-20-2022 at 07:11 PM.
12-20-2022, 07:20 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Getting back to this topic, there was a video put out by someone who regularly compares actual images taken using lenses and cameras of different makes. I can't recall his name, but he did this comparing identical images taken with the Nikon D850 and the Pentax K-1 or K-1 II, and the result was in favor of the Pentax camera for better overall IQ.

Ah, it was "CameraVille" on youtube! Find the one comparing sensor quality between the Sony 7r III, the Nikon D850, and the Pentax K-1 and you will be amazed!!
I believe it was done before Cameraville, in the fall of 2017, and it was only the D850 vs the Pentax K1 (original), That Youtube video is no longer available for public viewing. No idea why.

But you are correct that the evidence he presented put the K1 slightly ahead of the D850 in image quality. Cameraville came to the same conclusion when he did his own tests in early 2018.
12-20-2022, 10:21 PM - 1 Like   #84
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The Cameraville “tests“ are very subjective. Additionally the use of the Samyang 14 as the benchmark is questionable as it is well known that on wide angles the adapter precision must be extremely high or the borders and corners suffer. On the other hand - using the same lens is a smart way to reduce other variables.
12-30-2022, 03:00 AM   #85
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Well, I now understand there are other serious issues with his test methods. I just took a look at the comparisons on the Image Resource Comparometer, between the Nikon D850, the Pentax K-1 II, and the 61mp Sony a7r V. See my comments in the Pentax K-1 III thread.
01-03-2023, 05:19 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by 4Vn_Shotter Quote
Dear all

I'm looking for a still camera mostly for landscape.


I currently have D500 + 150-600mm for birds and am happy with it. I also have the 17-55mm 2.8 as it comes from the previous owner but I have no intention to keep it long. I have K70, I got it long ago when it was introduced with a kit lens Pentax-DA 18-135mm. I have a few other Pentax lenses but not a high-end one.

I plan to keep D500 for birds and get a camera for landscape. What do you think about Pentax K1 II vs Nikon D850? it may sound silly to have to cameras from two brands in the bag but I would not have any common lens to share between them.

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Why a D850 - not a MILC??
From the eyes of Nikon folk, the D850 is ‘old tech’.
01-03-2023, 06:18 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Why a D850 - not a MILC??
From the eyes of Nikon folk, the D850 is ‘old tech’.
From SOME Nikon owners. For others they've determined just the opposite, that the D850 is a better fit-for-purpose than for instance the Z7II or even the Z9.
Would you get a Z7ii now or wait? Coming from D850 - FM Forums
01-03-2023, 06:48 AM - 1 Like   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
From SOME Nikon owners. For others they've determined just the opposite, that the D850 is a better fit-for-purpose than for instance the Z7II or even the Z9.
Would you get a Z7ii now or wait? Coming from D850 - FM Forums
I as well have met Nikon owners completely happy with their D850s. It gets tiring hearing what people think "everyone thinks" as justification for their unsupported opinions. Personally, I'd accept nothing less than a poll on a Nikon forum, and it would have to be over 90% in favour of mirrorless before I'd suggest DSLRs are in danger. Nothing I've seen supports anything higher than a 60/40 split, and no one in their right mind is going to give up 40% of their market for the mostly religious type reasons for going mirrorless. When I start seeing better images from mirrorless than I could get with my DSLR for the images I shoot, I'll be more interested.

I find it interesting how, the phone people have completely redefined advances in tech, in such a way that much of the tech is miles ahead of what the camera makers are doing or capable of. My iPhone has 4 high efficiency and 2 high performance cores, and 128 GB of internal storage. Just in terms of raw processing power, it leaves cameras in the dust. I wonder what the results would be if Apple or Google bought Pentax or another smaller company and applied the amount of engineering that goes into a modern phones to dedicated camera tech. What would they could come up with? But it's pretty clear, phones currently dominate imaging tech. even though many of us have needs that go beyond phone tech. and will still look for solutions to other image issues currently unaddressed by phones, like telephoto. At this point, ignoring the utility of phones is just not an option. Personally, I'm not selling my DSLRs...but a phone will be my "I don't have a camera with me anxiety" pill, replacing my ZS100 for that use. That bolstered by looking at my images, and realizing I have not one ZS100 image, I couldn't have taken with my phone. Yet after three days of shooting, already, I have images taken with my iPhone, I could not have taken with my ZS100 based on the 14mm equivalent super wide option on the phone, and the lack of useful telephoto images taken with the ZS100.

Last edited by normhead; 01-03-2023 at 08:12 AM.
01-03-2023, 01:37 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Why a D850 - not a MILC??
From the eyes of Nikon folk, the D850 is ‘old tech’.
Friend, just pull your head out of the YouTube gear channels for a day or two and breathe fresh air. You'll be better for it.
01-03-2023, 03:05 PM - 2 Likes   #90
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Interesting conversation with my local camera store owner a couple of hours ago, an official dealer for Canon and Nikon. While I was there I thought I'd ask to hold a D850 as I never have touched one before. He didn't have any. So I asked if he ever gets used ones in and could he let me know. "I just got a couple of Z6II's in from Nikon and one Z7II so I might get one traded in. But the good flagship DSLR's I get like the D850, from trade-ins and stuff, are being snapped up by people who got a mirrorless and now want to go back to a DSLR."
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