Pentax K-3 Video Discussion

FullertonImages · 10-08-2013, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Good point. Maybe a GH3 is a better solution for your needs. I've got the GH2 and have run for 2+ hours without overheating.

Why do mirrorless cameras seem immune to this? Is it just keeping the mirror up that causes so much heat buildup? If so, you would think there could just be a simple MLU mechanism. I always assumed it was jus sensor heat, but if mirrorless don't have the issue, then it can't be that.

jogiba · 10-08-2013, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Sony? They'd only affect their $6K camcorder if they stuck 4K video into their DSLRs. That's a good point though...they value video highly as well and control their own sensors and DSLR bodies, so they could very well beat Panasonic to the punch by putting it in their own DSLRs or into Olympus' since they own a big piece of Olympus.

I mentioned BMC because they innovated by offering 4K RAW video to prosumers first (RED initially did, but they're out of the price range of most people :-) and their video has great DR as a result (much better than most DSLRs except for the hacked 5DmkIII RAW).

I don't think they would worry about putting 4K in their E mount still cameras hurting sales on the E mount 4K NEX-FS700R that cost three times as much as the new full frame E mount cameras coming out this month.

fuent104 · 10-08-2013, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Pentax has done nicely to bring their video up to par finally, but it really is just up to par w/ Nikon IMHO. Canon/Sony/Panny has 1080/60p already and they're ahead of Nikon.

Based on the spec sheet, I'd agree with you. There is certainly more to an image than specs, though. The question is, how does the image look? Sadly, for Pentax, even if the image looks better than the image from a Canon dslr, there is nothing sexy enough about the announcement to draw users away from Canon. Unless the lack of AA filter makes the image MUCH more sharp than the Canon dslr image (which I hope it does). Dynamic range, bit depth, and color sampling are all important factors, too, and I don't think we've seen the specs on them. For example, if the K-3 shoots 10-bit moving images, I can see that as something that would draw some attention.

I think it's interesting that the Panasonic GH2 and GH3 get so much attention on blogs and website. I live in Los Angeles, and everyone I know is a filmmaker. I have literally spoken to one person ever who owned a GH2. I've never spoken to anyone who owns a GH3. I don't know anyone who has ever mentioned considered purchasing either of them. This isn't a knock on the products, but I think it's odd that these cameras are often mentioned as major players in the market, but my personal anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. I recognize that this is not scientifically valid.

Dear John Carlson, if you are listening. Magic Lantern is a realy wonderful filmmaking tool. A lot of us would love to have similar functionality on our Pentax DSLRs. Magic Lantern is one of the reasons I bought a Canon 60D instead of a Pentax DSLR for video. I applaud you for the increased attention to video features, though.

kenyee · 10-08-2013, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

I think it's interesting that the Panasonic GH2 and GH3 get so much attention on blogs and website. I live in Los Angeles, and everyone I know is a filmmaker. I have literally spoken to one person ever who owned a GH2. I've never spoken to anyone who owns a GH3. I don't know anyone who has ever mentioned considered purchasing either of them.

Wow. That I didn't expect. What do you see in L.A. then? Canikon?

fuent104 · 10-08-2013, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

I mentioned BMC because they innovated by offering 4K RAW video to prosumers first (RED initially did, but they're out of the price range of most people :-) and their video has great DR as a result (much better than most DSLRs except for the hacked 5DmkIII RAW).

The 4K model of the BMCC has not been released yet, although they are currently accepting money for it. Their 2K model has great dynamic range, though, either in its RAW shooting mode, or its 10-bit ProRes and DNxHD formats.

fuent104 · 10-08-2013, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Wow. That I didn't expect. What do you see in L.A. then? Canikon?

Canon, by a landslide.

FullertonImages · 10-08-2013, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

Canon, by a landslide.

Yeah, it's interesting. In the interwebs, you would think that lots of brands are being used. But Canon did the best job of catering to real filmmakers very early on, and then more people started using it, and then all the accessory companies started making the most stuff for Canon, and now it's so much harder to get other brands supported and it becomes thing big self-perpetuating cycle. I think in the novice, amateur or photography world, it's easy to think that it's relatively even. But when you look closely at people who are specifically filmmakers, not photographers, and who are truly professional, it's about 99.5% Canon (at least in terms of DSLR use). The people I know who use non-canon cameras for filmmaking are all people who are predominantly photographers or transition from photography, and already were using another brand.

Canon just came out of the gate really strong and fast and immediately started appealing to true filmmakers. I think we'll see the field starting to level out a bit, with other brands being considered more and more for filmmaking. I know the D800 has been making a lot of waves, and I really think the K-3 will get a lot more attention in the adventure filmmaking communities, know that it has the features the K-5 was missing.

johnmflores · 10-08-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by FullertonImages

Why do mirrorless cameras seem immune to this? Is it just keeping the mirror up that causes so much heat buildup? If so, you would think there could just be a simple MLU mechanism. I always assumed it was jus sensor heat, but if mirrorless don't have the issue, then it can't be that.

I think that it has more to do with effective heat management of the GH cameras than any aspect of a flopping mirror TBH.

johnmflores · 10-08-2013, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

Canon, by a landslide.

Originally posted by FullertonImages

Yeah, it's interesting. In the interwebs, you would think that lots of brands are being used. But Canon did the best job of catering to real filmmakers very early on, and then more people started using it, and then all the accessory companies started making the most stuff for Canon, and now it's so much harder to get other brands supported and it becomes thing big self-perpetuating cycle. I think in the novice, amateur or photography world, it's easy to think that it's relatively even. But when you look closely at people who are specifically filmmakers, not photographers, and who are truly professional, it's about 99.5% Canon (at least in terms of DSLR use). The people I know who use non-canon cameras for filmmaking are all people who are predominantly photographers or transition from photography, and already were using another brand.

Canon just came out of the gate really strong and fast and immediately started appealing to true filmmakers. I think we'll see the field starting to level out a bit, with other brands being considered more and more for filmmaking. I know the D800 has been making a lot of waves, and I really think the K-3 will get a lot more attention in the adventure filmmaking communities, know that it has the features the K-5 was missing.

I see the same in the metro New York area-Canon by a wide margin. Panasonic GH cameras are the underdog for sure, and they didn't help themselves with availability issues when the GH1 and GH2 were first released. They get a lot of play on the Internets because of the hacks and such.

Pentax has a ways to go, and while the K-3 seems to have some nice video features, it really is just catching up. I was hoping that they'd make some waves with RAW video, but alas that's not to be.

I blogged about this yesterday - What Blog is This?: Pentax K-3: Can it Capture the Hearts and Minds of Budding Cinematographers?

fuent104 · 10-08-2013, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

I blogged about this yesterday

Great blog. Outside of something really really groundbreaking, such as RAW motion picture capture, I think it's going to take more than specs for Pentax to become a hot topic. In addition to the quality of the Canon products, they began things by going to a Pulitzer winning journalist, and an ASC cinematographer was one of their early champions.

One step would be to make the K-3 and some lenses available to film schools at a price they simply can't refuse. The school at which I work uses the 5D Mark II and Mark III very extensively. I would imagine other film and photography schools do, too. This would get the camera into the hands of people who could use it.

bobmaxja · 10-08-2013, 04:50 PM

Canon already make brodcast equipment , they know the market .

johnmflores · 10-08-2013, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by bobmaxja

Canon already make brodcast equipment , they know the market .

But so do Panasonic and Sony. Canon is doing something right, righter than the other two.

bobmaxja · 10-08-2013, 07:09 PM

I was comparing to Pentax, they do not get involve in these business. . I was taking about the comment from fuent104

Alizarine · 10-08-2013, 07:34 PM - **1 Like**

Now what if Ricoh buys Magic Lantern and come out with a video-inclined prosumer K-02... (without the Marc Newson touch, alright)?

fuent104 · 10-08-2013, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by bobmaxja

I was comparing to Pentax, they do not get involve in these business. . I was taking about the comment from fuent104

I don't understand this line of thought, at all. Had you heard of RED, Go Pro, or Black Magic Cinema Camera 6 years ago? Just because they haven't worked in the video field in the past does not mean they can't moving forward. The K1000 is said to have been popular among photography classes in the past (I've never seen this first -hand).

Innovative leaders don't shy away from entering markets just because they haven't participated in them in the past.

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10-08-2013, 12:27 PM	#121
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	Originally posted by johnmflores Good point. Maybe a GH3 is a better solution for your needs. I've got the GH2 and have run for 2+ hours without overheating. Why do mirrorless cameras seem immune to this? Is it just keeping the mirror up that causes so much heat buildup? If so, you would think there could just be a simple MLU mechanism. I always assumed it was jus sensor heat, but if mirrorless don't have the issue, then it can't be that.

10-08-2013, 12:56 PM	#122
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by kenyee Sony? They'd only affect their $6K camcorder if they stuck 4K video into their DSLRs. That's a good point though...they value video highly as well and control their own sensors and DSLR bodies, so they could very well beat Panasonic to the punch by putting it in their own DSLRs or into Olympus' since they own a big piece of Olympus. I mentioned BMC because they innovated by offering 4K RAW video to prosumers first (RED initially did, but they're out of the price range of most people :-) and their video has great DR as a result (much better than most DSLRs except for the hacked 5DmkIII RAW). I don't think they would worry about putting 4K in their E mount still cameras hurting sales on the E mount 4K NEX-FS700R that cost three times as much as the new full frame E mount cameras coming out this month.

10-08-2013, 01:09 PM	#123
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by kenyee Pentax has done nicely to bring their video up to par finally, but it really is just up to par w/ Nikon IMHO. Canon/Sony/Panny has 1080/60p already and they're ahead of Nikon. Based on the spec sheet, I'd agree with you. There is certainly more to an image than specs, though. The question is, how does the image look? Sadly, for Pentax, even if the image looks better than the image from a Canon dslr, there is nothing sexy enough about the announcement to draw users away from Canon. Unless the lack of AA filter makes the image MUCH more sharp than the Canon dslr image (which I hope it does). Dynamic range, bit depth, and color sampling are all important factors, too, and I don't think we've seen the specs on them. For example, if the K-3 shoots 10-bit moving images, I can see that as something that would draw some attention. I think it's interesting that the Panasonic GH2 and GH3 get so much attention on blogs and website. I live in Los Angeles, and everyone I know is a filmmaker. I have literally spoken to one person ever who owned a GH2. I've never spoken to anyone who owns a GH3. I don't know anyone who has ever mentioned considered purchasing either of them. This isn't a knock on the products, but I think it's odd that these cameras are often mentioned as major players in the market, but my personal anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. I recognize that this is not scientifically valid. Dear John Carlson, if you are listening. Magic Lantern is a realy wonderful filmmaking tool. A lot of us would love to have similar functionality on our Pentax DSLRs. Magic Lantern is one of the reasons I bought a Canon 60D instead of a Pentax DSLR for video. I applaud you for the increased attention to video features, though.

10-08-2013, 01:15 PM	#124
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by fuent104 I think it's interesting that the Panasonic GH2 and GH3 get so much attention on blogs and website. I live in Los Angeles, and everyone I know is a filmmaker. I have literally spoken to one person ever who owned a GH2. I've never spoken to anyone who owns a GH3. I don't know anyone who has ever mentioned considered purchasing either of them. Wow. That I didn't expect. What do you see in L.A. then? Canikon?

10-08-2013, 01:18 PM	#125
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by kenyee I mentioned BMC because they innovated by offering 4K RAW video to prosumers first (RED initially did, but they're out of the price range of most people :-) and their video has great DR as a result (much better than most DSLRs except for the hacked 5DmkIII RAW). The 4K model of the BMCC has not been released yet, although they are currently accepting money for it. Their 2K model has great dynamic range, though, either in its RAW shooting mode, or its 10-bit ProRes and DNxHD formats.

10-08-2013, 01:19 PM	#126
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by kenyee Wow. That I didn't expect. What do you see in L.A. then? Canikon? Canon, by a landslide.

10-08-2013, 01:56 PM	#127
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	Originally posted by fuent104 Canon, by a landslide. Yeah, it's interesting. In the interwebs, you would think that lots of brands are being used. But Canon did the best job of catering to real filmmakers very early on, and then more people started using it, and then all the accessory companies started making the most stuff for Canon, and now it's so much harder to get other brands supported and it becomes thing big self-perpetuating cycle. I think in the novice, amateur or photography world, it's easy to think that it's relatively even. But when you look closely at people who are specifically filmmakers, not photographers, and who are truly professional, it's about 99.5% Canon (at least in terms of DSLR use). The people I know who use non-canon cameras for filmmaking are all people who are predominantly photographers or transition from photography, and already were using another brand. Canon just came out of the gate really strong and fast and immediately started appealing to true filmmakers. I think we'll see the field starting to level out a bit, with other brands being considered more and more for filmmaking. I know the D800 has been making a lot of waves, and I really think the K-3 will get a lot more attention in the adventure filmmaking communities, know that it has the features the K-5 was missing.

10-08-2013, 02:17 PM	#128
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361 Original Poster	Originally posted by FullertonImages Why do mirrorless cameras seem immune to this? Is it just keeping the mirror up that causes so much heat buildup? If so, you would think there could just be a simple MLU mechanism. I always assumed it was jus sensor heat, but if mirrorless don't have the issue, then it can't be that. I think that it has more to do with effective heat management of the GH cameras than any aspect of a flopping mirror TBH.

10-08-2013, 02:23 PM	#129
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361 Original Poster	Originally posted by fuent104 Canon, by a landslide. Originally posted by FullertonImages Yeah, it's interesting. In the interwebs, you would think that lots of brands are being used. But Canon did the best job of catering to real filmmakers very early on, and then more people started using it, and then all the accessory companies started making the most stuff for Canon, and now it's so much harder to get other brands supported and it becomes thing big self-perpetuating cycle. I think in the novice, amateur or photography world, it's easy to think that it's relatively even. But when you look closely at people who are specifically filmmakers, not photographers, and who are truly professional, it's about 99.5% Canon (at least in terms of DSLR use). The people I know who use non-canon cameras for filmmaking are all people who are predominantly photographers or transition from photography, and already were using another brand. Canon just came out of the gate really strong and fast and immediately started appealing to true filmmakers. I think we'll see the field starting to level out a bit, with other brands being considered more and more for filmmaking. I know the D800 has been making a lot of waves, and I really think the K-3 will get a lot more attention in the adventure filmmaking communities, know that it has the features the K-5 was missing. I see the same in the metro New York area-Canon by a wide margin. Panasonic GH cameras are the underdog for sure, and they didn't help themselves with availability issues when the GH1 and GH2 were first released. They get a lot of play on the Internets because of the hacks and such. Pentax has a ways to go, and while the K-3 seems to have some nice video features, it really is just catching up. I was hoping that they'd make some waves with RAW video, but alas that's not to be. I blogged about this yesterday - What Blog is This?: Pentax K-3: Can it Capture the Hearts and Minds of Budding Cinematographers?

10-08-2013, 03:38 PM	#130
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by johnmflores I blogged about this yesterday Great blog. Outside of something really really groundbreaking, such as RAW motion picture capture, I think it's going to take more than specs for Pentax to become a hot topic. In addition to the quality of the Canon products, they began things by going to a Pulitzer winning journalist, and an ASC cinematographer was one of their early champions. One step would be to make the K-3 and some lenses available to film schools at a price they simply can't refuse. The school at which I work uses the 5D Mark II and Mark III very extensively. I would imagine other film and photography schools do, too. This would get the camera into the hands of people who could use it.

10-08-2013, 04:50 PM	#131
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Canon already make brodcast equipment , they know the market .

10-08-2013, 05:01 PM	#132
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361 Original Poster	Originally posted by bobmaxja Canon already make brodcast equipment , they know the market . But so do Panasonic and Sony. Canon is doing something right, righter than the other two.

10-08-2013, 07:09 PM	#133
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	I was comparing to Pentax, they do not get involve in these business. . I was taking about the comment from fuent104

10-08-2013, 07:34 PM - 1 Like	#134
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Now what if Ricoh buys Magic Lantern and come out with a video-inclined prosumer K-02... (without the Marc Newson touch, alright)?

10-08-2013, 11:47 PM	#135
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by bobmaxja I was comparing to Pentax, they do not get involve in these business. . I was taking about the comment from fuent104 I don't understand this line of thought, at all. Had you heard of RED, Go Pro, or Black Magic Cinema Camera 6 years ago? Just because they haven't worked in the video field in the past does not mean they can't moving forward. The K1000 is said to have been popular among photography classes in the past (I've never seen this first -hand). Innovative leaders don't shy away from entering markets just because they haven't participated in them in the past.