[Parallax]

If someone told me a gun was safe I would expect them to prove it rather than just tell me.

Personally, I would check it myself and give no credence to what someone else told me.

[robtcorl]

I taught my kids that guns are always loaded and never to be pointed anywhere near another person, or anything they don't plan to shoot.
There is no excuse for a real gun, with live ammo, to ever be on a movie or tv set. I wonder if Baldwin had ever fired a real gun before.

[bertwert]

Personally, I would check it myself and give no credence to what someone else told me.

Absolutely! Should be instinctive for anyone who has to handle a weapon.

[MarkJerling]

Personally, I would check it myself and give no credence to what someone else told me.

Same here. I was taught that you check a firearm for safety when it is handed to you and again by you when handing it on to someone else. That person checks it upon receipt and when handing it on etc.

Having said that, on a movie set firearm safety is the responsibility of the set armorer. That person normally checks firearms before handing said firearms to an actor. Most actors would not check the firearm themselves and many would not know how to.

There should not be any live rounds on a movie set - ever. Even rounds which look like live unfired rounds, for, for instance loading scenes, would be rounds with the firing charge removed and the projectiles reinserted. I've worked on enough movie sets (but not as an armorer) to know that's how it works. Actors should never be near live ammunition.

I've been on movie sets where the main actor has to drive a car and some of them are barely capable of doing that. Trusting an actor with a live firearm would be pretty stupid. Someone is to blame for this tragedy but it's probably not Alec Baldwin. The law may not see it that way, of course.

[Racer X 69]

I know this will come as a shock to most of you, but I can be a bit opinionated. No, really, it's true.
Now, having said that, I am on the fence here with regard to Alec Baldwin's responsibility.
I have been an avid shooter for over 50 years. I have been in law enforcement in the military, I've been a sworn peace officer here in South Dakota and carried a sidearm professionally and privately for many, many years. I'm not a stranger to firearms and firearms safety. Here's my conundrum with this issue:
Alec Baldwin pointed a gun at someone, pulled the trigger, and someone is dead.
OTH
There were people who were paid to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't happen. Apparently incompetent people; so who is at fault? The paid "professionals" who said the gun was safe, or the guy who pulled the trigger?
I'm conflicted, and that almost never happens.

My feelings are pretty much the same.

My dad taught me how to handle guns at an early age. I have been handling guns since I was 5 years old. My first gun was a 16 gage breech load shotgun, dad gave me for my 11th birthday. I still have it, and several other rifles and pistols. I purchased a real safe over 30 years ago, and keep all but one gun in it (I keep a small revolver tucked away in an easy to access location for personal security).

Always treat any firearm as if it is loaded. Even if you have personally checked the chamber, barrel and magazine, and you know it is clear, still treat it as if it has live ammunition in it.

Never point a weapon at anyone, even if you know it is empty, unless you are ready to kill that person.

Ever.

And never take anyone's word that a gun is unloaded, check it yourself.

Whenever I show someone one of my guns, I remove the magazine and clear the chamber, or if a revolver, open the cylinder and remove the shells, then hand it to them butt first.


I thought that movie prop guns were guns that had been permanently made so a projectile (such as a bullet) could not pass through the barrel. Understanding the need for realism in movies and TV shows, using real guns, or realistic non functional copies, is part of the costumes and props that make the scenes believeable.

Still, the requirements of proper gun safety cannot be ignored.

If it were I who had been in Mr. Baldwin's shoes, I would have opened the cylinder and checked the rounds to be absolutely positive that it contained only blanks.

So in that regard, I feel he has the ultimate responsibility for the death of the woman, and the injury to the other person.

[Parallax]

If it were I who had been in Mr. Baldwin's shoes, I would have opened the cylinder and checked the rounds to be absolutely positive that it contained only blanks.

Your point is taken, however, they were shooting a Western so the gun was likely a Single Action Army type. The cylinder doesn't open. He would need to open the loading gate and remove the rounds one by one to check them.
Unreasonable? I don't know. As I said above, I'm conflicted in this case.
Perhaps the answer for the future is to make the actors responsible for loading their own rather than prop people, particularly incompetent prop people doing it.
There are other possibilities to consider here. Defective ammunition, mis-marked ammunition, etc. We don't have all of the facts yet.

[robtcorl]

Here's how a "prop" gun killed Brandon Lee, Bruce Lee's son:

"While filming The Crow, Brandon was hit by a .44 calibre slug while filming a death scene. The gun was meant to be filled with blank rounds, but autopsy revealed a real bullet that entered his body near his spine. It was later determined that the gun used had earlier fired a round that caused a cartridge to become lodged in the barrel. When blank rounds were later fired, the cartridge was dislodged and released."
Bruce Lee’s son Brandon was killed in prop gun shoot, family comments after Alec Baldwin incident | Entertainment News,The Indian Express

[robtcorl]

I really hate waking up the vehicle topic, but here's what's happening in India;

"The transport department of the Delhi government has announced that owners found plying diesel vehicles above the age of 10 years and petrol vehicles above 15 years will now be liable to pay a fine of Rs 10.000, and also have their vehicles impounded or scrapped. This new announcement comes as a follow-up to the recently announced scrappage policy that incentivizes the scrapping of older vehicles, in an attempt to battle the national capital’s overwhelming pollution problems."
I looked up the conversion and it's $133.41 USD.

[Racer X 69]

I really hate waking up the vehicle topic, but here's what's happening in India;

"The transport department of the Delhi government has announced that owners found plying diesel vehicles above the age of 10 years and petrol vehicles above 15 years will now be liable to pay a fine of Rs 10.000, and also have their vehicles impounded or scrapped. This new announcement comes as a follow-up to the recently announced scrappage policy that incentivizes the scrapping of older vehicles, in an attempt to battle the national capital’s overwhelming pollution problems."
I looked up the conversion and it's $133.41 USD.

Some years back the US gubmint had a plan to remove older, more polluting vehicles from the roads with a buyback incentive.

Tens of thousands of antique, vintage and classic cars were scrapped, forever changing the collector car scene.

[robtcorl]

Cash for Clunkers, another brilliant failure from our "leaders."

[tim60]

If someone told me a gun was safe I would expect them to prove it rather than just tell me. Of course it is easy to say that with hindsight. Why would they ever use live ammo?

Why not use a replica that cannot fire any size of live ammo. The movie takes pictures of it so it only needs to look the part.

[Racer X 69]

If someone told me a gun was safe I would expect them to prove it rather than just tell me.

After watching another person clear a firearm before handing it to me, I then check it myself, before any other activities, he it simply examining it, or using it on the range.

When finished, I again ensure it is clear, before returning it to the other person.

Handling firearms, real or pretend, always demands certain protocols be followed. If I find myself in a situation where the protocols are not being followed, I make it clear that I am not OK with the behavior, and remove myself from the activities.

Then I go eat some bacon.

[savoche]

Personally, I would check it myself and give no credence to what someone else told me.

After watching another person clear a firearm before handing it to me, I then check it myself, before any other activities, he it simply examining it, or using it on the range.

When finished, I again ensure it is clear, before returning it to the other person.

Indeed. When I grew up my father always demonstrably checked that the gun was unloaded before handing it over, and I always checked again even though I just saw him check. This is the way I still do it. Every time, no matter who did what. Trust nobody, not even the ones you trust.

Then I go eat some bacon.

I good idea, no matter what activity you walk away from.

[lesmore49]

Just read this article regarding the death of the director of photography on the set of the Rust movie.

According to sources...apparently some on the film crew, had been using the gun for plinking...target practice...shooting at cans...before the scene. Here are the details.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/

[MarkJerling]

Just read this article regarding the death of the director of photography on the set of the Rust movie.

According to sources...apparently some on the film crew, had been using the gun for plinking...target practice...shooting at cans...before the scene. Here are the details.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/rust-crew-used-alec-baldwins-prop-gun-for-plinking/

If that's what happened then it's a case of gross negligence on the part of all involved. The armorer should not have allowed it and there should not have been any live rounds anywhere near the film set. Shocking really.