[slartibartfast01]

Yeah, I can hardly wait. The risk with hydrogen is the explosive limits are very wide. Propane is explosive from 2% to 10% in air while hydrogen goes bang between 18% and 59% depending on which source you read. Unlike propane, hydrogen is much lighter than air and disperses easily with ventilation: propane is heavier than air and lies in low-level areas with or without ventilation. Propane still scares the willies outta me.

I also found two totally contradictory views concerning viability of hydrogen in homes

"Existing Gas infrastructure can be used*

One of the biggest benefits of hydrogen is that it only means changing to fuel supply, so it is much easier and quicker to roll out nationwide. It also avoids the costs and learning curve of households adopting completely new heating systems."

Contrast with

"The cost of converting the natural gas grid to run on 100% H2*would also be astronomical, with every compressor and valve on the network needing to replaced, metal pipes switched out with plastic ones (including in people’s homes) to reduce the risk of the far smaller molecule leaking, and three times as much energy required to transport the gas around the grid."

Sources
https://heatable.co.uk/boiler-advice/hydrogen-boilers
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/heating-homes-with-clean-hydr...er/2-1-1078297

[Racer X 69]

It’s actually illegal here to work on gas supplies, equipment or appliances without being trained and qualified to do so. Moreover, liability rests with the last individual to work on an installation - if I leave a job in a dangerous state and there are consequences, I am the poor stiff in the dock once the dust settles. My employer is in trouble too, but the buck will stop with me.

Same here.

You can’t even buy the materials to install them without proper licensing and training.

[tim60]

I find it hard to believe natural gas to hydrogen would be just changing the stuff supplied.

I remember coal gas to natural gas required new burners in appliances because it was different, and petrol to E10 was not compatible with all cars.

[Yaki]

No man can violate the laws of physics. Unlike legal laws.
Well maybe some witches or demigods can - but I doubt they worry about fuel types and their usage.

[CharLac]

Bacon

[Parallax]

propane is heavier than air and lies in low-level areas with or without ventilation. Propane still scares the willies outta me.

What about natural gas? Is it heavier or lighter than air?

[StiffLegged]

I also found two totally contradictory views concerning viability of hydrogen in homes

"Existing Gas infrastructure can be used*

One of the biggest benefits of hydrogen is that it only means changing to fuel supply, so it is much easier and quicker to roll out nationwide. It also avoids the costs and learning curve of households adopting completely new heating systems."

Contrast with

"The cost of converting the natural gas grid to run on 100% H2*would also be astronomical, with every compressor and valve on the network needing to replaced, metal pipes switched out with plastic ones (including in people’s homes) to reduce the risk of the far smaller molecule leaking, and three times as much energy required to transport the gas around the grid."

Sources
Hydrogen Boilers: The future of heating in the UK? | Heatable
Heating homes with clean hydrogen will be 'pretty much impossible', says UK energy minister | Recharge

That’s really funny, because they’re both misleading. Hydrogen will need different sized injectors in appliances: all appliances. It can be done, it was done before in the seventies when the country switched over to methane from town gas, but appliances are mostly more sophisticated now, unlike the old gas fires where you turned on the gas and lit with a match.

The other opinion is ignorant as well as funny: you don’t use plastic pipes in houses or other premises. Plastic is only used to bring a supply to the connection outside. Plastic melts in fires: house fires, school fires, warehouse or factory fires, as any fule kno. So plastic pipes are kept underground and only metal pipes are used in homes. Hydrogen must be pretty amazing stuff to get through copper pipe jointed with soldered fittings.

[StiffLegged]

What about natural gas? Is it heavier or lighter than air?

Methane is lighter than air. It’s terribly good for cooking bacon in a pan!

[robtcorl]

I'm glad we're all electric.

"Nearly half the homes in the U.S. use natural gas for heat, and they could pay an average $746 this winter, 30% more than a year ago. Those in the Midwest could get particularly pinched, with bills up an estimated 49%, and this could be the most expensive winter for natural-gas heated homes since 2008-2009.

The second-most used heating source for homes is electricity, making up 41% of the country, and those households could see a more modest 6% increase to $1,268"
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/new-hampshire/articles/2021-10-13/he...-energy-prices

[slartibartfast01]

That’s really funny, because they’re both misleading. Hydrogen will need different sized injectors in appliances: all appliances. It can be done, it was done before in the seventies when the country switched over to methane from town gas, but appliances are mostly more sophisticated now, unlike the old gas fires where you turned on the gas and lit with a match.



The other opinion is ignorant as well as funny: you don’t use plastic pipes in houses or other premises. Plastic is only used to bring a supply to the connection outside. Plastic melts in fires: house fires, school fires, warehouse or factory fires, as any fule kno. So plastic pipes are kept underground and only metal pipes are used in homes. Hydrogen must be pretty amazing stuff to get through copper pipe jointed with soldered fittings.

If hydrogen burns with an invisible flame it will make using a gas hob interesting

[Parallax]

Nearly half the homes in the U.S. use natural gas for heat, and they could pay an average $746 this winter, 30% more than a year ago. Those in the Midwest could get particularly pinched, with bills up an estimated 49%,

Well aren't you a little ray of sunshine this morning!
Can you guess from that what we heat with?

The good news is that we just had a new furnace put in. The other one was 27 years old. Furnaces don't fail in June or July. For some reason they wait until January or February so we were preemptive and put a new one in. It now seems like really good timing as the new one is not only more efficient, it got us a $300.00 bill credit from the gas company.

[bertwert]

I'm glad we're all electric.

And we're all wood heated. Not at the mercy of electricity or gas prices... but at the mercy of back breaking work every year

[robtcorl]

I do wish we had gas for cooking, you know, like for boiling ribs and such.
In the rural area where we live it's propane only, no NG.

[Parallax]

I do wish we had gas for cooking, you know, like for boiling ribs and such.
In the rural area where we live it's propane only, no NG.

I've wanted a combo range for years. Gas cook top and electric oven seems to me an ideal setup.
Mrs. P likes the idea too,but she just doesn't think it's a big enough benefit to justify the expense. (Notice that I absolutely did NOT say she's a cheapskate. )

[Racer X 69]

My home is heated in winter and cooled in summer with a geothermal system. There are loops in a trench about ten feet deep in which an alcohol solution is circulated. A heat pump in the basement pulls heat from the thermal mass to heat the house and in summer it pulls the heat from the air in the house and sends it to the thermal mass. It also preheats the domestic hot water.

Of course the heat pump requires electricity to operate, as well as the pumps that circulate the alcohol, so when the power goes out the system doesn’t operate.

Part of the design of the house is there is a gas cooktop, and a freestanding fireplace. Since there isn’t a natural gas main nearby, I have a 500 gallon propane tank buried out back. With the power out we can still keep the house warm, cook, and heat water for bathing.

The geothermal system operates at a fraction of the cost of an all electric system, and the domestic hot water preheat feature saves on water heating costs.