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11-21-2017, 08:21 AM - 2 Likes   #42001
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Now, that's a tall story!
...or just an average "Rupert Story"?

---------- Post added 11-21-17 at 09:26 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Now, that's a tall story!
...or just an average "Rupert Story"?

11-21-2017, 12:33 PM   #42002
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
1) The notion of a universal, standard, drop-in, lift-out battery would absolutely solve the problem of long-distance travel with electric cars. Essentially you would exchange batteries at a "filling station," plus a fee to cover the cost of the service and the charging of the battery. Car design would have to be standardized (=when the hood/bonnet is opened the battery is right there, and some kind of power lift would be required as the batteries are and almost certainly will remain far to heavy to be muscled by hand. It would be akin to multiple kinds of hand tools operated by one design of rechargeable battery. I will note that multiple tool manufacturers all use different batteries, just as camera makers cannot agree on one battery design much less one lens-mount design (excepting the semi-successful M42 mount, but is it possible to patent a screw-thread or a registration distance?). A downside: you might be exchanging a brand new battery for one that is how old? Would you be OK with that?
In a Tesla, the battery is part of the floor construction of the car. It's (depending on model) somewhere between 500kg and 900kg. That won't make for easy lifting in and out. From a safety perspective, it's quite well encapsulated to protect from electrocution and offer a degree of safety in fires. It's never going to be an easy lift-out solution.

QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
2) Precisely correct in objecting to the "how often do you drive more than 400 miles" argument. Perhaps I do that only once a year, but do I need to keep an "old technology" gasoline car for that two week period? Must I rent for a trip, which means the local rental agency must offer a fleet of gasoline-powered cars? Perhaps. It would be akin to renting rather than buying an "RV" or "camper."
All it means (currently) is a stop every 200 to 350 miles, depending on which model car you have. Actually, a Tesla Model S has recently gone 901 miles on a single charge, but that's not under normal driving conditions. With technological advancements 400-600 mile range should become more common. I usually stop for lunch on a long trip so, for me, this presents no encumbrance at all.

QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Where I live there's also no VAT for electrical vehicles (25% for dino driven ones), no import tax, no road tax, no congestion fees, and no parking fees. And they can use the bus lanes (with exceptions). Which means that a Tesla Model S will cost about the same as any (slightly expensive) family car, and is cheaper to run.
Now you're talking! We need those concessions everywhere!
11-21-2017, 12:43 PM   #42003
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
Picture!!! Landrovers are probably my favourite cars
Just to confuse you - this one has Honda badges! (They were sold in Japan this way!)
(Note to self - must remember to change out grille - it's the only Honda badge left on it now)
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11-21-2017, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #42004
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Just to confuse you - this one has Honda badges!
I like it! I like those tires too. My girl Kat could spend a day detailing it and it would look as good as my 20 year old Jeep....she is the best at detailing!



Regards!

11-21-2017, 02:44 PM   #42005
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I like it! I like those tires too. My girl Kat could spend a day detailing it and it would look as good as my 20 year old Jeep....she is the best at detailing!



Regards!
Very tidy Jim.
I have a few friends with Wranglers - They're very capable offroad.
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11-21-2017, 02:49 PM - 2 Likes   #42006
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Its all in the wheel articulation.
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11-21-2017, 04:41 PM - 3 Likes   #42007
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Its all in the wheel articulation.
You think that's good? Ever seen a Unimog?



11-21-2017, 05:12 PM - 1 Like   #42008
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
You think that's good? Ever seen a Unimog?
Portal axles and all, those things are SICK!
11-21-2017, 07:28 PM - 2 Likes   #42009
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
You think that's good? Ever seen a Unimog?
I very seriously considered buying one recently. (But I'm too poor - even though they are going cheap at an army auction here)
Added to that the problem that they're too wide for our 4x4 tracks. (Where even the Disco is too wide at times)
The Discovery will do 0.54m articulation. I see that Unimog does 0.68m! That's impressive.

I used to drive one of these in the Army: They would go anywhere!
Magirus Deutz 130M7FAL 4x4


Last edited by MarkJerling; 11-21-2017 at 07:42 PM.
11-21-2017, 07:34 PM - 1 Like   #42010
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Most of the time I drove one of these:
6x6 10 ton truck, with difflock selectable for any of the three differentials.

There was also the armoured version of the same truck.
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11-21-2017, 07:53 PM   #42011
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote

*My HIGH HORSE: the the central problem is TOO MANY PEOPLE, but that will never be addressed because 1) it would interfere with "freedom;" and 2) more importantly, almost all economies, especially the USA, are based on "sustainable growth" = more, and more, and more.
I decided when I was in my 20's that I would not burden the world with more people. At one point I wanted to adopt, as I felt there are plenty of unwanted children in the world, and I could give them a chance at a good life. But my first wife, Mrs. Racer 1.0 turned out to be a poor choice as a mate, and I decided she wasn't fit to be the mother of my children.

By the time I hooked up with Mrs. Racer 2.0, her kids were grown up, and she no longer possessed the desire to have anymore, even if she didn't have to bear them.

*sigh*

Oh well.

Her kids have kids, and they all treat me as part of the family. So I guess I got kids.

And grandkids.

In fact, the oldest grandkid is almost out of high school.

But he hasn't made me a great grandpa yet.
11-21-2017, 08:52 PM   #42012
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
. . . . . . . . we no longer own a car . . . . . . . .
No longer own a car?



Even if I lived in a city I would have to have a car. Getting out of the city as often as possible would be essential, and only doable by owning one.

Public transit only goes so far . . . . . .

QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Things don't look quite the same if you live 500km from your nearest neighbour
The town with the post office for my zip code is 40 klicks Northwest from my home.

There is an other, smaller town about 8 klicks that also has a post office, but it isn't our post code, Southeast of here.

The nearest city, which also has the World's Largest Building, is 52 klicks Southwest.

The mountains are at my doorstep. But I'll drive just the same.
11-21-2017, 09:07 PM   #42013
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I. . . . . . . two hundred stories high, . . . . . . . . .
QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
Now, that's a tall story!

Sorry...
QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
(don't know which of these emojis is laughing the loudest). V-A-V a 200 story building, as several engineers have told me: engineering can do anything given enough money.
Built with lots of Arab oil money.

163 Story Building Is The World's Tallest
11-21-2017, 11:22 PM   #42014
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Comments on two of your posts, both of which hit the nail:

1) The notion of a universal, standard, drop-in, lift-out battery would absolutely solve the problem of long-distance travel with electric cars. Essentially you would exchange batteries at a "filling station," plus a fee to cover the cost of the service and the charging of the battery. Car design would have to be standardized (=when the hood/bonnet is opened the battery is right there, and some kind of power lift would be required as the batteries are and almost certainly will remain far to heavy to be muscled by hand. It would be akin to multiple kinds of hand tools operated by one design of rechargeable battery. I will note that multiple tool manufacturers all use different batteries, just as camera makers cannot agree on one battery design much less one lens-mount design (excepting the semi-successful M42 mount, but is it possible to patent a screw-thread or a registration distance?). A downside: you might be exchanging a brand new battery for one that is how old? Would you be OK with that?

2) Precisely correct in objecting to the "how often do you drive more than 400 miles" argument. Perhaps I do that only once a year, but do I need to keep an "old technology" gasoline car for that two week period? Must I rent for a trip, which means the local rental agency must offer a fleet of gasoline-powered cars? Perhaps. It would be akin to renting rather than buying an "RV" or "camper."


I was imagining battery packs something like a pallet which fits under the car (low c of g) and the change done by driving over the right robotic bit of the forecourt.


Battery makers would be free to make new battery technologies, which would hold more usable energy per pack, but the eternal interface must remain standard.


Since I would not own the batteries, it is not my risk if the battery I get is older, it still belongs to the energy dealer. The range would be a bit less, but that might mean I need to pull in to a refill station sooner than theoretical range - probably need a toilet or a drink anyway. I am not even renting the battery, I am using the battery and paying for the energy I take from it. Until the battery gets to the next fill station the battery and the energy in it are the property of the vendor, and on return the battery physically goes back to the vendor, in exchange for the drive away one, and I settle the account for the energy. Obviously the amount I pay for the energy will have to pay for the life cycle cost of the batteries and the infrastructure, in addition to the energy itself - but that smooths my cash flow to a bit every week rather than a replace the battery cost, and the cost of the car up front would be sans battery - much more attractive for new buyers! That would probably tip the balance very quickly without subsidies, all the batteries would be funded by business that sees profit in providing the service.


Also it would make the electricity grid have a few clearly defined heavy load points, rather than need to provide for every house to recharge batteries, and every carpark to have recharging too. Think of all that cabling to most of the parking spaces in a large car park! Expensive.


And batteries would be well maintained and replaced when the cost of power in to the supplier exceeds the revenue from metered power out sold to the driver. It would be in the battery owner's interests to keep the quality of their fleet satisfactory - especially in winter. And environmentally the special materials in the batteries (which include hazardous) would go back to the factory for recycling, which with the input of manufacturing energy would turn into the right quality of refined materials for a new battery. (Just like the lead in lead acid batteries)

Last edited by tim60; 11-21-2017 at 11:47 PM.
11-21-2017, 11:32 PM   #42015
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
With the weight of batteries I'd think the best placement is as low and near the centre as possible, so maybe have more of a lift-in, drop-out solution under the car? To get around the potential problem of replacing your shiny new battery with an older would be to rent batteries rather than buying them.



For me this is the obvious solution (and it is, since we no longer own a car), but a lot of people will live a fair distance from the nearest rental office.

But I don't think the range will be a problem for long with electrical cars. Now that the industry is investing heavily in battery tech it's a matter of time before someone makes a break-through. Another thing is that there are other alternatives to petrol as a fuel. I know hydrogen has its own issues, being both explosive and corrosive etc, but it is at least clean burning. Although, as with electricity, how clean it really is depends on how you make it.

I can't really imagine city dwellers to own private cars for much longer, though. A waste of resources and space to have cars parked for 20+ hours a day. More and more cities are shutting cars out of the city centre. Real estate is getting costly, so reducing the amount of road surface makes sense in built-up areas.

Things don't look quite the same if you live 500km from your nearest neighbour


I can see another trend. Autonomous cars which are called, more like a taxi, as a transport service and aid for by the service consumed, not the purchase of an asset/liability. This would enable us to travel nearer to door to door, convenient, and not even need to think about finding a place to park.


Challenges are probably going to be in the areas of dealing with cargo, such as shopping. I like to go shopping in several shops on my trip on Saturday morning, put the stuff bought in one shop in the car while I go to another so I do not need to carry all the stuff all the time, and carry things like food bought in one supermarket into another supermarket, where I could plausibly be accused of attempting to steal from the second supermarket. Some method of dealing with the short term storage would be needed. Also, the need of providing for trips where one needs to carry cargo with stops on the way, again only occasionally.


The other challenge will be those people who seem to use their car as a rubbish dump with food wrappers, and worse for other user, food and drink spills.


And we might find the luxury of the cars reduces to be like taxis fitted with the full spew kit.

Last edited by tim60; 11-21-2017 at 11:40 PM.
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