Things I've noticed about the K-3 so far...

tariq · 10-31-2013, 05:23 PM

Thanks. That sounds very encouraging. That one improvement alone may lead me to pick up the K3.

fotogaffer · 10-31-2013, 07:09 PM

Great observations so far and very helpful. Mine came tonight and it's fun setting it all up and coming to understand the new features involving the AF module - looking forward to trying them out in the field. One thing I noticed tonight goofing around the house, the AWB, and the multi-AWB is warmer than the the AWB on the K5 IIs. Also, can any of you locate the ME viewfinder cap? I can't find one anywhere in my box, and as I like to do long exposures, I really would like to have one, and it is supposed to be included. Really nice camera, and after reading some of the posts over the last 24 hours about the diopter and the focus problems from a respectable poster in the other forum, it's a great relief to have it in hand and working and focusing just fine!

audiobomber · 10-31-2013, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by repaap

So only High Iso is dragging it down. This was suspected. other that that. seems like great!

I don't know where you are getting that. DXOMark shows the 24mp cameras with the same SNR ratio as the 16mp cameras. What you saw was probably pixel level SNR, which is not relevant.

panoguy · 10-31-2013, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Azzy

High ISO seems to be as good as K5 or maybe a bit worse, further testing is still required.

So I've started loading all my DNGs from our Halloween party into Adobe Camera Raw (I use ACR 8.1 via Bridge CS6) and here are a few things I've noticed from some "practical" experience.

- High ISOs look a bit worse than the K-5 (as Azzy says above) in terms of the amount of noise, but it seems finer grained (well, hey, 24MP...). It seems the K-5 gets a lot more Chroma noise, but the K-3 gets all kinds of Luminance as the ISOs ramp up. Perhaps this is where noise profiles will be the saving grace?

- The K-3 focuses very well and very confidently in low light, even in full dark (outdoors in the rain). My K-5 would never even attempt what the K-3 could do while we were trick-n-treating. (This is with center single focus-and-recompose, which is my style.) Maybe the K-5II is the same?

- The metering tends to expose a bit brighter than my K-5, at least that's what it seems like. I set the camera to TAv and my Auto-ISO goes to 12,800 with a slow ramp (personal preference) and ended up with Exp. Comp. -1.0 the whole night, indoors and out.

- The AWB is actually pretty good, and handles mixed lighting with aplomb. Unfortunately, it seems ACR doesn't entirely understand how to process the "Multi Auto WB" so what I saw in the preview is gone in ACR and I have to fiddle with the sliders. Hopefully an update from Adobe will fix this... or maybe it's a JPEG-only kind of magic.

- The Dynamic Range in the raw files (as of ACR 8.1 via DNG) is quite a bit less in the K-3 than in the K-5. Where the K-5 could boost shadows from a black blob to decent detail, the K-3 gets monochromatic noisy. Highlights are also hard to recover... but again, this might just be that there is no raw camera profile for this model yet. There would have to be a huge difference to get back up to the K-5 plasticity, though...

- I rarely use flash, but popped up the onboard for a few shots. It exposed very well, and only looked a bit harsh in that pop-up kind of flash way.

Here's an example of the pop-up flash (firing over the DA 35 Macro Ltd.) and please note the girl is a VAMPIRE - she has white and green makeup on her face!

However, the 24MP and the laser-like focus of the K-3 completely knocked one part of this photo out of the pixel-peeping park:
(100% pixel level crop)

And here is an example of ISO 12800 after I ran it through Nik Define (the noise tools in ACR kinda suck on the K-3 images). Also, I couldn't pull the shadows up one bit at this ISO... there is no DR left in the image, but it looks pretty accurate to what I saw:

Last edited by panoguy; 10-31-2013 at 07:42 PM.

panoguy · 10-31-2013, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by fotogaffer

Also, can any of you locate the ME viewfinder cap? I can't find one anywhere in my box, and as I like to do long exposures, I really would like to have one, and it is supposed to be included.

Mine was in a little baggie with the strap. PM me your address and I'll post it out... I've never used these things, and my longest exposure ever was 2.5 seconds!

Originally posted by fotogaffer

Really nice camera, and after reading some of the posts over the last 24 hours about the diopter and the focus problems from a respectable poster in the other forum, it's a great relief to have it in hand and working and focusing just fine!

I'm pretty sure the "diopter problem" was a false flag meant to grab attention. No one else in the US has received their cameras from the Pentax Webstore (and you can even read their generic "delay email" in this forum), but that poster somehow did get one, but couldn't exchange it? Also, for some reason he couldn't post a picture of the camera diopter... hmmm.

rawr · 10-31-2013, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by panoguy

However, the 24MP and the laser-like focus of the K-3 completely knocked one part of this photo out of the pixel-peeping park: (100% pixel level crop)

Heh. When I saw the whole image, I initially thought: 'This image looks a bit soft'.
Obviously not.

**LaurenOE** · 10-31-2013, 08:45 PM

"Things I've noticed about the K-3 so far"

That mine is not in my hands yet, and I am going stir crazy.

That is all.

derekkite · 10-31-2013, 08:51 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by LaurenOE

"Things I've noticed about the K-3 so far"

That mine is not in my hands yet, and I am going stir crazy.

That is all.

And that I'm wearing out my keyboard typing in the tracking number.

Patience is a virtue, they say.

**LaurenOE** · 10-31-2013, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by derekkite

And that I'm wearing out my keyboard typing in the tracking number.

Patience is a virtue, they say.

And a virtue I do not possess.

Class A · 11-01-2013, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Azzy

Inconsistent mode change operation....some things you have to hold and use the scroll to change (metering mode, af mode) while others you just have to press and scroll (ISO, EV)

Your description is a bit ambiguous so this may not be relevant, but do you realise that you can operate the ISO and EV buttons in two ways? You can either "click / turn / click" or "hold & turn". It would appear that the latter mode would allow consistent operation throughout.

Originally posted by panoguy

Unfortunately, it seems ACR doesn't entirely understand how to process the "Multi Auto WB" so what I saw in the preview is gone in ACR and I have to fiddle with the sliders. Hopefully an update from Adobe will fix this... or maybe it's a JPEG-only kind of magic.

I'm not sure what Ricoh's "Multi-AWB" is about. It could either be just a cleverer way of arriving at the regular colour temperature and tint settings or it could actually apply different WB to different parts of the image.

It is almost certain that Adobe will never support the latter in ACR / LR. Before that happens we'll see wired tethering of the K-3 supported by LR and some further impossible things.

Winder · 11-01-2013, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I'm not sure what Ricoh's "Multi-AWB" is about. It could either be just a cleverer way of arriving at the regular colour temperature and tint settings or it could actually apply different WB to different parts of the image.

It is almost certain that Adobe will never support the latter in ACR / LR. Before that happens we'll see wired tethering of the K-3 supported by LR and some further impossible things.

Hopefully Adobe (DXO & C1) releases a profile for the K-3 which will support this feature in DNG and PEF files.

Brew1brew · 11-01-2013, 07:31 AM

What software did it come with? is it still a basic version of SilkyPix?

jake14mw · 11-01-2013, 07:37 AM

One of the biggest things I have learned in reading these K-3 threads is how little I know about RAW file processing! I didn't even know it was important to have these profiles everyone is talking about.

audiobomber · 11-01-2013, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Brew1brew

What software did it come with? is it still a basic version of SilkyPix?

I was very pleased to see that the K-3 software is DCU5, not the horribly obtuse Silkypix bundled with the Q and K-01.

heribert · 11-01-2013, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Azzy

Shooting with LV is much much improved, with K-5 the mirror need to go down and then up again before capturing image. K-3 does it instantly, and no I have not noticed delay MF with LV

No, only the K 20 D works so. Since K-7 the mirror doesn't move from LifeView to exposure.

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10-31-2013, 05:23 PM	#16
tariq New Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 19	Thanks. That sounds very encouraging. That one improvement alone may lead me to pick up the K3.

10-31-2013, 07:09 PM	#17
fotogaffer Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 716	Great observations so far and very helpful. Mine came tonight and it's fun setting it all up and coming to understand the new features involving the AF module - looking forward to trying them out in the field. One thing I noticed tonight goofing around the house, the AWB, and the multi-AWB is warmer than the the AWB on the K5 IIs. Also, can any of you locate the ME viewfinder cap? I can't find one anywhere in my box, and as I like to do long exposures, I really would like to have one, and it is supposed to be included. Really nice camera, and after reading some of the posts over the last 24 hours about the diopter and the focus problems from a respectable poster in the other forum, it's a great relief to have it in hand and working and focusing just fine!

10-31-2013, 07:21 PM	#18
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by repaap So only High Iso is dragging it down. This was suspected. other that that. seems like great! I don't know where you are getting that. DXOMark shows the 24mp cameras with the same SNR ratio as the 16mp cameras. What you saw was probably pixel level SNR, which is not relevant.

10-31-2013, 07:23 PM	#19
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by Azzy High ISO seems to be as good as K5 or maybe a bit worse, further testing is still required. So I've started loading all my DNGs from our Halloween party into Adobe Camera Raw (I use ACR 8.1 via Bridge CS6) and here are a few things I've noticed from some "practical" experience. - High ISOs look a bit worse than the K-5 (as Azzy says above) in terms of the amount of noise, but it seems finer grained (well, hey, 24MP...). It seems the K-5 gets a lot more Chroma noise, but the K-3 gets all kinds of Luminance as the ISOs ramp up. Perhaps this is where noise profiles will be the saving grace? - The K-3 focuses very well and very confidently in low light, even in full dark (outdoors in the rain). My K-5 would never even attempt what the K-3 could do while we were trick-n-treating. (This is with center single focus-and-recompose, which is my style.) Maybe the K-5II is the same? - The metering tends to expose a bit brighter than my K-5, at least that's what it seems like. I set the camera to TAv and my Auto-ISO goes to 12,800 with a slow ramp (personal preference) and ended up with Exp. Comp. -1.0 the whole night, indoors and out. - The AWB is actually pretty good, and handles mixed lighting with aplomb. Unfortunately, it seems ACR doesn't entirely understand how to process the "Multi Auto WB" so what I saw in the preview is gone in ACR and I have to fiddle with the sliders. Hopefully an update from Adobe will fix this... or maybe it's a JPEG-only kind of magic. - The Dynamic Range in the raw files (as of ACR 8.1 via DNG) is quite a bit less in the K-3 than in the K-5. Where the K-5 could boost shadows from a black blob to decent detail, the K-3 gets monochromatic noisy. Highlights are also hard to recover... but again, this might just be that there is no raw camera profile for this model yet. There would have to be a huge difference to get back up to the K-5 plasticity, though... - I rarely use flash, but popped up the onboard for a few shots. It exposed very well, and only looked a bit harsh in that pop-up kind of flash way. Here's an example of the pop-up flash (firing over the DA 35 Macro Ltd.) and please note the girl is a VAMPIRE - she has white and green makeup on her face! However, the 24MP and the laser-like focus of the K-3 completely knocked one part of this photo out of the pixel-peeping park: (100% pixel level crop) And here is an example of ISO 12800 after I ran it through Nik Define (the noise tools in ACR kinda suck on the K-3 images). Also, I couldn't pull the shadows up one bit at this ISO... there is no DR left in the image, but it looks pretty accurate to what I saw: Last edited by panoguy; 10-31-2013 at 07:42 PM.

10-31-2013, 07:41 PM	#20
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327 Original Poster	Originally posted by fotogaffer Also, can any of you locate the ME viewfinder cap? I can't find one anywhere in my box, and as I like to do long exposures, I really would like to have one, and it is supposed to be included. Mine was in a little baggie with the strap. PM me your address and I'll post it out... I've never used these things, and my longest exposure ever was 2.5 seconds! Originally posted by fotogaffer Really nice camera, and after reading some of the posts over the last 24 hours about the diopter and the focus problems from a respectable poster in the other forum, it's a great relief to have it in hand and working and focusing just fine! I'm pretty sure the "diopter problem" was a false flag meant to grab attention. No one else in the US has received their cameras from the Pentax Webstore (and you can even read their generic "delay email" in this forum), but that poster somehow did get one, but couldn't exchange it? Also, for some reason he couldn't post a picture of the camera diopter... hmmm.

10-31-2013, 07:50 PM	#21
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by panoguy However, the 24MP and the laser-like focus of the K-3 completely knocked one part of this photo out of the pixel-peeping park: (100% pixel level crop) Heh. When I saw the whole image, I initially thought: 'This image looks a bit soft'. Obviously not.

10-31-2013, 08:45 PM	#22
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	"Things I've noticed about the K-3 so far" That mine is not in my hands yet, and I am going stir crazy. That is all.

10-31-2013, 08:51 PM - 1 Like	#23
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by LaurenOE "Things I've noticed about the K-3 so far" That mine is not in my hands yet, and I am going stir crazy. That is all. And that I'm wearing out my keyboard typing in the tracking number. Patience is a virtue, they say.

10-31-2013, 09:05 PM	#24
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Originally posted by derekkite And that I'm wearing out my keyboard typing in the tracking number. Patience is a virtue, they say. And a virtue I do not possess.

11-01-2013, 06:49 AM	#25
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Azzy Inconsistent mode change operation....some things you have to hold and use the scroll to change (metering mode, af mode) while others you just have to press and scroll (ISO, EV) Your description is a bit ambiguous so this may not be relevant, but do you realise that you can operate the ISO and EV buttons in two ways? You can either "click / turn / click" or "hold & turn". It would appear that the latter mode would allow consistent operation throughout. Originally posted by panoguy Unfortunately, it seems ACR doesn't entirely understand how to process the "Multi Auto WB" so what I saw in the preview is gone in ACR and I have to fiddle with the sliders. Hopefully an update from Adobe will fix this... or maybe it's a JPEG-only kind of magic. I'm not sure what Ricoh's "Multi-AWB" is about. It could either be just a cleverer way of arriving at the regular colour temperature and tint settings or it could actually apply different WB to different parts of the image. It is almost certain that Adobe will never support the latter in ACR / LR. Before that happens we'll see wired tethering of the K-3 supported by LR and some further impossible things.

11-01-2013, 07:16 AM	#26
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Class A I'm not sure what Ricoh's "Multi-AWB" is about. It could either be just a cleverer way of arriving at the regular colour temperature and tint settings or it could actually apply different WB to different parts of the image. It is almost certain that Adobe will never support the latter in ACR / LR. Before that happens we'll see wired tethering of the K-3 supported by LR and some further impossible things. Hopefully Adobe (DXO & C1) releases a profile for the K-3 which will support this feature in DNG and PEF files.

11-01-2013, 07:31 AM	#27
Brew1brew Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Plano Texas USA Posts: 121	What software did it come with? is it still a basic version of SilkyPix?

11-01-2013, 07:37 AM	#28
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977	One of the biggest things I have learned in reading these K-3 threads is how little I know about RAW file processing! I didn't even know it was important to have these profiles everyone is talking about.

11-01-2013, 07:54 AM	#29
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Brew1brew What software did it come with? is it still a basic version of SilkyPix? I was very pleased to see that the K-3 software is DCU5, not the horribly obtuse Silkypix bundled with the Q and K-01.

11-01-2013, 08:13 AM	#30
heribert Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lindlar Photos: Gallery Posts: 40	Originally posted by Azzy Shooting with LV is much much improved, with K-5 the mirror need to go down and then up again before capturing image. K-3 does it instantly, and no I have not noticed delay MF with LV No, only the K 20 D works so. Since K-7 the mirror doesn't move from LifeView to exposure.