K-3 flash issue

Unregistered User · 01-31-2014, 06:52 PM

One could wonder what the K-3 is doing between pressing the shutter and sending the pre-flash. Wierd. This has to be a bug. If it was between pre-flash and flash it would account for any calculations needed but before... It has to be bad coding. Same behavior with internal and external flash.

**jpzk** · 01-31-2014, 09:04 PM

Wasn't this something similar to this:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242556-k-3-delay-when-using-flash.html

JP

**MJSfoto1956** · 02-01-2014, 12:18 PM

probably unrelated, but having to do with the popup flash nonetheless:

I notice that when the camera is in auto bracket mode (i.e. +1, 0. -1 stops) and when the popup flash is engaged, the bracketing affects the FLASH power not the underlying exposure! (i.e. the exposures are all the same, but the flash varies). Further, it appears to me that in "slow" mode, the behavior is very different than what I am used to with my Nikon D800's "slow" mode: what I expect is that the camera attempts to balance out the exposure to sit somewhere in-between full-on flash and non-flash (i.e. ambient light) exposure. This is not what I am seeing with the K-3, which is tending to overexpose the scene by ADDING the flash to the ambient light. Is there anyway to adjust this? Or is this just a Pentax thing? (if so, I can state that I finally found something I don't like about my new K-3)

Michael

Unregistered User · 02-01-2014, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by MJSfoto1956

probably unrelated, but having to do with the popup flash nonetheless:

I notice that when the camera is in auto bracket mode (i.e. +1, 0. -1 stops) and when the popup flash is engaged, the bracketing affects the FLASH power not the underlying exposure! (i.e. the exposures are all the same, but the flash varies). Further, it appears to me that in "slow" mode, the behavior is very different than what I am used to with my Nikon D800's "slow" mode: what I expect is that the camera attempts to balance out the exposure to sit somewhere in-between full-on flash and non-flash (i.e. ambient light) exposure. This is not what I am seeing with the K-3, which is tending to overexpose the scene by ADDING the flash to the ambient light. Is there anyway to adjust this? Or is this just a Pentax thing? (if so, I can state that I finally found something I don't like about my new K-3)

Michael

Interesting observation I thought so I sat down and made some tests. First I always have a -1 EV or more for the flash power. I feel it always gives to much flash. The K-5 I always had -2 but the K-3 is closer so -1 is what I use for fill.

That the flash changes power when bracketing with flash feels somewhat logikal, I would expect it to do that. Maybe it is because I have only used Pentax as digital SLR. Have borrowed my friends D800 from time to time but never used flash with it.

I have tested the slow sync and can't really see that it becomes over exposed. It depends i guess on if you have a dark background far away and a dark subject close that needs flash to be seen or if you test it in the kitchen. First scenario is good, second feels like it is adding to the exposure if the flash is not dialed down. I have never used it in scenario 2 before now.

If you take the same "slow sync picture" with both the K-3 and the D800 how much more flash does the K-3 give compared?

EDIT: I have made some extra tests in my much longer livingroom and out on the balcony and I find it to do what I expect it to do, light up the background with a long exposure and the foreground with the flash. Is there any other scenario I am not thinking about?
I find that the inside of my appartment is to small due to the amount of flash that can be produced, I can make my livingroom very bright with this little flash on ISO100...

Last edited by Unregistered User; 02-01-2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Adding

**MJSfoto1956** · 02-01-2014, 01:10 PM - **1 Like**

I'll do the D800 vs K-3 comparison tomorrow, but just now, after having testing all sorts of settings on the K-3 the only popup flash setting I *personally* like is TAv mode with -0.3 stops ambient exposure + Slow flash with -2 stops. I actually like the "look" of this setting. The camera seems to bias the flash too much when it has too many auto params to deal with. Letting it only deal with one parameter (e.g. auto ISO) and dialing the flash back gives me a decent fill flash which is the only way I would ever use popup flash in the first place. Oh, and another thing, the K-3 popup flash seems to really work well with the Graslon Spark flash diffuser (see below).

Michael

awaldram · 02-01-2014, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by awaldram

From my experiments the k3 is at more accurate than E-TTLii and at least as accurate as CLS its a breath off fresh air and obviously Ricoh has spent many man hour ensuring errors the k10d/k20 (under exposure) and k7/k5/k5ii/s (bounce over and some distance inconsistency) are truly put to bed .
If your flash has enough power you will get well exposed shots time after time in all circumstances (at least those I've tried).

I can't understand this hang up on a 1/10th of a second given the response it looks like many complaining haven't extensively used flash previously.

I totaly disagree with this poster, When shooting sport with flash the delay is untenable and needs fixing.

These appologists get right up my nose

Unregistered User · 02-01-2014, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by awaldram

I totaly disagree with this poster, When shooting sport with flash the delay is untenable and needs fixing.

These appologists get right up my nose

I agree, sports i don't know but shooting children is impossible as is...

**Spodeworld** · 03-12-2014, 11:42 AM

MJSfoto1956 - I'm intrigued by the Graslon Spark flash diffuser. I haven't seen a pop up flash modifier yet that gives acceptable results. I'm wondering if the Graslon might offer some hope.

awaldram · 03-13-2014, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Spodeworld

MJSfoto1956 - I'm intrigued by the Graslon Spark flash diffuser. I haven't seen a pop up flash modifier yet that gives acceptable results. I'm wondering if the Graslon might offer some hope.

The objective of all flash photography it to create as large a light source as possible to hide the telltale rabbit in the headlights.

Hence why Brollies Bouncing and light modifiers can work so well but diffusers less so.

The diffuser fitted to the flash above has greatly increased the size of the pop up flash but is still small.
IMO it will not deliver anything like a 'non' flash picture whatever you do with flash power.

02-01-2014, 01:10 PM - 1 Like	#65
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	I'll do the D800 vs K-3 comparison tomorrow, but just now, after having testing all sorts of settings on the K-3 the only popup flash setting I personally like is TAv mode with -0.3 stops ambient exposure + Slow flash with -2 stops. I actually like the "look" of this setting. The camera seems to bias the flash too much when it has too many auto params to deal with. Letting it only deal with one parameter (e.g. auto ISO) and dialing the flash back gives me a decent fill flash which is the only way I would ever use popup flash in the first place. Oh, and another thing, the K-3 popup flash seems to really work well with the Graslon Spark flash diffuser (see below). Michael Attached Images

03-12-2014, 11:42 AM	#68
Spodeworld Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New Joisey Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,370	MJSfoto1956 - I'm intrigued by the Graslon Spark flash diffuser. I haven't seen a pop up flash modifier yet that gives acceptable results. I'm wondering if the Graslon might offer some hope. Last edited by Spodeworld; 03-12-2014 at 01:37 PM.

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01-31-2014, 06:52 PM	#61
Unregistered User Guest	One could wonder what the K-3 is doing between pressing the shutter and sending the pre-flash. Wierd. This has to be a bug. If it was between pre-flash and flash it would account for any calculations needed but before... It has to be bad coding. Same behavior with internal and external flash.

01-31-2014, 09:04 PM	#62
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Wasn't this something similar to this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242556-k-3-delay-when-using-flash.html JP

02-01-2014, 12:18 PM	#63
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	probably unrelated, but having to do with the popup flash nonetheless: I notice that when the camera is in auto bracket mode (i.e. +1, 0. -1 stops) and when the popup flash is engaged, the bracketing affects the FLASH power not the underlying exposure! (i.e. the exposures are all the same, but the flash varies). Further, it appears to me that in "slow" mode, the behavior is very different than what I am used to with my Nikon D800's "slow" mode: what I expect is that the camera attempts to balance out the exposure to sit somewhere in-between full-on flash and non-flash (i.e. ambient light) exposure. This is not what I am seeing with the K-3, which is tending to overexpose the scene by ADDING the flash to the ambient light. Is there anyway to adjust this? Or is this just a Pentax thing? (if so, I can state that I finally found something I don't like about my new K-3) Michael

02-01-2014, 12:50 PM	#64
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by MJSfoto1956 probably unrelated, but having to do with the popup flash nonetheless: I notice that when the camera is in auto bracket mode (i.e. +1, 0. -1 stops) and when the popup flash is engaged, the bracketing affects the FLASH power not the underlying exposure! (i.e. the exposures are all the same, but the flash varies). Further, it appears to me that in "slow" mode, the behavior is very different than what I am used to with my Nikon D800's "slow" mode: what I expect is that the camera attempts to balance out the exposure to sit somewhere in-between full-on flash and non-flash (i.e. ambient light) exposure. This is not what I am seeing with the K-3, which is tending to overexpose the scene by ADDING the flash to the ambient light. Is there anyway to adjust this? Or is this just a Pentax thing? (if so, I can state that I finally found something I don't like about my new K-3) Michael Interesting observation I thought so I sat down and made some tests. First I always have a -1 EV or more for the flash power. I feel it always gives to much flash. The K-5 I always had -2 but the K-3 is closer so -1 is what I use for fill. That the flash changes power when bracketing with flash feels somewhat logikal, I would expect it to do that. Maybe it is because I have only used Pentax as digital SLR. Have borrowed my friends D800 from time to time but never used flash with it. I have tested the slow sync and can't really see that it becomes over exposed. It depends i guess on if you have a dark background far away and a dark subject close that needs flash to be seen or if you test it in the kitchen. First scenario is good, second feels like it is adding to the exposure if the flash is not dialed down. I have never used it in scenario 2 before now. If you take the same "slow sync picture" with both the K-3 and the D800 how much more flash does the K-3 give compared? EDIT: I have made some extra tests in my much longer livingroom and out on the balcony and I find it to do what I expect it to do, light up the background with a long exposure and the foreground with the flash. Is there any other scenario I am not thinking about? I find that the inside of my appartment is to small due to the amount of flash that can be produced, I can make my livingroom very bright with this little flash on ISO100... Last edited by Unregistered User; 02-01-2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Adding

02-01-2014, 03:06 PM	#66
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by awaldram From my experiments the k3 is at more accurate than E-TTLii and at least as accurate as CLS its a breath off fresh air and obviously Ricoh has spent many man hour ensuring errors the k10d/k20 (under exposure) and k7/k5/k5ii/s (bounce over and some distance inconsistency) are truly put to bed . If your flash has enough power you will get well exposed shots time after time in all circumstances (at least those I've tried). I can't understand this hang up on a 1/10th of a second given the response it looks like many complaining haven't extensively used flash previously. I totaly disagree with this poster, When shooting sport with flash the delay is untenable and needs fixing. These appologists get right up my nose

02-01-2014, 03:22 PM	#67
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by awaldram I totaly disagree with this poster, When shooting sport with flash the delay is untenable and needs fixing. These appologists get right up my nose I agree, sports i don't know but shooting children is impossible as is...

03-13-2014, 06:07 AM	#69
awaldram Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hampshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 732	Originally posted by Spodeworld MJSfoto1956 - I'm intrigued by the Graslon Spark flash diffuser. I haven't seen a pop up flash modifier yet that gives acceptable results. I'm wondering if the Graslon might offer some hope. The objective of all flash photography it to create as large a light source as possible to hide the telltale rabbit in the headlights. Hence why Brollies Bouncing and light modifiers can work so well but diffusers less so. The diffuser fitted to the flash above has greatly increased the size of the pop up flash but is still small. IMO it will not deliver anything like a 'non' flash picture whatever you do with flash power.