K3 vs. Df

tuco · 12-29-2013, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Did you handle the silver Df or the black one?
The problem w/ the silver is the body is plastic (only the dials are metal). The silver plastic in any DSLR feels plastic...if you've ever held a Canon Rebel, you'd know what I mean.

The black one. IMHO the black one has the advantage of putting modern G-lenses on it and not look out of place. There are plastic bits around some areas of the camera. The top plate is metal (where the dials are) for example. But if you want a 710 gram camera the size of the Df, an all metal body is going to add up I would suspect.

Most of the shots I've done with it are people pictures. I put the camera in auto ISO and switch between aperture priority and manual mode ( while auto ISO is enabled) which is like TAv on my Pentax. If you use auto ISO, place it in your "My Menu" and keep the top item and assign a button to it so when you press it you go straight to it and can change minimum shutter speed and top ISO really fast and convenient.

Nikon missed an excellent opportunity by not letting the ISO and shutter speed dials on top control the top ISO and minimum shutter speed for auto ISO instead of by the menu.

souless · 12-29-2013, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by SteveM

I'm up with family at a resort for the next week, so give me some time and I'll check. My first thought was noticing how the 50mm searches in low light. There is no AF assist lamp and I thing (would need to check) that the K3 has more dynamic range, so it might be better for you. Give me some time and I will report back.....

Thank you so much!! I certainly don't want you spend more time with DF or K-3 than with your family

SteveM · 12-29-2013, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by tuco

I put the camera in auto ISO and switch between aperture priority and manual mode ( while auto ISO is enabled) which is like TAv on my Pentax. If you use auto ISO, place it in your "My Menu" and keep the top item and assign a button to it so when you press it you go straight to it and can change minimum shutter speed and top ISO really fast and convenient.

Mine came with the default set to crop for DX lenses, which is brilliant if Pentax ever released a FF...all set for their current DA line like the DA15, but it seemed bizarre at the same time. I had to spend some time setting a FF camera to take FF pictures.

I really do like the black version as well.....

SteveM · 12-29-2013, 11:07 PM

One other comment, for someone that has bought and used every Asahi/Pentax (very close.....but I am trying) body released since 1950, the digital versions that I've seen growth for Pentax was the K10d, the K5 and I hope from what I see, the K3.

kenyee · 12-30-2013, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by tuco

The black one. IMHO the black one has the advantage of putting modern G-lenses on it and not look out of place. There are plastic bits around some areas of the camera. The top plate is metal (where the dials are) for example. But if you want a 710 gram camera the size of the Df, an all metal body is going to add up I would suspect.

Next time, go back and pick up the silver one and let me know how it feels to you...
I think the black would feel less plasticky...they seem to be able to get texture right on black. On silver, they have to try making the plastic look "metallic", but when you touch it, it's smooth so your brain knows it's plastic. Hence all the comments about "plasticky". The weight also makes it feel cheapy because your brain thinks it's metal, then you pick it up and realize it's too light

Like I said, people (including the salespeople who showed it to me and a few customers) expected the retro all metal bodies like an Pentax LX or Nikon FE....not something blocky and light.
Sensor is nice though...

RonHendriks1966 · 12-30-2013, 06:28 PM

Well the K-3 with that little Silver lens looks great. I do like the little topscreen from the Df, since it brings everything you need without being massive.

tuco · 12-30-2013, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Next time, go back and pick up the silver one and let me know how it feels to you...
I think the black would feel less plasticky...they seem to be able to get texture right on black. On silver, they have to try making the plastic look "metallic", but when you touch it, it's smooth so your brain knows it's plastic. Hence all the comments about "plasticky". The weight also makes it feel cheapy because your brain thinks it's metal, then you pick it up and realize it's too light

Like I said, people (including the salespeople who showed it to me and a few customers) expected the retro all metal bodies like an Pentax LX or Nikon FE....not something blocky and light.
Sensor is nice though...

The one I was using is a friends camera. Next time I'm at a camera store I'll check out the panda version. He is bring the camera over for me to take a picture of it. If it turns out, I'll post a shot of it here. I think the camera would benefit weighing a little more for larger lenses.

Reltih · 12-31-2013, 03:20 AM

Thanks for sharing!

The mask (cropped) from K-3 and the mushroom from Df may be out of focus. That make the comparison a bit inaccurate.

pinholecam · 01-05-2014, 09:50 PM

Nice comparison.
Thanks for sharing.
Its not always that someone has both cameras (and takes the hard work to compare them and post the results).

One query.
Do you think the K3 will be better off at high ISO if you had a NR+sharpen+resize (16mp) workflow?

tuco · 01-05-2014, 10:06 PM

Here is a shot I did of the black Df + 58/1.4G lens. I suspended the camera with threads and cloned them out in post.

scole · 01-05-2014, 10:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Reltih

Thanks for sharing!

The mask (cropped) from K-3 and the mushroom from Df may be out of focus. That make the comparison a bit inaccurate.

This would be my impression as well. The high ISO comparison is pretty dramatic but, if you're not pixel peeping, the K3 seems to hold its own fairly well. Makes me kinda wonder what Pentax will eventually have for us when they do release a FF camera.

SteveM · 01-06-2014, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Here is a shot I did of the black Df + 58/1.4G lens. I suspended the camera with threads and cloned them out in post.

Really nice shot.....and I like the black just as much as the silver.....

tuco · 01-06-2014, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by SteveM

Really nice shot.....and I like the black just as much as the silver.....

Thanks. I put a Sigma 35/1.4 Art on it and that is starting to be about the limit for lens size/weight to body weight for a comfortable feel, in general, for me.

Reltih · 01-07-2014, 09:04 AM

In your pictures, Df obviously has better ISO at pixel level than K-3. But at the same ISO setting, the measured value of K-3 is higher than Df. For example, at 6400 ISO setting, the measured values of K-3 and Df are 6057 and 4864 respectively, which is 25% difference. If this is taken into account, the actual difference of ISO performance between K-3 and Df is somewhat smaller than in your pictures.

SteveM · 01-07-2014, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Reltih

In your pictures, Df obviously has better ISO at pixel level than K-3. But at the same ISO setting, the measured value of K-3 is higher than Df. For example, at 6400 ISO setting, the measured values of K-3 and Df are 6057 and 4864 respectively, which is 25% difference. If this is taken into account, the actual difference of ISO performance between K-3 and Df is somewhat smaller than in your pictures.

It's hard to know what all of the various calculations really mean, but I understand what you're saying. I've be curious to know what the calculations are at 12,800 and if it is still at a 25% spread.

I tried to use the same setting for this review, but I haven't spent enough time with either camera to get a feel for how far I can push each and still get usable shots. I find shooting high ISO frustrating at times for both cameras. Some shots seem to have more noise than others yet the conditions seem to be the same. It may boil down to tones, gradients of shadows etc.

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12-29-2013, 09:07 PM	#31
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	Originally posted by kenyee Did you handle the silver Df or the black one? The problem w/ the silver is the body is plastic (only the dials are metal). The silver plastic in any DSLR feels plastic...if you've ever held a Canon Rebel, you'd know what I mean. The black one. IMHO the black one has the advantage of putting modern G-lenses on it and not look out of place. There are plastic bits around some areas of the camera. The top plate is metal (where the dials are) for example. But if you want a 710 gram camera the size of the Df, an all metal body is going to add up I would suspect. Most of the shots I've done with it are people pictures. I put the camera in auto ISO and switch between aperture priority and manual mode ( while auto ISO is enabled) which is like TAv on my Pentax. If you use auto ISO, place it in your "My Menu" and keep the top item and assign a button to it so when you press it you go straight to it and can change minimum shutter speed and top ISO really fast and convenient. Nikon missed an excellent opportunity by not letting the ISO and shutter speed dials on top control the top ISO and minimum shutter speed for auto ISO instead of by the menu.

12-29-2013, 09:16 PM	#32
souless Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Taipei Posts: 110	Originally posted by SteveM I'm up with family at a resort for the next week, so give me some time and I'll check. My first thought was noticing how the 50mm searches in low light. There is no AF assist lamp and I thing (would need to check) that the K3 has more dynamic range, so it might be better for you. Give me some time and I will report back..... Thank you so much!! I certainly don't want you spend more time with DF or K-3 than with your family

12-29-2013, 10:54 PM	#33
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco I put the camera in auto ISO and switch between aperture priority and manual mode ( while auto ISO is enabled) which is like TAv on my Pentax. If you use auto ISO, place it in your "My Menu" and keep the top item and assign a button to it so when you press it you go straight to it and can change minimum shutter speed and top ISO really fast and convenient. Mine came with the default set to crop for DX lenses, which is brilliant if Pentax ever released a FF...all set for their current DA line like the DA15, but it seemed bizarre at the same time. I had to spend some time setting a FF camera to take FF pictures. I really do like the black version as well.....

12-29-2013, 11:07 PM	#34
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294 Original Poster	One other comment, for someone that has bought and used every Asahi/Pentax (very close.....but I am trying) body released since 1950, the digital versions that I've seen growth for Pentax was the K10d, the K5 and I hope from what I see, the K3.

12-30-2013, 04:19 PM	#35
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by tuco The black one. IMHO the black one has the advantage of putting modern G-lenses on it and not look out of place. There are plastic bits around some areas of the camera. The top plate is metal (where the dials are) for example. But if you want a 710 gram camera the size of the Df, an all metal body is going to add up I would suspect. Next time, go back and pick up the silver one and let me know how it feels to you... I think the black would feel less plasticky...they seem to be able to get texture right on black. On silver, they have to try making the plastic look "metallic", but when you touch it, it's smooth so your brain knows it's plastic. Hence all the comments about "plasticky". The weight also makes it feel cheapy because your brain thinks it's metal, then you pick it up and realize it's too light Like I said, people (including the salespeople who showed it to me and a few customers) expected the retro all metal bodies like an Pentax LX or Nikon FE....not something blocky and light. Sensor is nice though...

12-30-2013, 06:28 PM	#36
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well the K-3 with that little Silver lens looks great. I do like the little topscreen from the Df, since it brings everything you need without being massive.

12-30-2013, 06:30 PM	#37
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	Originally posted by kenyee Next time, go back and pick up the silver one and let me know how it feels to you... I think the black would feel less plasticky...they seem to be able to get texture right on black. On silver, they have to try making the plastic look "metallic", but when you touch it, it's smooth so your brain knows it's plastic. Hence all the comments about "plasticky". The weight also makes it feel cheapy because your brain thinks it's metal, then you pick it up and realize it's too light Like I said, people (including the salespeople who showed it to me and a few customers) expected the retro all metal bodies like an Pentax LX or Nikon FE....not something blocky and light. Sensor is nice though... The one I was using is a friends camera. Next time I'm at a camera store I'll check out the panda version. He is bring the camera over for me to take a picture of it. If it turns out, I'll post a shot of it here. I think the camera would benefit weighing a little more for larger lenses.

12-31-2013, 03:20 AM	#38
Reltih Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 84	Thanks for sharing! The mask (cropped) from K-3 and the mushroom from Df may be out of focus. That make the comparison a bit inaccurate.

01-05-2014, 09:50 PM	#39
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,709	Nice comparison. Thanks for sharing. Its not always that someone has both cameras (and takes the hard work to compare them and post the results). One query. Do you think the K3 will be better off at high ISO if you had a NR+sharpen+resize (16mp) workflow?

01-05-2014, 10:06 PM	#40
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	Here is a shot I did of the black Df + 58/1.4G lens. I suspended the camera with threads and cloned them out in post.

01-05-2014, 10:26 PM - 1 Like	#41
scole Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 216	Originally posted by Reltih Thanks for sharing! The mask (cropped) from K-3 and the mushroom from Df may be out of focus. That make the comparison a bit inaccurate. This would be my impression as well. The high ISO comparison is pretty dramatic but, if you're not pixel peeping, the K3 seems to hold its own fairly well. Makes me kinda wonder what Pentax will eventually have for us when they do release a FF camera.

01-06-2014, 04:50 PM	#42
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco Here is a shot I did of the black Df + 58/1.4G lens. I suspended the camera with threads and cloned them out in post. Really nice shot.....and I like the black just as much as the silver.....

01-06-2014, 05:53 PM	#43
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	Originally posted by SteveM Really nice shot.....and I like the black just as much as the silver..... Thanks. I put a Sigma 35/1.4 Art on it and that is starting to be about the limit for lens size/weight to body weight for a comfortable feel, in general, for me.

01-07-2014, 09:04 AM	#44
Reltih Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 84	In your pictures, Df obviously has better ISO at pixel level than K-3. But at the same ISO setting, the measured value of K-3 is higher than Df. For example, at 6400 ISO setting, the measured values of K-3 and Df are 6057 and 4864 respectively, which is 25% difference. If this is taken into account, the actual difference of ISO performance between K-3 and Df is somewhat smaller than in your pictures.

01-07-2014, 10:12 PM	#45
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294 Original Poster	Originally posted by Reltih In your pictures, Df obviously has better ISO at pixel level than K-3. But at the same ISO setting, the measured value of K-3 is higher than Df. For example, at 6400 ISO setting, the measured values of K-3 and Df are 6057 and 4864 respectively, which is 25% difference. If this is taken into account, the actual difference of ISO performance between K-3 and Df is somewhat smaller than in your pictures. It's hard to know what all of the various calculations really mean, but I understand what you're saying. I've be curious to know what the calculations are at 12,800 and if it is still at a 25% spread. I tried to use the same setting for this review, but I haven't spent enough time with either camera to get a feel for how far I can push each and still get usable shots. I find shooting high ISO frustrating at times for both cameras. Some shots seem to have more noise than others yet the conditions seem to be the same. It may boil down to tones, gradients of shadows etc.