Shutter Flutter Panic using BG-5 Battery Grip On Low Battery

Rite · 02-26-2014, 03:25 PM

I replicated this twice now.

Was using the BG-5 Battery Grip loaded with 'AA' batteries. The K-30 battery was OUT of the camera. The ONLY power source were the 'AA' batteries in the BG-5.

Used the battery charge level all the way to near zero.

A sudden 'Shutter Flutter' panic occurred as the 'AA' batteries were at near depletion.

e.g., I hit the shutter, which was followed by UNCONTROLLED shutter response at MAXIMUM shutter rate.

The K-3 was fresh, OOTB, with Firmware 1.0. Just flashed it to 1.2

Any ideas? I'm thinking it was related to the BG-5 using near-depleted 'AA' batteries.

Tnx ...

Rite

DSims · 02-26-2014, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Rite

Any ideas? I'm thinking it was related to the BG-5 using near-depleted 'AA' batteries.

It probably was. If you used Eneloops it would likely not happen, because they hold a near-constant voltage until they're completely depleted.

The other batteries I like to use are Energizer Ultimate Lithiums, which do well, but they still exhibit a significant voltage drop near the end of their life.

Adam · 02-26-2014, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Rite

I replicated this twice now.

Was using the BG-5 Battery Grip loaded with 'AA' batteries. The K-30 battery was OUT of the camera. The ONLY power source were the 'AA' batteries in the BG-5.

Used the battery charge level all the way to near zero.

A sudden 'Shutter Flutter' panic occurred as the 'AA' batteries were at near depletion.

e.g., I hit the shutter, which was followed by UNCONTROLLED shutter response at MAXIMUM shutter rate.

The K-3 was fresh, OOTB, with Firmware 1.0. Just flashed it to 1.2

Any ideas? I'm thinking it was related to the BG-5 using near-depleted 'AA' batteries.

Tnx ...

Rite

1.02 should make your camera more stable.

**jbinpg** · 02-26-2014, 04:04 PM - **1 Like**

To be pedantic, it is not a shutter flutter but a mirror flutter. The shutter does not open when this occurs. Had this happen just last night. Had the astro photo setup going when all of a sudden "battery depleted" flashed on the screen and the runaway mirror happened. Turns out I had exhausted my external power supply as well as the internal battery. Just a confirmation that the runaway mirror does occur when the power feed to the camera stops. Whether this is its only trigger is unknown.

Jack

Rite · 02-26-2014, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

To be pedantic, it is not a shutter flutter but a mirror flutter. The shutter does not open when this occurs. Had this happen just last night. Had the astro photo setup going when all of a sudden "battery depleted" flashed on the screen and the runaway mirror happened. Turns out I had exhausted my external power supply as well as the internal battery. Just a confirmation that the runaway mirror does occur when the power feed to the camera stops. Whether this is its only trigger is unknown.

Jack

-----------------------------------------------

I should know better than to use plain alkalines anyway, but it does appear to be a 'known' anomaly. I stumbled onto it while the regular camera battery was charging (for the first time).

Meanwhile, I am running old 'A' lenses through the K-3 and having a blast with it. The autofocus on modern lenses is fantastic, BTW.

**TaiChiTom** · 02-26-2014, 07:00 PM

I experienced the mirror flutter yesterday. Though I've had the camera for several weeks, this was the first time I had it out for a hike. Freshly charged battery. Turned the camera on the first time and the flutter began. Turned the power off and it continued. I was in the process of taking the camera off the tripod to remove the battery when it stopped. No harm done and I continued shooting normally. I have firmware 1.02 installed.

Rite · 02-26-2014, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by TaiChiTom

I experienced the mirror flutter yesterday. Though I've had the camera for several weeks, this was the first time I had it out for a hike. Freshly charged battery. Turned the camera on the first time and the flutter began. Turned the power off and it continued. I was in the process of taking the camera off the tripod to remove the battery when it stopped. No harm done and I continued shooting normally. I have firmware 1.02 installed.

-----------------------------------------------

I'm not liking the sound of that. LoL - when it happened (twice) I was sitting next to my wife and she had the dog in her lap. The flutter sound scared the dog to the point of barking and the wife said, "Isn't that the new camera you just took out of the box? Does it have a warranty?"

Yours fluttered on a FRESHLY CHARGED BATTERY being used from inside the body. I've only gone through one battery recharge, but the original incident started while using the battery grip using 'AA' alkalines, and only then when those had been nearly depleted.

I see 1.03 heading our way soon.

PALADIN85020 · 02-27-2014, 12:00 PM

I've only had the mirror flutter thing happen once, right after I got the K-3 in November. I don't recall whether the battery was depleted or not. I now watch the battery indicator, and when it moves down from the "full charge" icon, I put in a full-charged battery. I rotate through 3 of them. I have not had another incident of mirror flutter, and am currently using firmware v. 1.02. While I have the add-on grip, I have not yet had occasion to use it, either with AAs or the rechargeable battery. I do keep lithium AAs in it as an emergency power backup. "Just once" in about four months of use, and early on, is not a deal killer for me. I see no point in returning the camera for another that's made just the same way. I like the K-3 very much, will continue to use it, and hope that firmware v. 1.03 will finally address and solve the problem.

I also have a K-5, and was surprised that others report a similar mirror flutter problem with that. Mine never did that under any circumstances. I keep the K-5 as a very capable backup; if my K-3 ever goes belly up and has to be returned for service, I'm still well equipped.

John

Little Ray · 02-27-2014, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Rite

I see 1.03 heading our way soon.

Hello,

Where do you see information about 1.03?

Best,

Little Ray

Rite · 03-01-2014, 12:14 PM

The mirror flutter issue on the K-3 would/could/should be resolved with the next firmware revision, which has not been released yet (1.03).

This is in no way a deal breaker, just a minor anomaly that otherwise has zero impact on the fantastic performance of the K-3.

I will say it is the highest performing camera I have ever owned, and that spans dozens of great cameras over the past forty years.

It is good to be aware of it though.

Rite ..

--------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Little Ray

Hello,

Where do you see information about 1.03?

Best,

Little Ray

**jbinpg** · 03-01-2014, 01:06 PM

Unfortunately, this does negatively impact those doing timelapse photography using the interval setting. One person has documented her troubles extensively in this forum. Do a search for timelapse and you should find it. It may be a small subset of K-3 users but it is still a problem.

Jack

Rite · 03-02-2014, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by jbinpg

Unfortunately, this does negatively impact those doing timelapse photography using the interval setting. One person has documented her troubles extensively in this forum. Do a search for timelapse and you should find it. It may be a small subset of K-3 users but it is still a problem.

Jack

---------------------------------------------------

Thanks for bringing that up. I was planning on doing some time lapse this summer. Crud ..

---------- Post added 03-02-2014 at 02:05 PM ----------

Instead of 'mirror flutter,' check out this 'machinegunning' effect right before the camera fails.

Originally posted by fcrespo

Thanks, but I checked that already. It was machine-gunning even when the menu was set clearly in single-frame shooting.
Now I can't verify even that because the camera does not power on.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253398-k3-died-me.html#post2723940

stevebrot · 03-02-2014, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Rite

The mirror flutter issue on the K-3 would/could/should be resolved with the next firmware revision, which has not been released yet (1.03).

Are you sure? Reference please.

Steve

**jbinpg** · 03-02-2014, 03:50 PM

@Rite - In every described case of the machine-gun issue, no images have been taken by the K-3. This rules out the shutter being open during the event. It seems to be purely a mirror issue. I think this is related to the reported issue from a few people (including myself) who have had the camera attempt to take a picture but instead get a black frame. I could tell when this was going to happen because the sound of the mirror being raised was much quieter than normal suggesting it was still down when the shutter opened. And then there is the other issue where the K-3 just apparently locks up solid requiring a battery removal/replacement. These may be all related somehow, either in firmware code or mechanics, since there are now separate motors controlling the aperture, mirror and shutter in the K-3. This would require a logical coordination between all three motors that may not be there all the time. Hopefully PRI is investigating and will provide a solution.

Jack

Rite · 03-03-2014, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Are you sure? Reference please.

Steve

----------------------------------------------

The inference was that Pentax is aware of the shutter/mirror/low power/battery grip issue(s) and is working on a firmware fix.

What other means is there of correcting it other than either a firmware fix or sending it back for repairs?

Mine occurred right after I took it out of the box.

Rite ..

02-26-2014, 03:25 PM	#1
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337	Shutter Flutter Panic using BG-5 Battery Grip On Low Battery I replicated this twice now. Was using the BG-5 Battery Grip loaded with 'AA' batteries. The K-30 battery was OUT of the camera. The ONLY power source were the 'AA' batteries in the BG-5. Used the battery charge level all the way to near zero. A sudden 'Shutter Flutter' panic occurred as the 'AA' batteries were at near depletion. e.g., I hit the shutter, which was followed by UNCONTROLLED shutter response at MAXIMUM shutter rate. The K-3 was fresh, OOTB, with Firmware 1.0. Just flashed it to 1.2 Any ideas? I'm thinking it was related to the BG-5 using near-depleted 'AA' batteries. Tnx ... Rite

02-26-2014, 03:52 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	Originally posted by Rite I replicated this twice now. Was using the BG-5 Battery Grip loaded with 'AA' batteries. The K-30 battery was OUT of the camera. The ONLY power source were the 'AA' batteries in the BG-5. Used the battery charge level all the way to near zero. A sudden 'Shutter Flutter' panic occurred as the 'AA' batteries were at near depletion. e.g., I hit the shutter, which was followed by UNCONTROLLED shutter response at MAXIMUM shutter rate. The K-3 was fresh, OOTB, with Firmware 1.0. Just flashed it to 1.2 Any ideas? I'm thinking it was related to the BG-5 using near-depleted 'AA' batteries. Tnx ... Rite 1.02 should make your camera more stable. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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02-26-2014, 03:45 PM	#2
DSims Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,236	Originally posted by Rite Any ideas? I'm thinking it was related to the BG-5 using near-depleted 'AA' batteries. It probably was. If you used Eneloops it would likely not happen, because they hold a near-constant voltage until they're completely depleted. The other batteries I like to use are Energizer Ultimate Lithiums, which do well, but they still exhibit a significant voltage drop near the end of their life.

02-26-2014, 04:04 PM - 1 Like	#4
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	To be pedantic, it is not a shutter flutter but a mirror flutter. The shutter does not open when this occurs. Had this happen just last night. Had the astro photo setup going when all of a sudden "battery depleted" flashed on the screen and the runaway mirror happened. Turns out I had exhausted my external power supply as well as the internal battery. Just a confirmation that the runaway mirror does occur when the power feed to the camera stops. Whether this is its only trigger is unknown. Jack

02-26-2014, 04:49 PM	#5
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337 Original Poster	Originally posted by jbinpg To be pedantic, it is not a shutter flutter but a mirror flutter. The shutter does not open when this occurs. Had this happen just last night. Had the astro photo setup going when all of a sudden "battery depleted" flashed on the screen and the runaway mirror happened. Turns out I had exhausted my external power supply as well as the internal battery. Just a confirmation that the runaway mirror does occur when the power feed to the camera stops. Whether this is its only trigger is unknown. Jack ----------------------------------------------- I should know better than to use plain alkalines anyway, but it does appear to be a 'known' anomaly. I stumbled onto it while the regular camera battery was charging (for the first time). Meanwhile, I am running old 'A' lenses through the K-3 and having a blast with it. The autofocus on modern lenses is fantastic, BTW.

02-26-2014, 07:00 PM	#6
TaiChiTom Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 318	I experienced the mirror flutter yesterday. Though I've had the camera for several weeks, this was the first time I had it out for a hike. Freshly charged battery. Turned the camera on the first time and the flutter began. Turned the power off and it continued. I was in the process of taking the camera off the tripod to remove the battery when it stopped. No harm done and I continued shooting normally. I have firmware 1.02 installed.

02-26-2014, 11:47 PM	#7
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaiChiTom I experienced the mirror flutter yesterday. Though I've had the camera for several weeks, this was the first time I had it out for a hike. Freshly charged battery. Turned the camera on the first time and the flutter began. Turned the power off and it continued. I was in the process of taking the camera off the tripod to remove the battery when it stopped. No harm done and I continued shooting normally. I have firmware 1.02 installed. ----------------------------------------------- I'm not liking the sound of that. LoL - when it happened (twice) I was sitting next to my wife and she had the dog in her lap. The flutter sound scared the dog to the point of barking and the wife said, "Isn't that the new camera you just took out of the box? Does it have a warranty?" Yours fluttered on a FRESHLY CHARGED BATTERY being used from inside the body. I've only gone through one battery recharge, but the original incident started while using the battery grip using 'AA' alkalines, and only then when those had been nearly depleted. I see 1.03 heading our way soon.

02-27-2014, 12:00 PM	#8
PALADIN85020 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 442	I've only had the mirror flutter thing happen once, right after I got the K-3 in November. I don't recall whether the battery was depleted or not. I now watch the battery indicator, and when it moves down from the "full charge" icon, I put in a full-charged battery. I rotate through 3 of them. I have not had another incident of mirror flutter, and am currently using firmware v. 1.02. While I have the add-on grip, I have not yet had occasion to use it, either with AAs or the rechargeable battery. I do keep lithium AAs in it as an emergency power backup. "Just once" in about four months of use, and early on, is not a deal killer for me. I see no point in returning the camera for another that's made just the same way. I like the K-3 very much, will continue to use it, and hope that firmware v. 1.03 will finally address and solve the problem. I also have a K-5, and was surprised that others report a similar mirror flutter problem with that. Mine never did that under any circumstances. I keep the K-5 as a very capable backup; if my K-3 ever goes belly up and has to be returned for service, I'm still well equipped. John

02-27-2014, 12:47 PM	#9
Little Ray New Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 18	Originally posted by Rite I see 1.03 heading our way soon. Hello, Where do you see information about 1.03? Best, Little Ray

03-01-2014, 12:14 PM	#10
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337 Original Poster	The mirror flutter issue on the K-3 would/could/should be resolved with the next firmware revision, which has not been released yet (1.03). This is in no way a deal breaker, just a minor anomaly that otherwise has zero impact on the fantastic performance of the K-3. I will say it is the highest performing camera I have ever owned, and that spans dozens of great cameras over the past forty years. It is good to be aware of it though. Rite .. -------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Little Ray Hello, Where do you see information about 1.03? Best, Little Ray

03-01-2014, 01:06 PM	#11
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Unfortunately, this does negatively impact those doing timelapse photography using the interval setting. One person has documented her troubles extensively in this forum. Do a search for timelapse and you should find it. It may be a small subset of K-3 users but it is still a problem. Jack

03-02-2014, 12:52 PM	#12
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337 Original Poster	Originally posted by jbinpg Unfortunately, this does negatively impact those doing timelapse photography using the interval setting. One person has documented her troubles extensively in this forum. Do a search for timelapse and you should find it. It may be a small subset of K-3 users but it is still a problem. Jack --------------------------------------------------- Thanks for bringing that up. I was planning on doing some time lapse this summer. Crud .. ---------- Post added 03-02-2014 at 02:05 PM ---------- Instead of 'mirror flutter,' check out this 'machinegunning' effect right before the camera fails. Originally posted by fcrespo Thanks, but I checked that already. It was machine-gunning even when the menu was set clearly in single-frame shooting. Now I can't verify even that because the camera does not power on. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/253398-k3-died-me.html#post2723940

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03-02-2014, 02:29 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Rite The mirror flutter issue on the K-3 would/could/should be resolved with the next firmware revision, which has not been released yet (1.03). Are you sure? Reference please. Steve

03-02-2014, 03:50 PM	#14
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	@Rite - In every described case of the machine-gun issue, no images have been taken by the K-3. This rules out the shutter being open during the event. It seems to be purely a mirror issue. I think this is related to the reported issue from a few people (including myself) who have had the camera attempt to take a picture but instead get a black frame. I could tell when this was going to happen because the sound of the mirror being raised was much quieter than normal suggesting it was still down when the shutter opened. And then there is the other issue where the K-3 just apparently locks up solid requiring a battery removal/replacement. These may be all related somehow, either in firmware code or mechanics, since there are now separate motors controlling the aperture, mirror and shutter in the K-3. This would require a logical coordination between all three motors that may not be there all the time. Hopefully PRI is investigating and will provide a solution. Jack

03-03-2014, 12:19 AM	#15
Rite Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 337 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Are you sure? Reference please. Steve ---------------------------------------------- The inference was that Pentax is aware of the shutter/mirror/low power/battery grip issue(s) and is working on a firmware fix. What other means is there of correcting it other than either a firmware fix or sending it back for repairs? Mine occurred right after I took it out of the box. Rite ..