Capture One 7.2.1 supports K-3

Chris Mak · 04-14-2014, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I found your thread at the PO forum and completely understand your frustration.

I know how irritating incorrect colours are and for PO to come up with such a bad profile after all this time is very unsatisfactory, to say the least. This reminds me of "Bibble" whose Pentax profiles were damaged quite a bit and the developers had a rather bad attitude about it. I hope PO will prove to be better and to be hearing from you that you were happy with your K-5 profile, is encouraging.

As a K-5 II owner and current Lightroom (3.6) user, I'm currently unhappy with the Adobe Standard, the "Embedded" and my custom X-rite color passport camera profiles. I've reported on my troubles in a respective PO forum post (in your thread).

I'm considering switching from LR to CO. Although I love LR's UI, I'm irritated by the appalling Adobe QC (non-existent), and if LR disappears into the "cloud" I'll dump it anyhow.

I posted a questions about CO at the CO forum. If you could help answering some of them, that would be most appreciated.

I read your post, and a few remarks: X-rite is indeed not supported in CO1. It creates a different kind of profile (DNG profile) and CO1 only supports .icc profiles, that define the camera color space. I like the concept of customizing the color space definition by means of editing the .icc profile (in the advanced color editor), because working directly on the color space, there is no recalculating going on after intitial raw conversion. The saved .icc profile in the advanced color editor is literally a redefinition of the cameras color space. It works very well, (I used it to slightly temper the red color cast in the K5IIs generic profile and the result was very good).
Even the resaved (after edit) K3 generic profile now gives me acceptable results, but the downside is that you have to do it all by eyesight.
Creating a .icc camera profile scientifically requires far too expensive hard and software.
So when Phase one comes up with a proper profiling of the K3, the advanced color editor is superb at tweaking it to your own taste, providing it already is close. You can also save multiple profiles for different kinds of images. It sounds complicated, but is really very simple and efficient, and because the advanced color editor works directly on the .icc camera space profile, the IQ results are just very good.

However, the K3 profile is so far off, I spent literally hours to get an acceptable profile. If it is so far off, you risk tweaking forever and never getting to a good result.
By all means: if you are considering CO1, sent Phase one a message and ask after their intentions regarding proper support for the K3. It might add to the neccessity for them to raise the quality of their support for Pentax.

regards
Chris

Class A · 04-19-2014, 10:10 AM

Hi Chris,

Originally posted by Chris Mak

X-rite is indeed not supported in CO1.

Yes, I had gathered that from posts to the PO forum.

It is very nice that the advanced colour editor is available for tweaking profiles, but there should also be a way for a user to create at least a starting point for tweaking in a systematic manner.

Even if the CO camera profiles were adequate (which they are apparently not), you'd still need that if you wanted to do colour critical work with different light sources.

Originally posted by Chris Mak

By all means: if you are considering CO1, sent Phase one a message and ask after their intentions regarding proper support for the K3. It might add to the neccessity for them to raise the quality of their support for Pentax.

Frankly, I'm disappointed with the lack of response on PO's behalf.

I've noticed PO employees respond to a lot of posts, but they didn't feel it was worth their time to respond to someone currently using Lightroom but considering CO.

I'm not after a K-3 profile but wanted to know what their policy is regarding "out of camera DNGs" and "converted DNGs". Too bad they didn't want to answer these questions. At least, they did not spread FUD about DNG like the Bibble engineers did when I asked them the same questions quite a while ago.

Lightroom's IQ is good enough for me. The only thing that bothers me are the K-5 II colours. Given that PO does seem to be capable and/or willing to provide better colour support for Pentax, it does not seem like CO is a viable alternative for me.

I may give CO a spin at some point in the future when I feel like it just to see how my K-5 II files look with their profile, but the results of my attempt to connect with PO does not make me believe I'd be better off with them.

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04-14-2014, 12:50 AM	#16
Chris Mak Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 639	Originally posted by Class A I found your thread at the PO forum and completely understand your frustration. I know how irritating incorrect colours are and for PO to come up with such a bad profile after all this time is very unsatisfactory, to say the least. This reminds me of "Bibble" whose Pentax profiles were damaged quite a bit and the developers had a rather bad attitude about it. I hope PO will prove to be better and to be hearing from you that you were happy with your K-5 profile, is encouraging. As a K-5 II owner and current Lightroom (3.6) user, I'm currently unhappy with the Adobe Standard, the "Embedded" and my custom X-rite color passport camera profiles. I've reported on my troubles in a respective PO forum post (in your thread). I'm considering switching from LR to CO. Although I love LR's UI, I'm irritated by the appalling Adobe QC (non-existent), and if LR disappears into the "cloud" I'll dump it anyhow. I posted a questions about CO at the CO forum. If you could help answering some of them, that would be most appreciated. I read your post, and a few remarks: X-rite is indeed not supported in CO1. It creates a different kind of profile (DNG profile) and CO1 only supports .icc profiles, that define the camera color space. I like the concept of customizing the color space definition by means of editing the .icc profile (in the advanced color editor), because working directly on the color space, there is no recalculating going on after intitial raw conversion. The saved .icc profile in the advanced color editor is literally a redefinition of the cameras color space. It works very well, (I used it to slightly temper the red color cast in the K5IIs generic profile and the result was very good). Even the resaved (after edit) K3 generic profile now gives me acceptable results, but the downside is that you have to do it all by eyesight. Creating a .icc camera profile scientifically requires far too expensive hard and software. So when Phase one comes up with a proper profiling of the K3, the advanced color editor is superb at tweaking it to your own taste, providing it already is close. You can also save multiple profiles for different kinds of images. It sounds complicated, but is really very simple and efficient, and because the advanced color editor works directly on the .icc camera space profile, the IQ results are just very good. However, the K3 profile is so far off, I spent literally hours to get an acceptable profile. If it is so far off, you risk tweaking forever and never getting to a good result. By all means: if you are considering CO1, sent Phase one a message and ask after their intentions regarding proper support for the K3. It might add to the neccessity for them to raise the quality of their support for Pentax. regards Chris

04-19-2014, 10:10 AM	#17
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Hi Chris, Originally posted by Chris Mak X-rite is indeed not supported in CO1. Yes, I had gathered that from posts to the PO forum. It is very nice that the advanced colour editor is available for tweaking profiles, but there should also be a way for a user to create at least a starting point for tweaking in a systematic manner. Even if the CO camera profiles were adequate (which they are apparently not), you'd still need that if you wanted to do colour critical work with different light sources. Originally posted by Chris Mak By all means: if you are considering CO1, sent Phase one a message and ask after their intentions regarding proper support for the K3. It might add to the neccessity for them to raise the quality of their support for Pentax. Frankly, I'm disappointed with the lack of response on PO's behalf. I've noticed PO employees respond to a lot of posts, but they didn't feel it was worth their time to respond to someone currently using Lightroom but considering CO. I'm not after a K-3 profile but wanted to know what their policy is regarding "out of camera DNGs" and "converted DNGs". Too bad they didn't want to answer these questions. At least, they did not spread FUD about DNG like the Bibble engineers did when I asked them the same questions quite a while ago. Lightroom's IQ is good enough for me. The only thing that bothers me are the K-5 II colours. Given that PO does seem to be capable and/or willing to provide better colour support for Pentax, it does not seem like CO is a viable alternative for me. I may give CO a spin at some point in the future when I feel like it just to see how my K-5 II files look with their profile, but the results of my attempt to connect with PO does not make me believe I'd be better off with them.