K3 concerns resolved completely !

Dlanor Sekao · 01-19-2015, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by ggascay

I feel I'm in the same situation and hopefully can work through it... I've used the k-500 for the past 15 months and got some excellent results. Now comparing with the new K3 I still can't seem to match the same quality as the 16MP sensor on the K500. I keep switching back to the K500 to find shots to keep. Same lenses, locations and subjects (hummingbirds) and the K3 keeps losing out. Seems I can't resolve the feather detail with the K3 compared to the K500...
I'm going to have to setup a test environment to do some critical comparisons, then will have to try the suggestions and start over from scratch and compare again.
One Question: With the differences in sensor resolution (16 vs 24), I should still be able to crop a test sheet photo to the same physical viewing size between the two for A/B comparison, even though the crop factor will be different right? I'm thinking for the images to be cropped to the same size, the 16MP might be 100% and the 24MP will be 66% or something similar...

I may be wrong...But crop size of either will be the same. Its a % size of the image....not a percentage on sensor size....I think anyway ???
For me I had to turn of SR and just about everything else. I cant really help you because I never exceed ISO400 with my shooting style.
Experiment some with AA filter off and minimal NR settings.....and minimal auto settings.
I still use K30 a lot more than K3 too. The K3 is a bird of a different color....You simply cant use the same settings as you did with the K30/K50.

ggascay · 01-19-2015, 07:20 PM

For reference, My typical settings are TAv mode keeping ISO at 400 max. Shutter is usually 1/1000 to 1/4000 at 5.6 aperture in full sunlight. This is using an FA 100mm 2.8 macro at about 1.5 meters from subject and on a tripod.
AA and SR are off, but need to recheck a few of the other auto NR settings although they shouldn't (assumed) be applied. I'm still learning the nuances of the new body, but its taking a while...

stevebrot · 01-19-2015, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by ggascay

I should still be able to crop a test sheet photo to the same physical viewing size between the two for A/B comparison

Cropping will not do what you desire. Down-sampling will. Create a 16Mpx tiff (4928px X 3264px) from the original 24Mpx RAW and use that for the comparison to the K-500. Alternatively you can up-sample a K-500 image to 24Mpx (6016px X 4000px) for comparison to the K-3.

Steve

stevebrot · 01-19-2015, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Down-sampling will.

You may expect an additional post suggesting that the common resizing methods will not provide the best results. That may be the case or perhaps not. I have done the comparison in question using the default from Lightroom and was happy.

Steve

Dlanor Sekao · 01-20-2015, 09:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

Cropping will not do what you desire. Down-sampling will. Create a 16Mpx tiff (4928px X 3264px) from the original 24Mpx RAW and use that for the comparison to the K-500. Alternatively you can up-sample a K-500 image to 24Mpx (6016px X 4000px) for comparison to the K-3.

Steve

Thank you so much for sharing this. I just checked some of mine I thought were bad....and I see now they are simply as good if not better ! This really puts the final perspective on the K3 to allow us to actually compare Apples to Apples now !

drypenn · 01-20-2015, 11:07 PM

Coming from K30, my only complaint after two days with the K3 is the AF button placement and the focus select. I also feel that the Stills-Video switch is a waste of valuable real estate in a compact camera.

The AF is everything I have imagined it to be. It has improved my FA43 and DFA100 tremendously, as they now confidently lock into focus.

cbope · 01-21-2015, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by drypenn

Coming from K30, my only complaint after two days with the K3 is the AF button placement and the focus select. I also feel that the Stills-Video switch is a waste of valuable real estate in a compact camera.

The AF is everything I have imagined it to be. It has improved my FA43 and DFA100 tremendously, as they now confidently lock into focus.

Good to hear, I've been patiently waiting for better weekend weather so I can take my new K-3 out shooting. I calibrated all my AF lenses last night so I'm ready, expecting much better performance than my K-5, which was often hit-or-miss with critical focus.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who regrets the wasted space taken up by the still/video toggle on the back. I would have been happy to leave it on the mode dial like the K-5, and use that space for a more important control.

Finchj · 01-25-2015, 09:16 AM

Im a third one thinking the video/stills switch was a poor idea. That and the OK button being a single function, I can't believe how annoying the new "toggle AF Point/ swap SD card" button is in comparison to how my K-7 functioned.

Other than that, the camera is a beast. I absolutely need to upgrade from the 18-55WR though. It simply doesn't take advantage of the new sensor like the DA*50-135...

**savoche** · 01-25-2015, 10:30 AM

Yep, the video switch is a waste of space. And I agree on the lock switch, too - I want the mode wheel locked anyway, and the switch is too easy to unlock. Can't really get used to the AF point selection toggle button, either; can never find it without looking.

I much prefer the new placing of the AF button over where it was on the K-5, though.

cbope · 01-25-2015, 12:03 PM

I guess I'm the only one who liked the AF button placement on the K-5. On the K-3 I have to loosen my grip slightly to stretch for it.

**savoche** · 01-25-2015, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by cbope

I guess I'm the only one who liked the AF button placement on the K-5. On the K-3 I have to loosen my grip slightly to stretch for it.

For me it's the K-5 that makes me loosen my grip... I suppose it's rather difficult to make a grip and layout that suits all shapes and sizes of hands. Both the K-3 and the K-5 are very, very good in that respect, but overall I think I prefer the K-3 way.

One good thing about removing the movie mode from the mode wheel is that we now have three usable user modes on the wheel. And even though I would have preferred to have focus and metering modes on switches like the K-5 had, I do like the possibility of including those settings in the user modes - and thus making user modes even more useful.

(Of course, I always lock exposure whenever I mean to focus with my K-5 now

)

FunnyUncle · 02-03-2015, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by Dlanor Sekao

well......I finally figured out what was "WRONG" with my K3 !
It was........"ME" !

I almost didnt buy this camera as some of the reviews kept mentioning the noise on the large MP sensor ?
However when Quickandone dropped their price on Ebay I simply couldnt resist and forked out the cash.

It seemed that when I first tried it out all I got was noise.....noise everywher....even the Live View looked noisier than my K30 !
I didnt like the different control layout at all......it wasnt like my K30.
I didnt know how to handle the added settings....It was different than my K30.
I didnt like the rear display that was supposed to be better in live view than any predescessor.....it didnt look any better...well maybe a bit.
The You tube reviews had me turning everything either off or down and I was "LOOKING" for the reported noise issues right from the start.

In all of the new excitement of having one of the latest Pentax Flagship models in my hands.....I wasnt immediately getting anything that resembled even good !

Arrgggghhhh....I shouldnt have bought this K3 !....Its just like the nay-sayers warned ! I just should have bought a replacement K5II or even a second K30 would have been better.......Buyer remorse set in quickly !
I felt let down and tried consoling myself it would be a quick sell on Ebay and then I could ponder the K5II vs K5IIs.....ok.....I can handle that.

I had hurriedly changed setting after setting doing simply the same as on my K30 looking for the sharpest settings . I did get some good shots here and there , but nothing was coming together like it had on my previous cameras. Nothing was excitedly sharp , and when I zoomed in on the LCD it all looked like crap somewhere.....seemed like noise was everywhere.

I called my friend Jason who is overseas... and explained my dilema. Right off the bat he said it wasnt the camera.....He said it was me !
He told me to quit looking for a problem when there wasnt an obvious one. He told me that the increase MP sensor just needed to be steady when shooting and more prone to any movement being more obvious when viewing/ peeping at pixels.
And he told me that I needed to view "everything" on a monitor and not to rely much on the rear display for anything but obvious compensation and a confirmation of close exposure.
He explained that pixel peeping would look worse for sure ! Its a huge file ! Its NOT a K30 , K5 , or K anything previous....Its a K3 !

We sat down on the phone and the very first thing I did was a factory Default Reset......................... Then he insisted that I re-installed the K3 firmware (which I thought was unescessary but did anyway)....................................... Then we went through the book settings , menus , and everything for over an hour and a half.......... discussed about everything possible setting wise.......................... And last but not least....I got a thorough tongue lashing for not Formatting my SD Cards at all before doing anything.

How could he guess all of this and know so much ? Well.....it seems he upgraded from two K5 bodies and a K20........to two K3 bodies a few months ago !

He went through some of the initial quandry and confusion also. What was different ? He is used to working with Adobe and all its wonders...Im not.
He learned long ago to not trust displays for much and I didnt.................. and he learned that large MP sensors have weaknesses and strengths and works around them.

To get back to the point..... Im now using very few auto anything settings on the K3. Most everything is turned off or down to a minimum , and since I only shoot M mode I can get away with it !
Slow NR Off.....High ISO NR Off....AA filter Off....auto ISO set to 100-400.... SR Off or ON....Really just a Factory default with a purpose this time.......Im learning quickly.

Bottom line ?....................................This camera is AWESOME !
Im not exactly sure it was any ONE single thing that I got wrong , but maybe a small variety that didnt come together properly. Quite honestly I thought I had it isolated a couple times with unpredictable results. But I just cant keep wondering about him accusing a Non formatted SD card as a culprit ???

"WHATEVER"......it... "WAS".......is NO longer plagueing me.....its gone !
The "something" that was amiss.........was not the K3's fault ! Ultimately......It was mine !

I love my K3 ! Its really impressive now and the old glass has new life !

Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/287724-k...uch-noise.html

stevebrot · 02-03-2015, 05:03 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by FunnyUncle

Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... http://www.gurroa.com/Milos/

Spamming other threads is bad form and often not tolerated.

Steve

Tom S. · 02-03-2015, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by FunnyUncle

Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/287724-k...uch-noise.html

I have changed the link in your post to take people back to the thread you posted originally. One thread on your problem is enough - there is no need to go to other threads. You have received some very good advise in your original thread, which I suggest you review and see if your problem isn't solved by the suggestions made.

Dlanor Sekao · 02-05-2015, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by FunnyUncle

Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/287724-k...uch-noise.html

I think it just a bad bad camera.....PM me and I will buy it for a fair price for a defective piece of crap. Sorry you chose to buy it. Just sell it on Ebay and move on to a different manufacturer. I think maybe a Canon Rebel 5Ti might be right up your alley! Sorry to hear about all the image problems....I KNOW how it is because I have a K3. I know EXACTLY what the problem is ...... Its YOU !
PS.......Sell me the 18-55 also...I could always use another inferior lens for my collection.

01-19-2015, 07:20 PM	#17
ggascay Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Dunnellon, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 61	For reference, My typical settings are TAv mode keeping ISO at 400 max. Shutter is usually 1/1000 to 1/4000 at 5.6 aperture in full sunlight. This is using an FA 100mm 2.8 macro at about 1.5 meters from subject and on a tripod. AA and SR are off, but need to recheck a few of the other auto NR settings although they shouldn't (assumed) be applied. I'm still learning the nuances of the new body, but its taking a while... Last edited by ggascay; 01-19-2015 at 07:22 PM. Reason: added text

01-19-2015, 08:50 PM	#18
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ggascay I should still be able to crop a test sheet photo to the same physical viewing size between the two for A/B comparison Cropping will not do what you desire. Down-sampling will. Create a 16Mpx tiff (4928px X 3264px) from the original 24Mpx RAW and use that for the comparison to the K-500. Alternatively you can up-sample a K-500 image to 24Mpx (6016px X 4000px) for comparison to the K-3. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 01-19-2015 at 08:57 PM.

02-03-2015, 07:59 AM	#27
FunnyUncle Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41	Originally posted by Dlanor Sekao well......I finally figured out what was "WRONG" with my K3 ! It was........"ME" ! I almost didnt buy this camera as some of the reviews kept mentioning the noise on the large MP sensor ? However when Quickandone dropped their price on Ebay I simply couldnt resist and forked out the cash. It seemed that when I first tried it out all I got was noise.....noise everywher....even the Live View looked noisier than my K30 ! I didnt like the different control layout at all......it wasnt like my K30. I didnt know how to handle the added settings....It was different than my K30. I didnt like the rear display that was supposed to be better in live view than any predescessor.....it didnt look any better...well maybe a bit. The You tube reviews had me turning everything either off or down and I was "LOOKING" for the reported noise issues right from the start. In all of the new excitement of having one of the latest Pentax Flagship models in my hands.....I wasnt immediately getting anything that resembled even good ! Arrgggghhhh....I shouldnt have bought this K3 !....Its just like the nay-sayers warned ! I just should have bought a replacement K5II or even a second K30 would have been better.......Buyer remorse set in quickly ! I felt let down and tried consoling myself it would be a quick sell on Ebay and then I could ponder the K5II vs K5IIs.....ok.....I can handle that. I had hurriedly changed setting after setting doing simply the same as on my K30 looking for the sharpest settings . I did get some good shots here and there , but nothing was coming together like it had on my previous cameras. Nothing was excitedly sharp , and when I zoomed in on the LCD it all looked like crap somewhere.....seemed like noise was everywhere. I called my friend Jason who is overseas... and explained my dilema. Right off the bat he said it wasnt the camera.....He said it was me ! He told me to quit looking for a problem when there wasnt an obvious one. He told me that the increase MP sensor just needed to be steady when shooting and more prone to any movement being more obvious when viewing/ peeping at pixels. And he told me that I needed to view "everything" on a monitor and not to rely much on the rear display for anything but obvious compensation and a confirmation of close exposure. He explained that pixel peeping would look worse for sure ! Its a huge file ! Its NOT a K30 , K5 , or K anything previous....Its a K3 ! We sat down on the phone and the very first thing I did was a factory Default Reset......................... Then he insisted that I re-installed the K3 firmware (which I thought was unescessary but did anyway)....................................... Then we went through the book settings , menus , and everything for over an hour and a half.......... discussed about everything possible setting wise.......................... And last but not least....I got a thorough tongue lashing for not Formatting my SD Cards at all before doing anything. How could he guess all of this and know so much ? Well.....it seems he upgraded from two K5 bodies and a K20........to two K3 bodies a few months ago ! He went through some of the initial quandry and confusion also. What was different ? He is used to working with Adobe and all its wonders...Im not. He learned long ago to not trust displays for much and I didnt.................. and he learned that large MP sensors have weaknesses and strengths and works around them. To get back to the point..... Im now using very few auto anything settings on the K3. Most everything is turned off or down to a minimum , and since I only shoot M mode I can get away with it ! Slow NR Off.....High ISO NR Off....AA filter Off....auto ISO set to 100-400.... SR Off or ON....Really just a Factory default with a purpose this time.......Im learning quickly. Bottom line ?....................................This camera is AWESOME ! Im not exactly sure it was any ONE single thing that I got wrong , but maybe a small variety that didnt come together properly. Quite honestly I thought I had it isolated a couple times with unpredictable results. But I just cant keep wondering about him accusing a Non formatted SD card as a culprit ??? "WHATEVER"......it... "WAS".......is NO longer plagueing me.....its gone ! The "something" that was amiss.........was not the K3's fault ! Ultimately......It was mine ! I love my K3 ! Its really impressive now and the old glass has new life ! Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/287724-k...uch-noise.html Last edited by Tom S.; 02-03-2015 at 05:13 PM.

01-19-2015, 07:11 PM	#16
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457 Original Poster	Originally posted by ggascay I feel I'm in the same situation and hopefully can work through it... I've used the k-500 for the past 15 months and got some excellent results. Now comparing with the new K3 I still can't seem to match the same quality as the 16MP sensor on the K500. I keep switching back to the K500 to find shots to keep. Same lenses, locations and subjects (hummingbirds) and the K3 keeps losing out. Seems I can't resolve the feather detail with the K3 compared to the K500... I'm going to have to setup a test environment to do some critical comparisons, then will have to try the suggestions and start over from scratch and compare again. One Question: With the differences in sensor resolution (16 vs 24), I should still be able to crop a test sheet photo to the same physical viewing size between the two for A/B comparison, even though the crop factor will be different right? I'm thinking for the images to be cropped to the same size, the 16MP might be 100% and the 24MP will be 66% or something similar... I may be wrong...But crop size of either will be the same. Its a % size of the image....not a percentage on sensor size....I think anyway ??? For me I had to turn of SR and just about everything else. I cant really help you because I never exceed ISO400 with my shooting style. Experiment some with AA filter off and minimal NR settings.....and minimal auto settings. I still use K30 a lot more than K3 too. The K3 is a bird of a different color....You simply cant use the same settings as you did with the K30/K50.

01-19-2015, 09:11 PM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by stevebrot Down-sampling will. You may expect an additional post suggesting that the common resizing methods will not provide the best results. That may be the case or perhaps not. I have done the comparison in question using the default from Lightroom and was happy. Steve

01-20-2015, 09:11 AM - 1 Like	#20
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Cropping will not do what you desire. Down-sampling will. Create a 16Mpx tiff (4928px X 3264px) from the original 24Mpx RAW and use that for the comparison to the K-500. Alternatively you can up-sample a K-500 image to 24Mpx (6016px X 4000px) for comparison to the K-3. Steve Thank you so much for sharing this. I just checked some of mine I thought were bad....and I see now they are simply as good if not better ! This really puts the final perspective on the K3 to allow us to actually compare Apples to Apples now !

01-20-2015, 11:07 PM	#21
drypenn Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 963	Coming from K30, my only complaint after two days with the K3 is the AF button placement and the focus select. I also feel that the Stills-Video switch is a waste of valuable real estate in a compact camera. The AF is everything I have imagined it to be. It has improved my FA43 and DFA100 tremendously, as they now confidently lock into focus.

01-21-2015, 05:18 AM	#22
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	Originally posted by drypenn Coming from K30, my only complaint after two days with the K3 is the AF button placement and the focus select. I also feel that the Stills-Video switch is a waste of valuable real estate in a compact camera. The AF is everything I have imagined it to be. It has improved my FA43 and DFA100 tremendously, as they now confidently lock into focus. Good to hear, I've been patiently waiting for better weekend weather so I can take my new K-3 out shooting. I calibrated all my AF lenses last night so I'm ready, expecting much better performance than my K-5, which was often hit-or-miss with critical focus. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who regrets the wasted space taken up by the still/video toggle on the back. I would have been happy to leave it on the mode dial like the K-5, and use that space for a more important control.

01-25-2015, 09:16 AM	#23
Finchj Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 142	Im a third one thinking the video/stills switch was a poor idea. That and the OK button being a single function, I can't believe how annoying the new "toggle AF Point/ swap SD card" button is in comparison to how my K-7 functioned. Other than that, the camera is a beast. I absolutely need to upgrade from the 18-55WR though. It simply doesn't take advantage of the new sensor like the DA*50-135...

01-25-2015, 10:30 AM	#24
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	Yep, the video switch is a waste of space. And I agree on the lock switch, too - I want the mode wheel locked anyway, and the switch is too easy to unlock. Can't really get used to the AF point selection toggle button, either; can never find it without looking. I much prefer the new placing of the AF button over where it was on the K-5, though.

01-25-2015, 12:03 PM	#25
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	I guess I'm the only one who liked the AF button placement on the K-5. On the K-3 I have to loosen my grip slightly to stretch for it.

01-25-2015, 12:53 PM	#26
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	Originally posted by cbope I guess I'm the only one who liked the AF button placement on the K-5. On the K-3 I have to loosen my grip slightly to stretch for it. For me it's the K-5 that makes me loosen my grip... I suppose it's rather difficult to make a grip and layout that suits all shapes and sizes of hands. Both the K-3 and the K-5 are very, very good in that respect, but overall I think I prefer the K-3 way. One good thing about removing the movie mode from the mode wheel is that we now have three usable user modes on the wheel. And even though I would have preferred to have focus and metering modes on switches like the K-5 had, I do like the possibility of including those settings in the user modes - and thus making user modes even more useful. (Of course, I always lock exposure whenever I mean to focus with my K-5 now )

02-03-2015, 05:03 PM - 1 Like	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by FunnyUncle Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... http://www.gurroa.com/Milos/ Spamming other threads is bad form and often not tolerated. Steve

02-03-2015, 05:16 PM	#29
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Originally posted by FunnyUncle Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/287724-k...uch-noise.html I have changed the link in your post to take people back to the thread you posted originally. One thread on your problem is enough - there is no need to go to other threads. You have received some very good advise in your original thread, which I suggest you review and see if your problem isn't solved by the suggestions made.

02-05-2015, 11:51 AM	#30
Dlanor Sekao Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,457 Original Poster	Originally posted by FunnyUncle Hallo... check my confused pictures... I have everything turned off too, but results are bad... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/287724-k...uch-noise.html I think it just a bad bad camera.....PM me and I will buy it for a fair price for a defective piece of crap. Sorry you chose to buy it. Just sell it on Ebay and move on to a different manufacturer. I think maybe a Canon Rebel 5Ti might be right up your alley! Sorry to hear about all the image problems....I KNOW how it is because I have a K3. I know EXACTLY what the problem is ...... Its YOU ! PS.......Sell me the 18-55 also...I could always use another inferior lens for my collection.