LV and histogram not accurately responding to exposure changes?

powasky · 01-07-2015, 12:29 PM

Hi All,

I've noticed that while using live view, my K-3 will only display an EV change of -2, regardless of how much I compensate farther down than that. The histogram in LV is the same - only showing a compensation down to EV -2. Does anyone know why this is or if there is some sort of workaround?

Thanks!

enoeske · 01-07-2015, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by powasky

Hi All,

I've noticed that while using live view, my K-3 will only display an EV change of -2, regardless of how much I compensate farther down than that. The histogram in LV is the same - only showing a compensation down to EV -2. Does anyone know why this is or if there is some sort of workaround?

Thanks!

Do you have your exposure compensation set to -2 ev?

Adam · 01-07-2015, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by powasky

Hi All,

I've noticed that while using live view, my K-3 will only display an EV change of -2, regardless of how much I compensate farther down than that. The histogram in LV is the same - only showing a compensation down to EV -2. Does anyone know why this is or if there is some sort of workaround?

Thanks!

I don't believe the K-3's LV offers a real-time exposure preview. I think the 645Z was the first Pentax to have that feature, and only in M mode.

powasky · 01-07-2015, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

Do you have your exposure compensation set to -2 ev?

I'm not sure what you mean. Looking at the display on top of the camera and on the rear during LV, the indicator is in the middle of the EV compensation "grid", until I move it downward, where the histo and LV will stop showing real-time changes at EV -2. Is there somewhere else where exposure compensation is set that I need to check?

---------- Post added 01-07-15 at 03:12 PM ----------

Originally posted by Adam

I don't believe the K-3's LV offers a real-time exposure preview. I think the 645Z was the first Pentax to have that feature, and only in M mode.

That cannot be correct because the LV on my K-3 shows a real-time preview between -2 and +2 EV. I just was curious if it was a malfunction in my camera that it didn't show outside that range, or if it was intended.

enoeske · 01-07-2015, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by powasky

...the indicator is in the middle of the EV compensation "grid", until I move it downward.

what are you doing to make it move downward?

powasky · 01-07-2015, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

what are you doing to make it move downward?

Shutter speed, set to my rear dial.

enoeske · 01-07-2015, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by powasky

Shutter speed, set to my rear dial.

Is this happening when you are in M mode? Does one of the values (shutter, aperture, ISO) start flashing when you go beyond -2 EV?

powasky · 01-07-2015, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

Is this happening when you are in M mode? Does one of the values (shutter, aperture, ISO) start flashing when you go beyond -2 EV?

The same situation in manual mode - LV only shows a real-time image between -2 and +2 EV. Nothing flashes until I'm past the indicator's range of -5 or +5 EV. I'm starting to think that this is just the way it is.

I can understand not giving the real-time image in LV, but not why they won't give me the histo. Does your K-3 give you both a real-time image in LV as well as a changing histo above +2 and below -2 EV?

enoeske · 01-07-2015, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by powasky

The same situation in manual mode - LV only shows a real-time image between -2 and +2 EV. Nothing flashes until I'm past the indicator's range of -5 or +5 EV. I'm starting to think that this is just the way it is.

I can understand not giving the real-time image in LV, but not why they won't give me the histo. Does your K-3 give you both a real-time image in LV as well as a changing histo above +2 and below -2 EV?

I'll test it when I get home

stevebrot · 01-07-2015, 01:53 PM

I am not a big live view user, but I just checked out the EV comp feature on my K-3 and it provides a full +/- 5.0 EV compensation in live view with real-time update of the histogram and display brightness. I did this in all modes and with both fixed and auto ISO.

That being said, while the camera settings do provide the full range, the real-time update of histogram and display brightness does appear to be capped at +/- 2 EV from center. This makes sense in that the display brightness has limited range, but makes less sense in that the histogram apparently is driven from the display meaning that it will never vary more than +/- 2 EV.

Steve

powasky · 01-07-2015, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I am not a big live view user, but I just checked out the EV comp feature on my K-3 and it provides a full +/- 5.0 EV compensation in live view with real-time update of the histogram and display brightness. I did this in all modes and with both fixed and auto ISO.

That being said, while the camera settings do provide the full range, the real-time update of histogram and display brightness does appear to be capped at +/- 2 EV from center. This makes sense in that the display brightness has limited range, but makes less sense in that the histogram apparently is driven from the display meaning that it will never vary more than +/- 2 EV.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for checking - glad we arrived at the same conclusion, less glad that it doesn't make sense. Perhaps Ricoh could update this with a firmware update. At least the histo would be great.

I'm sure they don't care much what consumers request in updates, but is there a way to submit it? It would be super helpful (at least to me!).

stevebrot · 01-07-2015, 02:06 PM

...more...

The user should remember that the rear LCD display in live view is a live representation from the sensor, but is NOT the same as the capture image. Shadow/highlight detail in live view will probably not correspond to that in the captured image.

Steve

stevebrot · 01-07-2015, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by powasky

At least the histo would be great.

Yes, one would expect that the histogram should shift down past -2 EV. The fact that it does not casts doubt on the accuracy of the LV histogram in general.

For anyone interested in seeing what the fuss is about, the easiest way to demonstrate is to use M mode rather than the EV comp.

M mode
Live view with data display
Press green button to center the exposure scale
Change either aperture or shutter setting stepwise more than 2 stops while watching the histogram

Steve

powasky · 01-07-2015, 03:06 PM

FWIW I posted over on the "Ricoh Engagement Forums" here.

We'll see if anyone responds.

01-07-2015, 12:29 PM	#1
powasky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105	LV and histogram not accurately responding to exposure changes? Hi All, I've noticed that while using live view, my K-3 will only display an EV change of -2, regardless of how much I compensate farther down than that. The histogram in LV is the same - only showing a compensation down to EV -2. Does anyone know why this is or if there is some sort of workaround? Thanks!

01-07-2015, 01:08 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by powasky Hi All, I've noticed that while using live view, my K-3 will only display an EV change of -2, regardless of how much I compensate farther down than that. The histogram in LV is the same - only showing a compensation down to EV -2. Does anyone know why this is or if there is some sort of workaround? Thanks! I don't believe the K-3's LV offers a real-time exposure preview. I think the 645Z was the first Pentax to have that feature, and only in M mode. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

01-07-2015, 01:53 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I am not a big live view user, but I just checked out the EV comp feature on my K-3 and it provides a full +/- 5.0 EV compensation in live view with real-time update of the histogram and display brightness. I did this in all modes and with both fixed and auto ISO. That being said, while the camera settings do provide the full range, the real-time update of histogram and display brightness does appear to be capped at +/- 2 EV from center. This makes sense in that the display brightness has limited range, but makes less sense in that the histogram apparently is driven from the display meaning that it will never vary more than +/- 2 EV. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 01-07-2015 at 02:01 PM.

01-07-2015, 02:22 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by powasky At least the histo would be great. Yes, one would expect that the histogram should shift down past -2 EV. The fact that it does not casts doubt on the accuracy of the LV histogram in general. For anyone interested in seeing what the fuss is about, the easiest way to demonstrate is to use M mode rather than the EV comp. M mode Live view with data display Press green button to center the exposure scale Change either aperture or shutter setting stepwise more than 2 stops while watching the histogram Steve

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01-07-2015, 01:02 PM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by powasky Hi All, I've noticed that while using live view, my K-3 will only display an EV change of -2, regardless of how much I compensate farther down than that. The histogram in LV is the same - only showing a compensation down to EV -2. Does anyone know why this is or if there is some sort of workaround? Thanks! Do you have your exposure compensation set to -2 ev?

01-07-2015, 01:09 PM	#4
powasky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Original Poster	Originally posted by enoeske Do you have your exposure compensation set to -2 ev? I'm not sure what you mean. Looking at the display on top of the camera and on the rear during LV, the indicator is in the middle of the EV compensation "grid", until I move it downward, where the histo and LV will stop showing real-time changes at EV -2. Is there somewhere else where exposure compensation is set that I need to check? ---------- Post added 01-07-15 at 03:12 PM ---------- Originally posted by Adam I don't believe the K-3's LV offers a real-time exposure preview. I think the 645Z was the first Pentax to have that feature, and only in M mode. That cannot be correct because the LV on my K-3 shows a real-time preview between -2 and +2 EV. I just was curious if it was a malfunction in my camera that it didn't show outside that range, or if it was intended.

01-07-2015, 01:17 PM	#5
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by powasky ...the indicator is in the middle of the EV compensation "grid", until I move it downward. what are you doing to make it move downward?

01-07-2015, 01:19 PM	#6
powasky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Original Poster	Originally posted by enoeske what are you doing to make it move downward? Shutter speed, set to my rear dial.

01-07-2015, 01:26 PM	#7
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by powasky Shutter speed, set to my rear dial. Is this happening when you are in M mode? Does one of the values (shutter, aperture, ISO) start flashing when you go beyond -2 EV?

01-07-2015, 01:35 PM	#8
powasky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Original Poster	Originally posted by enoeske Is this happening when you are in M mode? Does one of the values (shutter, aperture, ISO) start flashing when you go beyond -2 EV? The same situation in manual mode - LV only shows a real-time image between -2 and +2 EV. Nothing flashes until I'm past the indicator's range of -5 or +5 EV. I'm starting to think that this is just the way it is. I can understand not giving the real-time image in LV, but not why they won't give me the histo. Does your K-3 give you both a real-time image in LV as well as a changing histo above +2 and below -2 EV?

01-07-2015, 01:51 PM	#9
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by powasky The same situation in manual mode - LV only shows a real-time image between -2 and +2 EV. Nothing flashes until I'm past the indicator's range of -5 or +5 EV. I'm starting to think that this is just the way it is. I can understand not giving the real-time image in LV, but not why they won't give me the histo. Does your K-3 give you both a real-time image in LV as well as a changing histo above +2 and below -2 EV? I'll test it when I get home

01-07-2015, 02:04 PM	#11
powasky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I am not a big live view user, but I just checked out the EV comp feature on my K-3 and it provides a full +/- 5.0 EV compensation in live view with real-time update of the histogram and display brightness. I did this in all modes and with both fixed and auto ISO. That being said, while the camera settings do provide the full range, the real-time update of histogram and display brightness does appear to be capped at +/- 2 EV from center. This makes sense in that the display brightness has limited range, but makes less sense in that the histogram apparently is driven from the display meaning that it will never vary more than +/- 2 EV. Steve Hi Steve, Thanks for checking - glad we arrived at the same conclusion, less glad that it doesn't make sense. Perhaps Ricoh could update this with a firmware update. At least the histo would be great. I'm sure they don't care much what consumers request in updates, but is there a way to submit it? It would be super helpful (at least to me!).

01-07-2015, 02:06 PM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	...more... The user should remember that the rear LCD display in live view is a live representation from the sensor, but is NOT the same as the capture image. Shadow/highlight detail in live view will probably not correspond to that in the captured image. Steve

01-07-2015, 03:06 PM	#14
powasky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 105 Original Poster	FWIW I posted over on the "Ricoh Engagement Forums" here. We'll see if anyone responds.