Exposure Bracketing Problems

stevebrot · 04-03-2015, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

Maybe that setting is used for green button stop down metering on M42 glass?

I think so with some bodies. At least that is the common suggestion when people have M42 or series-K/M metering questions. Most (all?) of the flagship bodies default to this in M-mode when the A contacts cannot be detected, but some of the consumer-level bodies will not meter unless this is explicitly set.

Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 04-03-2015 at 10:02 AM.

IchabodCrane · 04-03-2015, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Biggzie

Excellent ... that worked ... Thank you

---------- Post added 04-04-15 at 02:29 AM ----------

That depends on how you look at it, I find it not logical for the camera to change DOF while bracketing & that's the way every body has worked up to this.
I also find it annoying I couldn't find it easy in the manual or searching for help online.

I think the default of changing aperture does make sense. They have to assume that the camera is not on a tripod in which case bracketing via shutter speed change could produce blurry images. Much harder to live with than changing DOF (IMHO).

**jbinpg** · 04-03-2015, 11:10 AM

Note that with the latest v1.11 firmware update to the K-3, TaV mode will now bracket by default using the ISO and leave the shutter and aperture alone.

Jack

stevebrot · 04-03-2015, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

I think the default of changing aperture does make sense.

In many ways, yes. The general default behavior of the green button is to return the exposure to the program line or the "dumbed down" state. I have taught several people the basics of using their Pentax dSLRs and make a point this feature. To have it be different in M mode only would be inconsistent and potentially confusing.

Steve

stevebrot · 04-03-2015, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by jbinpg

Note that with the latest v1.11 firmware update to the K-3, TaV mode will now bracket by default using the ISO and leave the shutter and aperture alone.

Jack

I don't remember, how did it behave before?

Steve

(...not a big user of TAv mode...)

**jbinpg** · 04-03-2015, 12:53 PM

It followed the P line shift setting.

Biggzie · 04-03-2015, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

None of my film cameras does automatic bracketing, though my K10D worked the same as my K-3.

Your K-3 brackets from the initial reading and does not change between exposures even if the light changes.

I believe that the default setting for the green button in M mode on the K-5 is the program line. That is how it is on the K-3. I suspect that yours was moved to Tv shift at some point since that behavior makes good sense to many people who mostly use Av mode.

Steve

I haven't moved it with either of my K5 bodies or my K10 or K20 & yes I want consistent exposures even if the light changes in part of the image ...

---------- Post added 04-04-15 at 12:37 PM ----------

Originally posted by stevebrot

In many ways, yes. The general default behavior of the green button is to return the exposure to the program line or the "dumbed down" state. I have taught several people the basics of using their Pentax dSLRs and make a point this feature. To have it be different in M mode only would be inconsistent and potentially confusing.

Steve

I agree ... That's why I didn't look there ... I wasn't aware that this would be the cause of my bracketing issues
Im usually in either Av or M mode & have used the Green button lots ... I haven't dragged the K5 bodies out to see what they are set to yet

stevebrot · 04-03-2015, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Biggzie

I haven't dragged the K5 bodies out to see what they are set to yet

I will be curious to see what you find. With any luck this problem will be solved for you. Like you, I had no idea that it would affect bracketing, though it sort of makes sense now that I see it. Your use case is very interesting and maybe even worth writing up as an article. It never occurred to me to use a fully manual setting as the start point for Av bracketing.

Steve

rodeknyt · 04-09-2015, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Biggzie

Yes that is the point, exposure is changing ... I have set the ISO, Aperture & shutter speed, then Ive asked the K3 to do a 5 shot bracket ... it is doing that, but I don't want the aperture or the metering to change.

I'm late to this party, but I'm not understanding this part about not wanting the exposure to change. That is what bracketing is...changing the exposure between shots so you can either find one better than what the meter originally thought should work; or to make an HDR image.

I think you're saying there is only one specific way you want the exposure to be changed between frames, but I'm not sure.

Lorrow · 04-10-2017, 03:44 PM

Can we go a little deeper with this topic? I shoot raw and want to do exposure bracketing so I can do exposure blending in PS. I did not like my aperture changing either because it affects the DOF in my expousre. I do see that I can set my camera to AV and the aperture and ISO are locked during bracketing. The only change is shutter speed. While I want my aperture locked, I am open to having the camera adjust both my shutter & ISO. When I go the E-Dial Programming, I have quite a few choices. I can find no explanation about what each choice does. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

stevebrot · 04-11-2017, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Lorrow

Can we go a little deeper with this topic? I shoot raw and want to do exposure bracketing so I can do exposure blending in PS. I did not like my aperture changing either because it affects the DOF in my expousre. I do see that I can set my camera to AV and the aperture and ISO are locked during bracketing. The only change is shutter speed. While I want my aperture locked, I am open to having the camera adjust both my shutter & ISO. When I go the E-Dial Programming, I have quite a few choices. I can find no explanation about what each choice does. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

This is an old (now zombie) thread. Here are a few comments:

Not all the comments and conclusions on this thread are fully accurate
The following modes allow fixed aperture auto-bracket with default e-dial settings, Av and TAv
Use fixed ISO and Av mode if you need sensitivity to remain the same
M mode is also supported, but not recommended. There are two fairly grievous bugs in the bracketing implementation. See this related thread:
M Mode Anomalies: Adventures In Bracketland - PentaxForums.com
Care should be taken when doing a bracket at or near the limits for aperture, shutter speed, or ISO
The exposure shown in the viewfinder and LCD displays is the settings for the first exposure in the sequence. Depending on bracket order, it may or may not be the base exposure for the bracket.*

Steve

* It is for the default bracket order.

04-03-2015, 10:12 AM	#17
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by Biggzie Excellent ... that worked ... Thank you ---------- Post added 04-04-15 at 02:29 AM ---------- That depends on how you look at it, I find it not logical for the camera to change DOF while bracketing & that's the way every body has worked up to this. I also find it annoying I couldn't find it easy in the manual or searching for help online. I think the default of changing aperture does make sense. They have to assume that the camera is not on a tripod in which case bracketing via shutter speed change could produce blurry images. Much harder to live with than changing DOF (IMHO). Last edited by IchabodCrane; 04-03-2015 at 10:19 AM.

04-11-2017, 09:28 AM	#26
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Lorrow Can we go a little deeper with this topic? I shoot raw and want to do exposure bracketing so I can do exposure blending in PS. I did not like my aperture changing either because it affects the DOF in my expousre. I do see that I can set my camera to AV and the aperture and ISO are locked during bracketing. The only change is shutter speed. While I want my aperture locked, I am open to having the camera adjust both my shutter & ISO. When I go the E-Dial Programming, I have quite a few choices. I can find no explanation about what each choice does. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks! This is an old (now zombie) thread. Here are a few comments: Not all the comments and conclusions on this thread are fully accurate The following modes allow fixed aperture auto-bracket with default e-dial settings, Av and TAv Use fixed ISO and Av mode if you need sensitivity to remain the same M mode is also supported, but not recommended. There are two fairly grievous bugs in the bracketing implementation. See this related thread: M Mode Anomalies: Adventures In Bracketland - PentaxForums.com Care should be taken when doing a bracket at or near the limits for aperture, shutter speed, or ISO The exposure shown in the viewfinder and LCD displays is the settings for the first exposure in the sequence. Depending on bracket order, it may or may not be the base exposure for the bracket.* Steve * It is for the default bracket order. Last edited by stevebrot; 04-11-2017 at 09:52 AM.

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04-03-2015, 09:52 AM	#16
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jatrax Maybe that setting is used for green button stop down metering on M42 glass? I think so with some bodies. At least that is the common suggestion when people have M42 or series-K/M metering questions. Most (all?) of the flagship bodies default to this in M-mode when the A contacts cannot be detected, but some of the consumer-level bodies will not meter unless this is explicitly set. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 04-03-2015 at 10:02 AM.

04-03-2015, 11:10 AM	#18
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	Note that with the latest v1.11 firmware update to the K-3, TaV mode will now bracket by default using the ISO and leave the shutter and aperture alone. Jack

04-03-2015, 11:17 AM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by IchabodCrane I think the default of changing aperture does make sense. In many ways, yes. The general default behavior of the green button is to return the exposure to the program line or the "dumbed down" state. I have taught several people the basics of using their Pentax dSLRs and make a point this feature. To have it be different in M mode only would be inconsistent and potentially confusing. Steve

04-03-2015, 11:18 AM	#20
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jbinpg Note that with the latest v1.11 firmware update to the K-3, TaV mode will now bracket by default using the ISO and leave the shutter and aperture alone. Jack I don't remember, how did it behave before? Steve (...not a big user of TAv mode...)

04-03-2015, 12:53 PM	#21
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	It followed the P line shift setting.

04-03-2015, 06:59 PM	#22
Biggzie New Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 7 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot None of my film cameras does automatic bracketing, though my K10D worked the same as my K-3. Your K-3 brackets from the initial reading and does not change between exposures even if the light changes. I believe that the default setting for the green button in M mode on the K-5 is the program line. That is how it is on the K-3. I suspect that yours was moved to Tv shift at some point since that behavior makes good sense to many people who mostly use Av mode. Steve I haven't moved it with either of my K5 bodies or my K10 or K20 & yes I want consistent exposures even if the light changes in part of the image ... ---------- Post added 04-04-15 at 12:37 PM ---------- Originally posted by stevebrot In many ways, yes. The general default behavior of the green button is to return the exposure to the program line or the "dumbed down" state. I have taught several people the basics of using their Pentax dSLRs and make a point this feature. To have it be different in M mode only would be inconsistent and potentially confusing. Steve I agree ... That's why I didn't look there ... I wasn't aware that this would be the cause of my bracketing issues Im usually in either Av or M mode & have used the Green button lots ... I haven't dragged the K5 bodies out to see what they are set to yet

04-03-2015, 08:34 PM	#23
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Biggzie I haven't dragged the K5 bodies out to see what they are set to yet I will be curious to see what you find. With any luck this problem will be solved for you. Like you, I had no idea that it would affect bracketing, though it sort of makes sense now that I see it. Your use case is very interesting and maybe even worth writing up as an article. It never occurred to me to use a fully manual setting as the start point for Av bracketing. Steve

04-09-2015, 02:41 PM	#24
rodeknyt Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CA Posts: 47	Originally posted by Biggzie Yes that is the point, exposure is changing ... I have set the ISO, Aperture & shutter speed, then Ive asked the K3 to do a 5 shot bracket ... it is doing that, but I don't want the aperture or the metering to change. I'm late to this party, but I'm not understanding this part about not wanting the exposure to change. That is what bracketing is...changing the exposure between shots so you can either find one better than what the meter originally thought should work; or to make an HDR image. I think you're saying there is only one specific way you want the exposure to be changed between frames, but I'm not sure.

04-10-2017, 03:44 PM	#25
Lorrow New Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 12	Can we go a little deeper with this topic? I shoot raw and want to do exposure bracketing so I can do exposure blending in PS. I did not like my aperture changing either because it affects the DOF in my expousre. I do see that I can set my camera to AV and the aperture and ISO are locked during bracketing. The only change is shutter speed. While I want my aperture locked, I am open to having the camera adjust both my shutter & ISO. When I go the E-Dial Programming, I have quite a few choices. I can find no explanation about what each choice does. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

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