[stevebrot]

That way, your Liveview image will remain at constant brightness as long as you don't change the scene / ligthening conditions, although you will get longer exposure times than synchrononization speed. Whitin limits, this could perhaps be an acceptable work-around when you use flash?

That is an intriguing option...


Steve

[vonBaloney]

I'm wondering how the FluCard mirroring works in this regard -- if you are using a phone or tablet as your liveview screen, does it go dark? And can you just pump up the screen brightness on your device? (Does just setting the screen on the camera to very bright help at all?)

[Doundounba]

ROFL! Sorry, not meaning to be disrespectful. It would be nice, but ...

Don't worry, no offense taken. I put the words "dream of" a firmware fix to indicate I'm quite aware of the likelihood of this possibility... However, the change in behavior between the K-5/K-01 and the K-3 does indicate that this is an area where some code churn is happening...

I only have the K-5 to test -- changing the aperture does nothing at all to the display (as you know). However, changing the EV comp will in-fact darken or brighten the screen as you do so. Looks like the effect is restricted to the -2 to +2 range. Anything more extreme (it goes to -/+ 5) doesn't do anything.

This is very interesting. I will go back to test this on the K-01 tonight. If the K-01 does as the K-5 (quite probable), it means I could possibly use this to *brighten* the K-01 display using the EV comp, and then under the circumstances where I'm having problems with the K-3, I'd have, theoretically, a 4 eV brighter display on the K-01 (since the K-3 stupidly dims it by 2 eV and I can boost it by 2 eV on the K-01). This might actually make it worth my while to go back to the K-01 and its lower resolution sensor...! (EDIT: It occurs to me I could also use EV comp on the K-01 to brighten the display when shooting with reversed lenses... Nice!)

One other thing that you might(?) contemplate to try is to press the AE-L button before you stop down.

Intriguing option, as Steve said. I can't test this right now, but as I stop down, won't the shutter time increase in such a manner that I'll always get a full exposure's worth of natural light in the total exposure? Thus, even discounting possible camera movement issues, won't adding flash will always mean the shot will be over-exposed? The only exception I can see to that is when the subject is in near darkness and natural light only affects the distant background, so that if you were really shooting without flash, you'd get an exposed background with a black subject. Then as you add the flash, you'd get the flash lighting the subject only, and natural light lighting the background only... Might be worth a try...?

I'm wondering how the FluCard mirroring works in this regard -- if you are using a phone or tablet as your liveview screen, does it go dark? And can you just pump up the screen brightness on your device?

Haha. It would be interesting to know how the flucard liveview behaves in this regard, if only theoretically for me. Both because I don't have a flucard to test with, but mostly because then I'd need to be a two-man outfit! One person to hold the camera and focus by moving the camera body, and another person to trigger the shot on the remote device.

(Does just setting the screen on the camera to very bright help at all?)

That was one of the first adjustments I did when I got the camera, as I'd also done that on the K-01. I'm sure it helps, but my "corner cases" (where I miss a shot because of the dimming) already have that factor rolled in...

BTW, does the camera actually know when a fully manual (ie single pin) external manual flash (or flash trigger) is installed in the hotshoe? If so, (and to dream a little) it might be reasonable to send a message into Ricoh asking for a FW update with "no liveview exposure preview when using onboard or external flash"...?

[vonBaloney]

This is very interesting. I will go back to test this on the K-01 tonight. If the K-01 does as the K-5 (quite probable), it means I could possibly use this to *brighten* the K-01 display using the EV comp, and then under the circumstances where I'm having problems with the K-3, I'd have, theoretically, a 4 eV brighter display on the K-01 (since the K-3 stupidly dims it by 2 eV and I can boost it by 2 eV on the K-01). This might actually make it worth my while to go back to the K-01 and its lower resolution sensor...! (EDIT: It occurs to me I could also use EV comp on the K-01 to brighten the display when shooting with reversed lenses... Nice!)

I don't believe that EV comp works in M mode on the K-01 -- it is a "flagship" feature I guess. (But double check)

[stevebrot]

BTW, does the camera actually know when a fully manual (ie single pin) external manual flash (or flash trigger) is installed in the hotshoe?

No, I don't believe so. The sync signal happens regardless of whether a flash is mounted. The shoe is always "hot" with potential between the center post and side-rail contacts except during exposure. in the sense that the the circuit is open between center post and side-rail contacts except during exposure. It is possible for the body to detect when a generic flash when mounted and powered on (potential across the connections), though I don't know of any camera that does so. None of mine do except for dedicated units.

Steve

[Stone G.]

Intriguing option, as Steve said. I can't test this right now, but as I stop down, won't the shutter time increase in such a manner that I'll always get a full exposure's worth of natural light in the total exposure?

You might think so, but if you use the flash with the camera in M-mode, experience tells something different. Here is a fairly low-light example (taken 10 minutes ago around 10 p.m. my time - first total scene and then 100% non-resized crop) using the built-in flash.

Starting in M-mode with f-number = 2.8 and t=1/180s I ended up with t=1/5s (handheld!) at f/16. No overexposure, rather the opposite, and no shake / motion blur. I actually use this 'technique' quite often for handheld macro in the field.

On another note: One 'silly thing' about Liveview is that as soon as light levels fall beyond a certain - not that low - level, autogain plays its heavy hand and you will not, or hardly, see the dimming-effect, initially discussed, as you stop down your lens in A-setting.

You will have to experiment............

[Doundounba]

I don't believe that EV comp works in M mode on the K-01 -- it is a "flagship" feature I guess. (But double check)

You're right, I think. I'd forgotten that in M mode, the EV comp button switches the K-01's single control dial between controlling aperture and controlling shutter speed. There doesn't seem to be a way to access actual exposure compensation. Bummer. Maybe there's a K-5 IIs in my future...

[stevebrot]

You might think so, but if you use the flash with the camera in M-mode, experience tells something different.

I just tried it on my K-3 and my experience echos Doundounba's above. The rules for dimming seem to apply universally to intentional underexposure, regardless of how set. Unfortunately, that is exactly the use case he is wanting to use.


Steve

[ScooterMaxi Jim]

You're right, I think. I'd forgotten that in M mode, the EV comp button switches the K-01's single control dial between controlling aperture and controlling shutter speed. There doesn't seem to be a way to access actual exposure compensation. Bummer. Maybe there's a K-5 IIs in my future...

It doesn't have anything to do with flagship or not. In fact, the K-01 is considered flagship because it's a unique model. Many non-flagships have exposure compensation in M mode. On the K-01, it can be a bit frustrating especially when using TAv mode - which is set only in menus and not with a dedicated dial. On the other hand, the K-01 is phenomenal regarding its metering capabilities - especially if you use Auto highlight compensation as a safeguard. Certainly far more accurate in difficult situations than the K-3.

By the way, the workaround for compensating in M mode would be to simply change the shutter speed or aperture in M mode and track the amount of compensation on the screen. However, it's a bit more work if you prefer TAv mode - then you can switch to either AV or TV and enter your preferred amount of exposure compensation. The K-01 obviously is designed to make you think for each shot, and it isn't going to let you shoot away thoughtlessly (especially not at 1 fps in RAW). Many of us have a love-hate relationship with it, but the camera has made me a better photographer - no doubt. It will be my main backup for many years, and still preferred for some shooting situations.

[Doundounba]

No, I don't believe so.

Argh, bummer... Forgive my lack of the appropriate technical jargon here, but I always thought there was a little "lever" under the left rail of the Pentax hotshoe that was meant to help the camera detect when a flash is inserted into the hotshoe, and I also thought that this lever is the reason why the Pentax hotshoe cover has an "empty space" on the left side (to avoid having the camera think there's a flash on the camera when you put it on). That being said, the EXIF data when using manual flash certainly supports the idea that the camera doesn't have a clue that there's even a flash firing...

[Doundounba]

BTW, I was at a local dealer today and tested a K-S2 and a K-50 and they both behave the same way as the K-3. A Ricoh rep was also on hand, and he was unable to find a setting that turns off this "exposure preview", and agreed that the behavior is quite inappropriate when shooting flash, as did the store's resident macro guy...

[stevebrot]

and agreed that the behavior is quite inappropriate when shooting flash, as did the store's resident macro guy...

Yes, it would be nice to have this behavior switchable. Intentional ambient underexposure is a common enough use case for flash work as is live view for macro.


Steve

[Doundounba]

Reviving this thread with a late addendum, but it appears that there is a second workaround for the dimming of the LCD when shooting manual flash in liveview mode! (Thanks to Adam for suggesting it in another thread.) Instead of using M mode, use TAv with a very narrow range of possible ISO values. To do this, set the camera to TAv, then press Info, select the ISO range, and then use the front and back dials to set the minimum and maximum ISO values. For example, if you want to shoot at ISO 250, select a range of 200-250. Then exit from the menu and proceed to select your aperture and exposure time. The liveview LCD brightness should remain the same regardless of your aperture or exposure time choices.