Tracking focus for subject approaching the camera

slip · 11-16-2016, 02:20 PM

This isn't a question about settings but just wanted to know if others experience it as well.
I have the K3 set up for continuous autofocus, max frames per second. try it out at a ball game and it captured lots of action shots, mostly people running.
the other day my family was coming back from a walk in the woods and I thought it would be a breeze capturing them walking towards me. boy I was wrong! the autofocus would not track... I kept having to quickly lock focus with my finger moving quickly to the half way point of the shutter.
the conditions were actually darker at the ball game then were the walk took place
has anyone else experience this? you literally have to "wake up" the focus with rapid finger movement. I have used the back button to focus in the past but the camera would act the same

both situations used the same lens and settings

any opinions welcomed!

Thanks

Randy

**Scorpio71GR** · 11-16-2016, 02:37 PM

Yeah capturing action shots were the subject is moving in a lateral direction is way easier than focusing on an incoming subject. Pentax's AF system really lags behind here. You can do it, but boy is it tough. They make you work for it. I know this from experience trying to photograph my dogs running straight at me and I have a K3 too. Alot also depends on the lenses you are using. If you are using a star lens with SDM good luck. Fortunately for me this a rather rare occurrence so it doesn't really bother me too much.

**othar** · 11-16-2016, 02:40 PM

I don't usually shoot fast moving people or objects so I can't speak from experience, but two possible issues might be that:
1. Depending in your position during the game, the players most of the time might run sideways and not towards or away from you.
2. The clothes (tricots) of the players might where more colorful and therefore a better target for the AF system.

biz-engineer · 11-16-2016, 03:22 PM

Position tracking does not work well with slow motion because of the time interval for metering speed of the subject. AF tracking is for fast motion, but not too fast so that the lens AF actuation can follow. There is a range of subject speed that can be tracked very well. Outside this range (too slow, or two fast), AFC tracking does not work well. For photographing subjects in slow motion, either use AFS (if very slow) or use AFC single shot first frame focus priority.

slip · 11-16-2016, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Position tracking does not work well with slow motion because of the time interval for metering speed of the subject. AF tracking is for fast motion, but not too fast so that the lens AF actuation can follow. There is a range of subject speed that can be tracked very well. Outside this range (too slow, or two fast), AFC tracking does not work well. For photographing subjects in slow motion, either use AFS (if very slow) or use AFC single shot first frame focus priority.

thanks
I was using afc first frame focus priority and the rest of the frames fps priority.
of course the second setting doesn't matter if you can't lock focus on the first frame

When using afs by the time it would lock in, the subject moved just enough to loose focus
Does anyone else need to "wake up" the autofocus in order to lock focus with afc?

Thanks
Randy

KiloHotelphoto · 11-16-2016, 05:14 PM

This drives me nuts some days, I have missed so many shots because it will focus on the wrong thing but it can be done. I'm sure some of it is user error but it can't always be.

biz-engineer · 11-16-2016, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by slip

of course the second setting doesn't matter if you can't lock focus on the first frame

Ah... that's not my understanding. In FPS priority, the AF tracking works continuously, attempting to reduce focus error on moving target, but the shutter is not synchronized with AF lock. At least, that's the way AF tracking is implemented on the 7D, and from my experience with the K3, it's the same.

---------- Post added 17-11-16 at 05:07 ----------

Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto

This drives me nuts some days, I have missed so many shots because it will focus on the wrong thing but it can be done. I'm sure some of it is user error but it can't always be.

yes, the problem is, AF has improved a lot with the latest DFA lenses released by Ricoh, especially with the DFA150-450, it's like night and day compared to lenses released by Pentax. I'll not surprise that AF tracking is a hit or miss with DA560.

The Squirrel Mafia · 11-17-2016, 09:09 AM

Do'h! This is basically the same issue with my K-50. It's hopeless at shooting subjects coming at me or going away from me even in broad daylight. Even people walking at a regular pace towards me can be a struggle at times depending on the light/shadow. Forget about autofocusing a similar situation in low light. I have to manually focus the lens & maybe I'll get a couple of decent shots. I've tried all kinds of AF settings & combos on the K-50 too. It's probably worse on the K-50 compared to the K-3, though.

This is why I have to borrow my dad's Nikon D7200 on occasion. It hardly struggles at all when doing that type of photography.

I wonder if the K-3II with the latest firmware handles moving subjects towards the camera & away from the camera better? I've been on the fence about getting a K-3II or holding out for the next generation APS-C flagship with hopes of better AF. Hmmm.....

aaacb · 11-19-2016, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by The Squirrel Mafia

I wonder if the K-3II with the latest firmware handles moving subjects towards the camera & away from the camera better?

I posted a sequence here, as I said there I rarely just spam like that so it wasn't cherry picked but rather typical of what I get. I am quite happy with that level of performance, and in that particular case I think it was my error of panning and not the camera's fault that it lost track for a few frames. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/333366-af-c-tracking-test.html

slip · 11-19-2016, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by aaacb

I posted a sequence here, as I said there I rarely just spam like that so it wasn't cherry picked but rather typical of what I get. I am quite happy with that level of performance, and in that particular case I think it was my error of panning and not the camera's fault that it lost track for a few frames. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/333366-af-c-tracking-test.html

in my case there was no panning involved. if the subject is fast enough to have to pan for, it does a much better job then someone slowly walking towards me

Randy

Amoon · 11-21-2016, 03:54 PM

Supposedly, K-3II improved autofocus tracks objects coming towards the camera, better than K-3.

slip · 11-21-2016, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Amoon

Supposedly, K-3II improved autofocus tracks objects coming towards the camera, better than K-3.

I would really love to see Pentax make a full blown APS-C sport model. do everything well but put sports first. why sports? first priority would be focus.

Randy

**jpzk** · 11-21-2016, 04:42 PM

In the meantime, you might want to try this:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/236970-perfect-...everytime.html
I always had trouble with oncoming subjects ... I am still hoping that Ricoh/Pentax will one day have a better AF-C tracking system.

**clackers** · 11-21-2016, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

In the meantime, you might want to try this:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/236970-perfect-...everytime.html
I always had trouble with oncoming subjects ... I am still hoping that Ricoh/Pentax will one day have a better AF-C tracking system.

??

Then how was this possible?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/334240-pentax-af...ml#post3832750

slip · 11-21-2016, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

In the meantime, you might want to try this:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/236970-perfect-...everytime.html
I always had trouble with oncoming subjects ... I am still hoping that Ricoh/Pentax will one day have a better AF-C tracking system.

I have tried the back focus button... I still need to keep "waking It up" to continue to lock focus.
I know there are many wedding photographers that have no issues as they have more talent, but I am not sure I would trust the K3 with the bride coming down the church procession.

Randy

---------- Post added 11-21-16 at 07:10 PM ----------

Originally posted by clackers

??

Then how was this possible?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/334240-pentax-af...ml#post3832750

clackers were you able to keep the focus button pushed in without re locking continuously it as the subject came towards you?

11-16-2016, 02:20 PM	#1
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535	Tracking focus for subject approaching the camera This isn't a question about settings but just wanted to know if others experience it as well. I have the K3 set up for continuous autofocus, max frames per second. try it out at a ball game and it captured lots of action shots, mostly people running. the other day my family was coming back from a walk in the woods and I thought it would be a breeze capturing them walking towards me. boy I was wrong! the autofocus would not track... I kept having to quickly lock focus with my finger moving quickly to the half way point of the shutter. the conditions were actually darker at the ball game then were the walk took place has anyone else experience this? you literally have to "wake up" the focus with rapid finger movement. I have used the back button to focus in the past but the camera would act the same both situations used the same lens and settings any opinions welcomed! Thanks Randy

11-17-2016, 09:09 AM	#8
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,056	Do'h! This is basically the same issue with my K-50. It's hopeless at shooting subjects coming at me or going away from me even in broad daylight. Even people walking at a regular pace towards me can be a struggle at times depending on the light/shadow. Forget about autofocusing a similar situation in low light. I have to manually focus the lens & maybe I'll get a couple of decent shots. I've tried all kinds of AF settings & combos on the K-50 too. It's probably worse on the K-50 compared to the K-3, though. This is why I have to borrow my dad's Nikon D7200 on occasion. It hardly struggles at all when doing that type of photography. I wonder if the K-3II with the latest firmware handles moving subjects towards the camera & away from the camera better? I've been on the fence about getting a K-3II or holding out for the next generation APS-C flagship with hopes of better AF. Hmmm..... Last edited by The Squirrel Mafia; 11-17-2016 at 09:14 AM.

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11-16-2016, 02:37 PM	#2
Scorpio71GR Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,014	Yeah capturing action shots were the subject is moving in a lateral direction is way easier than focusing on an incoming subject. Pentax's AF system really lags behind here. You can do it, but boy is it tough. They make you work for it. I know this from experience trying to photograph my dogs running straight at me and I have a K3 too. Alot also depends on the lenses you are using. If you are using a star lens with SDM good luck. Fortunately for me this a rather rare occurrence so it doesn't really bother me too much.

11-16-2016, 02:40 PM	#3
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	I don't usually shoot fast moving people or objects so I can't speak from experience, but two possible issues might be that: 1. Depending in your position during the game, the players most of the time might run sideways and not towards or away from you. 2. The clothes (tricots) of the players might where more colorful and therefore a better target for the AF system.

11-16-2016, 03:22 PM	#4
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,237	Position tracking does not work well with slow motion because of the time interval for metering speed of the subject. AF tracking is for fast motion, but not too fast so that the lens AF actuation can follow. There is a range of subject speed that can be tracked very well. Outside this range (too slow, or two fast), AFC tracking does not work well. For photographing subjects in slow motion, either use AFS (if very slow) or use AFC single shot first frame focus priority.

11-16-2016, 03:48 PM	#5
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by biz-engineer Position tracking does not work well with slow motion because of the time interval for metering speed of the subject. AF tracking is for fast motion, but not too fast so that the lens AF actuation can follow. There is a range of subject speed that can be tracked very well. Outside this range (too slow, or two fast), AFC tracking does not work well. For photographing subjects in slow motion, either use AFS (if very slow) or use AFC single shot first frame focus priority. thanks I was using afc first frame focus priority and the rest of the frames fps priority. of course the second setting doesn't matter if you can't lock focus on the first frame When using afs by the time it would lock in, the subject moved just enough to loose focus Does anyone else need to "wake up" the autofocus in order to lock focus with afc? Thanks Randy

11-16-2016, 09:03 PM	#7
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,237	Originally posted by slip of course the second setting doesn't matter if you can't lock focus on the first frame Ah... that's not my understanding. In FPS priority, the AF tracking works continuously, attempting to reduce focus error on moving target, but the shutter is not synchronized with AF lock. At least, that's the way AF tracking is implemented on the 7D, and from my experience with the K3, it's the same. ---------- Post added 17-11-16 at 05:07 ---------- Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto This drives me nuts some days, I have missed so many shots because it will focus on the wrong thing but it can be done. I'm sure some of it is user error but it can't always be. yes, the problem is, AF has improved a lot with the latest DFA lenses released by Ricoh, especially with the DFA150-450, it's like night and day compared to lenses released by Pentax. I'll not surprise that AF tracking is a hit or miss with DA560.

11-19-2016, 09:27 AM	#9
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,726	Originally posted by The Squirrel Mafia I wonder if the K-3II with the latest firmware handles moving subjects towards the camera & away from the camera better? I posted a sequence here, as I said there I rarely just spam like that so it wasn't cherry picked but rather typical of what I get. I am quite happy with that level of performance, and in that particular case I think it was my error of panning and not the camera's fault that it lost track for a few frames. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/333366-af-c-tracking-test.html

11-19-2016, 11:50 AM	#10
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by aaacb I posted a sequence here, as I said there I rarely just spam like that so it wasn't cherry picked but rather typical of what I get. I am quite happy with that level of performance, and in that particular case I think it was my error of panning and not the camera's fault that it lost track for a few frames. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/333366-af-c-tracking-test.html in my case there was no panning involved. if the subject is fast enough to have to pan for, it does a much better job then someone slowly walking towards me Randy

11-21-2016, 03:54 PM	#11
Amoon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 155	Supposedly, K-3II improved autofocus tracks objects coming towards the camera, better than K-3.

11-21-2016, 04:04 PM	#12
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by Amoon Supposedly, K-3II improved autofocus tracks objects coming towards the camera, better than K-3. I would really love to see Pentax make a full blown APS-C sport model. do everything well but put sports first. why sports? first priority would be focus. Randy

11-21-2016, 04:42 PM	#13
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	In the meantime, you might want to try this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/236970-perfect-...everytime.html I always had trouble with oncoming subjects ... I am still hoping that Ricoh/Pentax will one day have a better AF-C tracking system.

11-21-2016, 05:02 PM	#14
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by jpzk In the meantime, you might want to try this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/236970-perfect-...everytime.html I always had trouble with oncoming subjects ... I am still hoping that Ricoh/Pentax will one day have a better AF-C tracking system. ?? Then how was this possible? https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/334240-pentax-af...ml#post3832750

11-21-2016, 05:04 PM	#15
slip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 2 hours north of toronto ontario canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by jpzk In the meantime, you might want to try this: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/236970-perfect-...everytime.html I always had trouble with oncoming subjects ... I am still hoping that Ricoh/Pentax will one day have a better AF-C tracking system. I have tried the back focus button... I still need to keep "waking It up" to continue to lock focus. I know there are many wedding photographers that have no issues as they have more talent, but I am not sure I would trust the K3 with the bride coming down the church procession. Randy ---------- Post added 11-21-16 at 07:10 PM ---------- Originally posted by clackers ?? Then how was this possible? https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/334240-pentax-af...ml#post3832750 clackers were you able to keep the focus button pushed in without re locking continuously it as the subject came towards you?