Sensor degradation

lotech · 03-07-2023, 10:27 PM

Does anyone notice any sign of sensor degradation over time ? I found my K3-I seems to be less sharp and 'pop' after near 10yrs. of use, it could be my lenses or some AF issue I don't know. I can tell the difference when comparing the photos I shoot lately to those I shoot when the camera was new, and the exposure seems to be slightly over now, the LCD blacklight is surely getting dimmer I need to push it to max to use in day light.

Medex · 03-07-2023, 11:04 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by lotech

Does anyone notice any sign of sensor degradation over time ? I found my K3-I seems to be less sharp and 'pop' after near 10yrs. of use, it could be my lenses or some AF issue I don't know. I can tell the difference when comparing the photos I shoot lately to those I shoot when the camera was new, and the exposure seems to be slightly over now, the LCD blacklight is surely getting dimmer I need to push it to max to use in day light.

Cataract?

lotech · 03-08-2023, 02:09 AM - **1 Like**

No, it's jealousy coz I can't afford new camera

kypfer · 03-08-2023, 02:26 AM

I've not noticed "sensor degradation" on any of my Pentax DSLRs, though a couple of them do now have relatively dim rear screens.
However, I have had to discard a couple of older zoom lenses that had developed haze/fungus build-up deep in the internals that caused soft and/or low contrast images.
A critical examination of your lens with a magnifying glass against bright light may prove instructional

**jersey** · 03-08-2023, 02:34 AM

Not on Pentax, but I had to replace NX1000 that I used before I got first Pentax cause sensor started to generate more and more noise making pictures slightly unreasonably blurry (JPEGs).

lotech · 03-08-2023, 02:45 AM

I don't know if CCD will last longer than CMOS, as I'm interested to get the K10D, my first Pentax DSLR was K20D just missed the last CCD model, before that I had a OM E300 CCD, as far as I remember it was very sharp.

kypfer · 03-08-2023, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by lotech

I don't know if CCD will last longer than CMOS, as I'm interested to get the K10D, my first Pentax DSLR was K20D just missed the last CCD model, before that I had a OM E300 CCD, as far as I remember it was very sharp.

I have no experience of the K10D … one reservation would be the rather less common battery, which is apparently getting difficult to find.
My experience with 10Mpixel Pentax cameras is limited to the K200D, which uses 4xAA cells, and the image rendition is slightly but noticeably "different" to either my earlier 6MPixel *istD models or my later CMOS cameras.
If asked for a recommendation for a CCD Pentax, I'd be inclined to suggest one of the 6MPixel models.
Inevitably, YMMV

Good luck!

cxdoo · 03-08-2023, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by lotech

I don't know if CCD will last longer than CMOS, as I'm interested to get the K10D, my first Pentax DSLR was K20D just missed the last CCD model, before that I had a OM E300 CCD, as far as I remember it was very sharp.

FWIW K100D Super I got in 2007 (and gave to my father some years ago) still does the CCD magic. Great little gem of a camera.
Viewfinder pitch black coming from K3III though

lotech · 03-08-2023, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by cxdoo

FWIW K100D Super I got in 2007 (and gave to my father some years ago) still does the CCD magic. Great little gem of a camera.
Viewfinder pitch black coming from K3III though

As far as I remember my K20 finder was reasonably bright so I guess the K10 will not be too far off, and the *ist D got tunnel vision.

Dartmoor Dave · 03-08-2023, 05:30 AM

I'm convinced the sensor in my Samsung GX-10 version of the K10D degraded over time. The raw files seemed to get redder and redder over the last year or so that I had it, and it was harder and harder to correct the colours. I don't know if I would have noticed it using auto white balance, but I always shoot off a fixed daylight balance and that made the issue more obvious.

I haven't heard any similar reports from other K10D owners, so perhaps it's a rare issue or perhaps auto white balance users just don't notice it. Looking back over the raw files from the years I had the camera though, I'm sure it was a genuine worsening of the sensor output.

**ProfessorBuzz** · 03-08-2023, 05:47 AM

Sensors degrade in different ways. CCDs tend to develop hot pixels and these can turn into bad columns - a vertical line leading from the hot pixel. CMOS APS may get dead pixels or hot pixels or even multiple hot columns around the problem area, as they have millions of transistors all subject to failure. Radiation damage happens to both - cosmic rays and background radiation will damage the silicon, and you'll get failures over time.
Heat and sunlight concentrating on the sensor can damage the microlens and filter array, as well as the silicon underneath.
Sharpness isn't something you lose across the whole sensor - that sounds more like dirty optics, including on the Ultraviolet / Infrared Blocking filter that is installed just in front of the sensor in many cameras.

**UncleVanya** · 03-08-2023, 05:50 AM

No issues here that I can see. My k3 is still putting out great results. I mainly shoot with my KP when using apsc however.

**ramseybuckeye** · 03-08-2023, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by lotech

Does anyone notice any sign of sensor degradation over time ? I found my K3-I seems to be less sharp and 'pop' after near 10yrs. of use, it could be my lenses or some AF issue I don't know. I can tell the difference when comparing the photos I shoot lately to those I shoot when the camera was new, and the exposure seems to be slightly over now, the LCD blacklight is surely getting dimmer I need to push it to max to use in day light.

I would guess that sharpness is not a sensor degradation issue, I said guess because I don't know that. I would take one of your lenses and see if you can adjust the focus, it sound as if something is off there. Or easier, test with manual focus and see if that is sharp.

**MossyRocks** · 03-08-2023, 08:58 AM - **1 Like**

As far as I can tell there isn't any sensor degradation. Dirt yes (I am probably a bit too hard on things) but if anything my shots have gotten sharper. However I think that is mostly do to improvements with the operator. Unless you do some really stupid things sensors tend to not degrade and by stupid things I mean shooting really bright stuff like the sun or high powered lasers (you can find lots of videos showing what happens when doing that) or you dropped the thing or were a bit to aggressive in cleaning it. The nice thing about solid state things is that unless they are really abused in some way they tend to not degrade. Moving electrons around where they are suppose to go is very low impact. There is a bit of a exception with flash memory but there you are really pushing electrons where they don't want to go and you eventually brake down the insulator in the solid state electronics. You may get a few extra dead or hot pixels but it shouldn't be a huge number over years.

Entropy happens but for non mechanical things it tends to happen at a very slow rate.

As far as new blurriness it may be that you forgot to turn image stabilization back on (I've done this a lot) or that there is now more slop in your lens(s) now that they have been used. I had one lens that wasn't in the greatest shape when I got it but 20 years later there was so much slop in the helicoid that the lens would move in or out a good 1+ mm, this was a 28mm lens so that makes a huge difference in focus. Another thing my be that you are now more discriminating, I know I have had that problem as my abilities have improved, especially with astrophotogrpahy.

**Bob 256** · 03-08-2023, 09:44 AM

Not in terms of sharpness (unless you have deposits on the IR/UV filter which sits in front of the sensor). You might check your AF system to see if it is working properly. Use Liveview and magnification if you have it to critically focus a test chart. Shoot and then do the same using AF and see if the sharpness changes.

03-07-2023, 10:27 PM	#1
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	Sensor degradation Does anyone notice any sign of sensor degradation over time ? I found my K3-I seems to be less sharp and 'pop' after near 10yrs. of use, it could be my lenses or some AF issue I don't know. I can tell the difference when comparing the photos I shoot lately to those I shoot when the camera was new, and the exposure seems to be slightly over now, the LCD blacklight is surely getting dimmer I need to push it to max to use in day light.

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03-07-2023, 11:04 PM - 3 Likes	#2
Medex Pentaxian Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,021	Originally posted by lotech Does anyone notice any sign of sensor degradation over time ? I found my K3-I seems to be less sharp and 'pop' after near 10yrs. of use, it could be my lenses or some AF issue I don't know. I can tell the difference when comparing the photos I shoot lately to those I shoot when the camera was new, and the exposure seems to be slightly over now, the LCD blacklight is surely getting dimmer I need to push it to max to use in day light. Cataract?

03-08-2023, 02:09 AM - 1 Like	#3
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	No, it's jealousy coz I can't afford new camera

03-08-2023, 02:26 AM	#4
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,596	I've not noticed "sensor degradation" on any of my Pentax DSLRs, though a couple of them do now have relatively dim rear screens. However, I have had to discard a couple of older zoom lenses that had developed haze/fungus build-up deep in the internals that caused soft and/or low contrast images. A critical examination of your lens with a magnifying glass against bright light may prove instructional

03-08-2023, 02:34 AM	#5
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,062	Not on Pentax, but I had to replace NX1000 that I used before I got first Pentax cause sensor started to generate more and more noise making pictures slightly unreasonably blurry (JPEGs).

03-08-2023, 02:45 AM	#6
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	I don't know if CCD will last longer than CMOS, as I'm interested to get the K10D, my first Pentax DSLR was K20D just missed the last CCD model, before that I had a OM E300 CCD, as far as I remember it was very sharp.

03-08-2023, 03:06 AM	#7
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,596	Originally posted by lotech I don't know if CCD will last longer than CMOS, as I'm interested to get the K10D, my first Pentax DSLR was K20D just missed the last CCD model, before that I had a OM E300 CCD, as far as I remember it was very sharp. I have no experience of the K10D … one reservation would be the rather less common battery, which is apparently getting difficult to find. My experience with 10Mpixel Pentax cameras is limited to the K200D, which uses 4xAA cells, and the image rendition is slightly but noticeably "different" to either my earlier 6MPixel *istD models or my later CMOS cameras. If asked for a recommendation for a CCD Pentax, I'd be inclined to suggest one of the 6MPixel models. Inevitably, YMMV Good luck!

03-08-2023, 04:22 AM	#8
cxdoo Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 1,150	Originally posted by lotech I don't know if CCD will last longer than CMOS, as I'm interested to get the K10D, my first Pentax DSLR was K20D just missed the last CCD model, before that I had a OM E300 CCD, as far as I remember it was very sharp. FWIW K100D Super I got in 2007 (and gave to my father some years ago) still does the CCD magic. Great little gem of a camera. Viewfinder pitch black coming from K3III though

03-08-2023, 05:04 AM	#9
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	Originally posted by cxdoo FWIW K100D Super I got in 2007 (and gave to my father some years ago) still does the CCD magic. Great little gem of a camera. Viewfinder pitch black coming from K3III though As far as I remember my K20 finder was reasonably bright so I guess the K10 will not be too far off, and the *ist D got tunnel vision.

03-08-2023, 05:30 AM	#10
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,890	I'm convinced the sensor in my Samsung GX-10 version of the K10D degraded over time. The raw files seemed to get redder and redder over the last year or so that I had it, and it was harder and harder to correct the colours. I don't know if I would have noticed it using auto white balance, but I always shoot off a fixed daylight balance and that made the issue more obvious. I haven't heard any similar reports from other K10D owners, so perhaps it's a rare issue or perhaps auto white balance users just don't notice it. Looking back over the raw files from the years I had the camera though, I'm sure it was a genuine worsening of the sensor output.

03-08-2023, 05:47 AM	#11
ProfessorBuzz Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 1,903	Sensors degrade in different ways. CCDs tend to develop hot pixels and these can turn into bad columns - a vertical line leading from the hot pixel. CMOS APS may get dead pixels or hot pixels or even multiple hot columns around the problem area, as they have millions of transistors all subject to failure. Radiation damage happens to both - cosmic rays and background radiation will damage the silicon, and you'll get failures over time. Heat and sunlight concentrating on the sensor can damage the microlens and filter array, as well as the silicon underneath. Sharpness isn't something you lose across the whole sensor - that sounds more like dirty optics, including on the Ultraviolet / Infrared Blocking filter that is installed just in front of the sensor in many cameras.

03-08-2023, 05:50 AM	#12
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,454	No issues here that I can see. My k3 is still putting out great results. I mainly shoot with my KP when using apsc however.

03-08-2023, 06:06 AM	#13
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,295	Originally posted by lotech Does anyone notice any sign of sensor degradation over time ? I found my K3-I seems to be less sharp and 'pop' after near 10yrs. of use, it could be my lenses or some AF issue I don't know. I can tell the difference when comparing the photos I shoot lately to those I shoot when the camera was new, and the exposure seems to be slightly over now, the LCD blacklight is surely getting dimmer I need to push it to max to use in day light. I would guess that sharpness is not a sensor degradation issue, I said guess because I don't know that. I would take one of your lenses and see if you can adjust the focus, it sound as if something is off there. Or easier, test with manual focus and see if that is sharp.

03-08-2023, 08:58 AM - 1 Like	#14
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982	As far as I can tell there isn't any sensor degradation. Dirt yes (I am probably a bit too hard on things) but if anything my shots have gotten sharper. However I think that is mostly do to improvements with the operator. Unless you do some really stupid things sensors tend to not degrade and by stupid things I mean shooting really bright stuff like the sun or high powered lasers (you can find lots of videos showing what happens when doing that) or you dropped the thing or were a bit to aggressive in cleaning it. The nice thing about solid state things is that unless they are really abused in some way they tend to not degrade. Moving electrons around where they are suppose to go is very low impact. There is a bit of a exception with flash memory but there you are really pushing electrons where they don't want to go and you eventually brake down the insulator in the solid state electronics. You may get a few extra dead or hot pixels but it shouldn't be a huge number over years. Entropy happens but for non mechanical things it tends to happen at a very slow rate. As far as new blurriness it may be that you forgot to turn image stabilization back on (I've done this a lot) or that there is now more slop in your lens(s) now that they have been used. I had one lens that wasn't in the greatest shape when I got it but 20 years later there was so much slop in the helicoid that the lens would move in or out a good 1+ mm, this was a 28mm lens so that makes a huge difference in focus. Another thing my be that you are now more discriminating, I know I have had that problem as my abilities have improved, especially with astrophotogrpahy.

03-08-2023, 09:44 AM	#15
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,378	Not in terms of sharpness (unless you have deposits on the IR/UV filter which sits in front of the sensor). You might check your AF system to see if it is working properly. Use Liveview and magnification if you have it to critically focus a test chart. Shoot and then do the same using AF and see if the sharpness changes.