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10-21-2013, 06:17 AM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
1080p refers to the short side.
And where do you get your precise information from?
Of course, my bad. Every 2 or 3 pixels then.

But what do you want to know, really? I have long experience with video from K-5 and K-01 and it is easy to see that the video has a narrower field of view on K-01 than K-5.

Both cameras do a sub-sampling on the sensor image when doing video, but K-01 do it from a smaller area than K-5.

10-21-2013, 06:25 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by StigVidar Quote
I have long experience with video from K-5 and K-01 and it is easy to see that the video has a narrower field of view on K-01 than K-5..
That's going to depend on your lens. 1920x1080 is 1920x1080

@johnmflores
I'm not entirely convinced tbh because we've been using GoPros on the outside of the cars my son and his mate race on bitumen and dirt tracks for a few years now. The GPs have no SR but the camera is mounted on a decent quality (Camzilla) twin suction mount. There is no crazy bumping and shaking at all. Perfectly acceptable footage.

10-21-2013, 07:00 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I see where you are coming from, but at least it could be argued that the software SR is silent (whereas the hardware SR isn't).

What defies all logic to me is that they made the button layout on the D-BG5 different to that on the K-3. This is a joke, only its not funny. I get that they don't have the width on the grip to exactly replicate the camera layout, but instead of moving just one of the buttons, all three (AF, AE-L, green) move around relative to the rear wheel.
The hardware SR does make noise, but anyone who is actually shooting film won't be using audio from the built in mic -- they'll either have an external mic (in which case you don't hear the SR noise) or a completely separate recording device. I don't know otherwise, except to say that to me the K-01 video footage with SR is almost unusable for anything, while the k5 is pretty decent, even with SR on.
10-21-2013, 07:51 AM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The hardware SR does make noise, but anyone who is actually shooting film won't be using audio from the built in mic -- they'll either have an external mic (in which case you don't hear the SR noise) or a completely separate recording device. I don't know otherwise, except to say that to me the K-01 video footage with SR is almost unusable for anything, while the k5 is pretty decent, even with SR on.
I agree with the above. In some environments for some handheld video, the sensor click is noticeable (it peaks at around -20dBa but is often fainter than that and can fade into the background noise). But the louder clicks if noticeable can easily be dealt with in audio editing software - if audible, they are easily spotted in the waveform. For amateur or candid videos, it's absolutely fine, even if you can hear them. For more serious planned work, as you say, you'd be using an external microphone or preferably an external recording device with a better sampling rate than K-5.

However, users of the K-3 should have the choice of which to use IMO - mechanical shake reduction or Movie SR, so we can prioritize video or audio quality. This new camera, Pentax's top end model, should definitely allow users to select the method of shake reduction and I hope that it does. Incidentally, I'd say the same about video - there will be times when I might prefer to record full video (not just interval) in MJPEG format not h.264. Choices please, and who knows, perhaps we will have them.


Last edited by Dave L; 10-21-2013 at 08:02 AM.
10-21-2013, 08:06 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
That's going to depend on your lens. 1920x1080 is 1920x1080
I don't think you understand how this works, no. The field of view depends on the lens, but also how large the sensor is. Video on K-5 make use of the whole sensor, but on K-01 it is a sligthly smaller area because they implemented electronic image stabilization and the area they use for video is moving around on the sensor. On K-5 they use the whole sensor and move the sensor around instead.
10-21-2013, 08:31 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by StigVidar Quote
I don't think you understand how this works, no. The field of view depends on the lens, but also how large the sensor is. Video on K-5 make use of the whole sensor, but on K-01 it is a sligthly smaller area because they implemented electronic image stabilization and the area they use for video is moving around on the sensor. On K-5 they use the whole sensor and move the sensor around instead.
Yes, so as I understand it, mechanical shake reduction captures images/frames of full size, within the bounds of the larger 'virtual' area traced by the moving sensor, whereas electronic movie SR captures cropped images/frames, each using only part of the area covered by a fixed physical sensor. I know I've basically repeated what you said, but it helps me to think aloud using different words sometimes.

But I hope we will have both, as options!
10-21-2013, 08:32 AM   #262
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Does the camera use only a part of the sensor area (IE 1920x1080) or downsamples to 1920x1080? or both?
10-21-2013, 08:36 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by sledger Quote
That's going to depend on your lens. 1920x1080 is 1920x1080

@johnmflores
I'm not entirely convinced tbh because we've been using GoPros on the outside of the cars my son and his mate race on bitumen and dirt tracks for a few years now. The GPs have no SR but the camera is mounted on a decent quality (Camzilla) twin suction mount. There is no crazy bumping and shaking at all. Perfectly acceptable footage.

Trueno's Last... - YouTube
GoPros don't need SR because the wide angles that they use minimize camera shake. The closer you get to normal and telephoto the more critical SR becomes. I tried to shoot video with a normal lens on a Nikon V1 (without any stabilization) and it was unusable.

10-21-2013, 08:59 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Does the camera use only a part of the sensor area (IE 1920x1080) or downsamples to 1920x1080? or both?
It uses line skipping or pixel binning from the whole sensor area (in case of the K-5), and slightly cropped sensor area (in case of the K-01 etc.)
10-21-2013, 09:56 AM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Does the camera use only a part of the sensor area (IE 1920x1080) or downsamples to 1920x1080? or both?
Anybody wanting to dig into this may benefit from similiar studies I did for the K-7 and D800:
-> http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/blogs/k7videoqual.html
-> http://falklumo.blogspot.de/2012/04/lumolabs-nikon-d800-video-function.html
Every camera seems to apply different subsampling schemes and it strongly affects quality which can be achieved in video. AFAIK, corresponding analysis for the K-3 is yet to be done and I have currently no plans for doing it myself.
10-21-2013, 11:07 AM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
GoPros don't need SR because the wide angles that they use minimize camera shake. The closer you get to normal and telephoto the more critical SR becomes. I tried to shoot video with a normal lens on a Nikon V1 (without any stabilization) and it was unusable.
Exactly, that's why I use a wide angle lens to shoot handheld and it works perfectly if you use some tricks like holding the camera with both hands or using the camera strip to minimize the vibrations. With closer angles a tripod is a must.

By the way, on your video SR does a nice job, but I can still notice some jello effect.
10-21-2013, 12:18 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnnyXD Quote
Exactly, that's why I use a wide angle lens to shoot handheld and it works perfectly if you use some tricks like holding the camera with both hands or using the camera strip to minimize the vibrations. With closer angles a tripod is a must.

By the way, on your video SR does a nice job, but I can still notice some jello effect.
Yes, but there are times where you don't want to be restricted by a wide angle. When shooting from a motorcycle, for example, the bike in front or behind often looks tiny due to the wide angle even though it is quite close.
10-21-2013, 01:37 PM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Yes, but there are times where you don't want to be restricted by a wide angle. When shooting from a motorcycle, for example, the bike in front or behind often looks tiny due to the wide angle even though it is quite close.
Of course. Though in this case, even with SR video will look shaky using a focal length higher than 50mm for example.

Unfortunately we have to shoot video without SR exclusively due to its fatal implementation in pentax cameras (except for the K5), it's quite a shame including that SR in an, otherwise, amazing camera and video options. By the way, you can get really nice colors and dynamic range in video mode. I love the cinematic look on the video pentax has achieved.
10-21-2013, 07:16 PM - 1 Like   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnnyXD Quote
Unfortunately we have to shoot video without SR exclusively due to its fatal implementation in pentax cameras
That's a rather severe personal opinion - one would assume that the Pentax/Ricoh engineers have a tad more R&D experience and expertise than pretty much everyone on this forum and have access to the very latest in technology advancements. One good thing that can be said about digital SR is that is can be upgraded by firmware.
I think it's good to discuss and ponder but rather pointless to be so negative about a system which isn't even released - continuing to find perceived faults and flaws in a product from a company who is apparently the choice of many at a forum dedicated to the PENTAX brand, is rather mind numbing to me (at least)

I agree that the mechanical SR is very good, though my only experience is with the K-7 (no noise from it during video either btw).
I was willing to accept the less than stellar video quality owing to the K-7 being the first step into dSLR video that Pentax made.
While I was confused about them introducing digital SR for the K-01 which has mechanical SR for stills, it was not this that disappointed me but rather the quality of the K-01 video which had not (to my eyes) improved much at all since the K-7.
As said, I tend to not use SR anyway so I'm not so critical of how SR is implemented when recording video, but I do trust that the people in charge are not going to sabotage their flagship product and risk losing sales with features that are second or third rate (or worse if you listen to some posters on this forum!)

I'll be interested in Adam's review as I will in others when the final retail version of camera is released. Until then, I'll take everything else said with a pinch of salt..
10-22-2013, 07:11 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
It uses line skipping or pixel binning from the whole sensor area (in case of the K-5), and slightly cropped sensor area (in case of the K-01 etc.)
There goes any hope of it competing w/ the GH3's supersampled sensor
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