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11-12-2013, 10:54 AM   #451
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Can someonw compare the SR jello effect in the K-3 versus the K-01? Is it better in the K-3 or about the same?????
Help please!

11-12-2013, 01:40 PM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
mjpeg is an obsolete, inefficient codec that should have never been used in the first place.

the fact that pentax bailed on it is a huge plus.
Only a direct comparison of K-5 video with K-3 video will show that - as with shake reduction, and sadly, even after the new PF review, we are still waiting.
11-12-2013, 09:27 PM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dave L Quote
Only a direct comparison of K-5 video with K-3 video will show that - as with shake reduction, and sadly, even after the new PF review, we are still waiting.
it is frustrating, because the review doesn't even list the bitrates that the video/audio is recorded at... I can't find bitrate numbers listed anywhere on the 'net, it's like pentax is deliberately hiding the specs.

if I could download a short raw video clip from the k-3, I could probably figure the bitrate out... can't even locate that, tons of stills but no video samples, just recompressed youtube garbage.

for comparison purposes, raw video is sort of comparable to a 100% crop.

explaining why codecs/bitrate is so important is a bit technical, you are probably thinking about things like jello cam, and why the picture pauses during a zoom.
11-13-2013, 12:03 AM   #454
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Member Vylen has uploaded two vids from the K-3. No PP. Straight off the card .MOV files

http://110.232.142.16/~vylencom/other/pentax/IMGP0082.MOV


Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 08-10-2014 at 10:12 PM.
11-13-2013, 01:08 AM   #455
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Member Vylen has uploaded two vids from the K-3. No PP. Straight off the card .MOV files

http://110.232.142.16/~vylencom/other/pentax/IMGP0082.MOV
And here's another one:

http://www.vylen.com/other/pentax/IMGP0144.MOV

Almost as how you requested - again using the 10-20 Sigma, with the contrast, sharpness and adjustments set to the -ve. Got the setting sun behind the tree in view... should push the dynamic range... or mess it up completely.. one or the other
11-13-2013, 02:00 AM   #456
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Wow, well under-exposed. No dynamic range left after h.264 encoding, Nothing much useful can be done with that sample I'm afraid.
On the positive side, I'm seeing less and less reason to spend AUD$1400+ to upgrade from my K-7 - so for that, I thank you and others on this forum who have provided feedback, and of course Adam's review.
11-13-2013, 02:24 AM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Wow, well under-exposed. No dynamic range left after h.264 encoding, Nothing much useful can be done with that sample I'm afraid.
Really? Maybe I messed up somewhere...

Although, I'm somewhat confused... when I boost the "brightness" a bit when playing back in VLC, I can see details in the bricks, roof tiles etc... the information's there... but when I do it in say, Quicktime or even iMovie, it looks pretty terrible... can't see anything (can you tell I'm not a video person with my "tools", heh)
11-13-2013, 04:43 AM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
mjpeg is an obsolete, inefficient codec that should have never been used in the first place.

the fact that pentax bailed on it is a huge plus.

still, like nearly all dslr video implementations, you'll probably be better off shooting video with a cheap camcorder than a still camera.
While h264 has it's place and use, the way it was implemented in the K-30 I'd rather have MJPEG. The K-5 shot MJPEG at 40, 60 and 80 Mbps, and at 60 and 80 Mbps the quality is _PERFECT_. Most other cameras that shoot h264, including video cameras, shoot at 15-25 Mbps, the highest I've seen is 28 Mbps at 50p on the Sony a57. 25p gets you 24 Mbps. And... the quality just isn't there. The K-30? Even worse. The encoder used is CRAP. And that is the main problem: The encoder. h264 needs shitloads of processing power to get good quality at low bitrates. I can compress my MJPEG videos to 3-8 Mbps, and there are NO compression artefacts. It looks perfect, much better than what a K-30 can do, or the Sony a57, or any other camera. Encoding happens at <1 fps, on an Ivy Bridge Intel i5 at 4.5 GHz. THEN h264 gives you great results. The encoders built into DSLRs or video cameras doesn't come close. Thus having the option of shooting MJPEG (which is great for editing too, and IIRC gives 4:2:2 instead of 4:2:0, correct me if I'm wrong) would be great. The encoder built into these cameras might be able to give good results at 40-50 Mbps, but apart from hacked Panasonic cameras...

As for better off with a cheap video camera? Nope. I sometimes have access to a Panasonic video camera, 2012 model, top of the line of their consumer series. Pretty expensive (should be at least K-5 price IIRC), Leica lens, ... and while the optical image stabilization is great, the rest of the camera isn't. It's easy to use... and that's it. The image quality just isn't there, and there are plenty of artefacts. And once it gets dark the image just completely falls apart. Or if there is a high dynamic range in the scene, with which the K-5 can still easily deal with. The colors are odd too, and everything is oversharpened. The microphone is pretty damn good though, far ahead of the K-5. But that is all. And don't get me started about cheaper video cameras.

11-13-2013, 05:07 AM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I sometimes have access to a Panasonic video camera, 2012 model, top of the line of their consumer series. Pretty expensive (should be at least K-5 price IIRC), Leica lens, ... and while the optical image stabilization is great, the rest of the camera isn't. It's easy to use... and that's it. The image quality just isn't there, and there are plenty of artefacts. And once it gets dark the image just completely falls apart. Or if there is a high dynamic range in the scene, with which the K-5 can still easily deal with. The colors are odd too, and everything is oversharpened. The microphone is pretty damn good though, far ahead of the K-5. But that is all. And don't get me started about cheaper video cameras.
Thanks for talking serious here, but come out with names please:
Are you talking about the Lumix GH3 ?Just say so, then ;-)
11-13-2013, 06:26 AM   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdj92807 Quote
Can someonw compare the SR jello effect in the K-3 versus the K-01? Is it better in the K-3 or about the same?????
Help please!
I've tried K-3 for just about 15 minutes, but with the SR - on the jello effect is there at 1080/25p. The video is slightly better than K-01 (witch I have and use for video).
When I switched to 1080/50i (SR still on) the jello effect is gone. Yes, the video is interlaced, but that's "fixable".
The bitrate of all the videos I shot (about 10) at 1080/25p and 1080/50i are 18-19 Mbits.
11-13-2013, 07:01 AM - 1 Like   #461
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mov clip example...
really LOW quality... a big step BACK before K5 and k7..that are also no so good for quality, but are also 3 and 5 years MORE old...
Sure never PENTAX.jap give extra functions or better updates on firmwares for "video" options.
Also for k7 and k5 later, never was made something, and was 1000 hopes, to see new funcions on new firmwares...BUT pentax-stinginess are enought famous !!!
In this new k3...1300 euro...inside boxe , you never founf again a chip USB cable... JUST now that k3 have the usb 3.0 mini... so you like? buy extra...
INCREDIBLE STINGY !!!!

and what about HDMI output ?! again like k7 and k5 no full HD output and no live rec. (like on ninja recorder HDD) ???

Last edited by gambadilegno; 11-13-2013 at 08:02 AM.
11-13-2013, 08:27 AM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I can compress my MJPEG videos to 3-8 Mbps, and there are NO compression artefacts. It looks perfect, much better than what a K-30 can do, or the Sony a57, or any other camera.
I have to agree with this, I like MJPEG.
11-13-2013, 08:30 AM   #463
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
And here's another one:

http://www.vylen.com/other/pentax/IMGP0144.MOV

Almost as how you requested - again using the 10-20 Sigma, with the contrast, sharpness and adjustments set to the -ve. Got the setting sun behind the tree in view... should push the dynamic range... or mess it up completely.. one or the other
Thank you for the samples.
11-13-2013, 08:32 AM   #464
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I can't find reliable specs, does the k-3 still shoot mjpeg?
11-13-2013, 10:09 AM - 3 Likes   #465
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As a 'pro' Videographer, or Cinematographer, and Ex-Broadcast Camera and Live Director, let me address some points, and quote back some comments.

First up, AF and SR are irrelevant to 99% of professional work, and are the second and third items turned off on any camera.
The first thing turned off are the chimes and beeps.

We use focus rigs, we use manual lenses, and if the focus needs to change during a shot, the 1AC will pull focus if the D.o.P. doesn't want to do it themselves.

Broadcast Cameras are not equipped with AF units in 95% of cases. News camera's never have AF, even the best AF is slower then an ENG Camera operator.

Turning Off the SR reduces the Jello/Rolling Shutter Artifact/Flag-Waving Effect to very minimal level, you just have to be able to hold and move the camera smoothly, preferably when using the widest lens effective for the application.
The only SR you will ever see used in Broadcast, is done in the lens.


QuoteQuote:

Originally posted by Alizarine This is the crippling thing about HDSLRs, which is not present in mirrorless cameras (e.g. K-01). I do think there could be an extension to this time limit in the K-3, given the more durable shutter mechanism (which may be a hint of an upgraded mirror mechanism too). I'm not a video expert, but if the K-01 can do it without the sensor overheating, then it's not really the sensor itself that overheats... but something else.
The only pro that need longer than 20 min are event videographers who do weddings, performances and meetings. Other types of "pros" those who shoot commercials, training, corporates, narrative etc usually only record short sections at a time that are edited into longer pieces later on. So a dslr could be viable option for them. So far no dslr from any mfg has been a good choice for long recording times mostly due to overheating issues and poor audio work flow.

The k01 will overheat -- I've done it along with the k7, 5dii, 7d and a few others.
No, it won't, and no, that's not what the time limit is about.

I have personally recorded for about 3 hours straight with my K-01. There are no overheating issues with the K-01 used within manufacturers specifications of operational environmental conditions.

The time limit is purely there because the camera us SD cards formatted in FAT32, which has a maximum file size limitation. If any of these cameras could run ExFAT, there would no longer be a file size limitation, and then the camera's could record until the cards space was filled.

Yes, it is Event Videographers who primarily record long durations, so do Documentarions, and those recording long format interviews, such as 60 Minutes or 48 Hours do, which are then cut down to shorter sections.


Microphones off camera - This is Normal in film making. The sound will be recorded by a Sound Recordist on a dedicated device, and may be fed to the camera as well, for ease of syncing footage to sound in Post-Production.
External Mic's like the Rode Video Mic that are mounted to the hotshoe are acoustically insulated from the noises in the camera body.
External hand-held mics can also be fed directly in to the K3, the 48kHz sample rate should make this sound more useable, for the times when you're working with a reporter.


The best thing for all of us Pentaxian film-makers, would be uncompressed HDMI clean feed output, and Compressed CinemaDNG with 'raw' dynamic range, recorded to ExFAT formatted UHS-1 SD cards.
I shoot with guys who have Alphas, Nikons and Canons, and believe me, they hate how good a product we get at price points their brands don't match.
And for them, hearing that the K3 does 50i @ 1080, is like a kick in the nuts.


On the subject of 'Raw'.
RedCode is not RAW in the sense that stills raw is. RedCode is Wavelet compressed video with the full dynamic range of the Red sensors.
Raw from ML hacked Canons in CinemaDNG, is a series of RAW stills played as video.
Raw from the BMD-PC is Compressed CinemaDNG, which is the raw dynamic range, played as a series of stills, where the files (not the CoDec data) has been compressed.


QuoteQuote:
For example, the Digital Bolex has been designed with a global shutter, but it's not incredibly famous.
So does the 4K BMD-Production Camera, but it uses a different sensor to the other two BMD's, the Rolling shutter sensor has 13 stops dynamic range (about the same as the K-01,.. ) but the global shutter sensor has only 12 stops.


QuoteQuote:
At this point I think that all we can do is wait for some video-oriented testers to get their hands on the K-3 and really put it through its paces.
Quite happy to volunteer if you can get me a sample in Melbourne - I'm on a live-streamed shoot on Monday, feeding bands to the web via an ATEM switcher from the Basement Apes Live website.


QuoteQuote:
5D Mark III = 90Mbps (I frame)
That's not what Quicktime movie inspector show - it says 45Mbps for the 5D3

QuoteQuote:
But the real new kid on the block below $1000 is the 10 Bit ProRes codec for video, such as offered by the Blackmagic pocket cinema camera. Another opportunity missed by Pentax.
That doesn't include lenses, or an MFT to Brand X adapter. Call it $1300 minimum to shoot with whatever lens you already own, and $1500 if you have to by an MFT lens.
And yes, ProRes would be almost as much of a killer feature as Compressed CinemaDNG.

Bass:
QuoteQuote:
do you think the A35-105 would be a good choice?
It's a good start. You'll use the wide end more often then the narrow end. The Sigma 18-35 t1.8 on APS-c will be just about be the perfect Video lens for DSLR/MILC

QuoteQuote:
Does K-01 have face detection?
Yes.

QuoteQuote:
You must have a different K-01 to mine because you cannot refocus during video recording with a half press.
Unless I have totally missed a setting I didn't know about..
Yes,... You can alter the function of the AE-lock button to AF in video mode.

Pheo:
QuoteQuote:
Audio metering etc during record seems to work well. Need to try the audio pass through to headphones properly tomorrow
Whats the Noise Floor like? lower then the K-01?

Mutters:
QuoteQuote:
I find it quite hilarious, and disturbing, that people are saying that no-one will use the K-3 for pro video.

Funny that. Must stop billing for my work then.
Ditto here, but mines a K-01, done live bands, short film, photo shoots for publicity of bands, nudes, motorsport, and been loved by the clients.

Bolt:
QuoteQuote:
When you deactivate SR in video mode, does the image return to a non-cropped field of view or does it stay partially cropped but not stabilise?
Stays cropped in a bit - see the K-01 firmware wishlist thread.

Vylen: Thanks for the sample uploads!
Sledger: very similar to where my K-01 picture style lives.


Lastly, on the subject of MJPEG. It is not an 'obsolete' CoDec, in fact, everything you watch on TV, shot and broadcast in SD or HD, has been passed through the broadcast system as MJPEG.
Admittedly, MJPEG at SDI and HD-SDI data rates, which is sometimes referred to as 3G, shortened from 3Gbps (not related to 3G cell phone systems,..)
Yup, 3 Gbps, or around 280 Megabytes (not Mega Bits like our h.264 cameras).
MJPEG is the worldwide standard for sending TV signals anywhere and everywhere, and it's not until the signal reaches the transmitter that it becomes the 720x576 (PAL) or 1440x1080 (HD) Mpeg2 or Mpeg4 that you receive and watch at home.
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